User talk:Dirk P Broer

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[edit] References

Copy edit from CR.42: "Both the Mushroom book itself and Amazon.cu.uk also list the two ISBN nrs. ISBN-13 is supposed to replace the normal ISBN in the near future.Dirk P Broer 14:30, 5 May 2007 (UTC)"

With the majority of published works from 1966-2007 only listing an ISBN (the so-called 10 protocol), you would only be able to find the ISBN -13 on published works from 1 January 2007 (some earlier editions also supplied the number), but it would not be counter-productive to list both. Again, in citations and bibliographical referencing, noting the ISBN is merely an optional note as it has more to do with locating the item in a bookseller's directory and really does not fall into a reference tracing. Most researched works prior to the 2000s, rarely identified the ISBN, it is now added (in practice) but there is no real need for it in a bibliographical record. IMHO User:Bzuk:Bzuk 15:51, 5 May 2007 (UTC).
The book in question is brand-new, I pre-ordered it a year ago on Amamzon and just got it delivered. As ISBN-10 is on the way out and ISBN-13 is on the way in, my choice would be to list only the ISBN-13 for this new title if and when only one ISBN is to be given. But indeed: the number of pages and/or words would be more usefull than the ISBN to identify a major or minor publication. Dirk P Broer 14:57, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 322 Sqn RAF

You are correct that 322 Sqn was NOT stationed at West Malling in 1940 - it was in fact during 1944, which I have now amended. Many thanks, Lynbarn 22:05, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

  • You may want to look at 322 sqn page nowDirk P Broer 00:15, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help

A mutual Italian friend requires some help in editing, he is now contributing to the Ki-61 Hien and Ki-100. I can sort out some of the grammar and spelling, but I have corrected this countless times. He continues to make the same mistakes, not capitalizing months, using measures such as "ltrs." and other basic errors. I have written to him by email, posted on his home page and asked for other help from the aviation group forum. There is also another major issue that I haven't fully addressed but that is that most of the submissions are POV and sound like they are copied from magazines as well as being wholly Italian-centred- go figure, but still, much of the stuff is useless but I don't want to just hack and slash. What do you think? FWIW Bzuk.

  • Mutual friend? I never had the honor yet to meet him. Could find most of his not yet properly cited entries in Francillon's Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War. His interest in the plane can well be explained by the mutual engine the Ki-61 and the Macchi C.202 had. That he likes to cite Italian sources can hardly be put against him, but some of his remarks are indeed very POV. I can e.g. think of more lethal Japanese aircraft than the Ki.100-II-KAI during the closing stages of WW2.Dirk P Broer 00:10, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
    • He sure is very active I noticed when looking up on Savoia-Marchetti aircraft..Dirk P Broer 01:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User page

Dirk, it would be useful for you to have a user page because where will you hang this? Wikiwings in recognition of your knowledgeable contribution to aviation articles. -Bzuk FWIW Bzuk 17:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC).

  • Thanks for the reward! I made a first try for a user page, there will be more to follow (I do e.g. also book reviews on Amazon.co and Amazon.co.uk, www.modelingmadness.com and publish at the yahoo speedskating mail-list). Dirk P Broer 00:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi Dirk

Hi Dirk! I just wanted to let you know that I've reverted the COBOL article to an earlier version from where you had done edits. This was because there was an IP systematically removing information, and your edits removed properly formatted (but incorrectly placed) references, so I'm going to go and fix all of the references in the article now, adding all yours back in. However, I would really love it if, since you know about the programming language, you could properly add the references to the article in the places they belong. Also, forgive me if you already know how, but the way to properly format citations using the footnote style (and the Wikipedia function of automatically populating the References section) can be found on the Citation templates page. Hope you don't mind! Ariel♥Gold 15:53, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

  • No problem, I learned my programming with COBOL 85. Glad to be able to document it before it gets lost into digital oblivion.Dirk P Broer 16:52, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Okay Wiki went wonkers when I was working on it, but I've formatted all the references, and just "generally" added them in, for instance, articles or books that seemed to be about the history, I placed somewhere in the history section, books that were about the continuation of COBOL I placed in the end. You'll see where they are, which book it is, etc. in the ref section, and if you're familiar enough with the publication, perhaps you could find a better place to place them. And I really appreciate you taking a look at it, as I'm honestly completely clueless about the language/history. Thanks! Ariel♥Gold 18:10, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reflist formatting

I saw your edit to F4F Wildcat, changing from {{reflist}} to {{reflist|2}}. What's the effect of changing it? Please don't think I'm complaining; I've seen this done before, and I simply wonder about the coding. Nyttend 17:40, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Saw this as I was replying above, and I'll just tell you that it is a 2 column vs 1 column. You can use {{reflist1}} which is the same as {{reflist}} (see that for more options), or you can use {{reflist2}}. Often a 2 column will look better, and read better, especially with articles that have many references. Hope that helps (and sorry to butt in!) Ariel♥Gold 18:14, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually the Template:Reflist2 will only work in browsers such as Mozilla Firefox and other Gecko-based browsers, and Safari though the feature is included in CSS3, so it should work for a larger number of browsers in the future.Dirk P Broer 00:49, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Maybe

That you call precisely when and how i write non neutral statements. Maybe you can explain me what hell is wrong with the CF-104, how i can be accused to not give sources despite i link the page of Joe Baugher, and how BillBC can say that i don't give sources. And finally, apart to learn something about the stuff i write -that resembles to you NNPOV- you also start to learn that my user page is not my talk page. Writing in the first can be called 'vandalism'. So go figure, about rules of wiki there must been someone more prepared than you to teach me, right?--Stefanomencarelli 12:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Australian A-24 Banshee?

See discussion page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:SBD_Dauntless#Aussie_A-24B_Banshees.3F I have also added more significant information about the A-24 Banshee and even uploaded an image. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBD_Dauntless -TabooTikiGod 12:48, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New References format

Hi, Dirk, noticed you are on a crusade to clean up some of the wonky reference formats. Good on 'ya. I wonder if you could standardize on using the following:

[edit] References

Notes

(if columns are warranted)

Bibliography
  • Bowyer, Chaz. Hampden Special. Shepperton, Surrey, UK: Ian Allan Ltd., 1976. ISBN 0-7110-0683-0.
  • Clayton, Donald C. Handley Page, an Aircraft Album. Shepperton, Surrey, UK: Ian Allan Ltd., 1969. ISBN 0-7110-0094-8.
  • Donald, David and Lake, Jon., eds. Encyclopedia of World Military Aircraft. London: AIRtime Publishing, 1996. ISBN 1-880588-24-2.
  • Green, William and Swanborough, Gordon. WW2 Aircraft Fact Files: RAF Bombers, Part 2. London: Jane's Publishing Company Ltd., 1981. ISBN 0-7106-0118-2.

FWIW, read these notes in the edit mode to see the actual wording. Bzuk 16:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC).

  • Right, do you have an actual example? Makes it easier to see what the difference will be using n;lkl'l'nlbufgoojpyuuiiopjphoh, I see you want capitals for Notes and Bibliography and you are not a real fan of reflist|2 (so perhaps not a Firefox or Opera user) I'd like to test your proposed layout on the Avia B-534, which still uses the appaling templateDirk P Broer 22:59, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Grumph! As I own almost all publications for the B-534 I can asure you that the two titles by Jiří Vraný are quite different.Dirk P Broer 23:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Whoops, a change in order in the Avia article- thanks for the heads-up. As to the split columns, it works well in some browsers and not so well in others, but I would use it when there are at least a half-dozen citations. FWIW Bzuk 03:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC).
Made the half dozen, great fun.Dirk P Broer 21:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
See that you now give an example of the wanted format, that's just the way I did it myself all the time (got mystified by your previous example n;lkl'l'nlbufgoojpyuuiiopjphoh, what was the semicolon supposed to mean?)Dirk P Broer 00:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
One last minor point, the note on language of origin is placed directly after the title. I was still a little fuzzy about that aspect and actually rang up my old library technician to get an exact corroboration of the bibliographic standard. It is used so rarely in an English language library like the ones I laboured in but we did come across some Korean language materials that had the tracings correctly identified and then she went and got out the latest bibliographic cataloging rules to confirm that was the correct way to identify the record. FWIW, see example below:

[edit] References

Notes
Bbibliography
  • Botquin, Gaston. The Morane Saulnier 406. Leatherhead, Surrey, UK: Profile Publications Ltd., 1967. No ISBN.
  • Breffort, Dominique and Jouineau, André. French Aircraft from 1939 to 1942, Vol.2: from Dewoitine to Potez (in French). Paris, France: Histoire & Collections, 2005. ISBN 2-915239-49-5.
  • Brindley, John. F. French Fighters of World War Two. Windsor, UK: Hylton Lacy Publishers Ltd., 1971. ISBN 1-85064-015-6.
  • Keskinen, Kalevi, Stenman, Kari and Niska, Klaus. Morane-Saulnier M.S. 406, Suomen Ilmavoimien Historia 4(in Finnish). Helsinki, Finland: Tietoteos, 1975. ISBN 951-9035-19-2.
  • Marchand, Patrick and Takamori, Junko. Morane-Saulnier MS 406, Les Ailes de Gloire No.7(in French). Le Muy, France: Editions d'Along, 2002. ISBN 2-914403-14-3.(second edition -No.7r- ISBN 2-914403-23-2).
  • Pelletier, Alain. French Fighters of World War II. Carrollton, TX: Squadron/Signal Publications, Inc., 2002. ISBN 0-89747-440-6.

FWIW Bzuk 14:17, 10 November 2007 (UTC).

Well, if it is a standard, I will comply, but personally I find it more clear to list a language (if other than English) after the whole bibliographical citation. It makes to title in question stick out more of the rest in general, and so might be of help to people who look for a book about the subject in their own language (and is makes it easier for English speaking people to identify books they might not be able to get so easily). YMTC, Dirk P Broer 22:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
The reasoning, if there is such, is that a user reads the title and determines immediately that it is in a specific language rather than looking at the end, in the last "tracings" which is the formal term for the entries. They are usually set up to provide relevant information first and that is usually author, title (and language used is considered here), place, publisher and date. The page number used and ISBN locator are considered secondary and placed at the end of the bibliographic record. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 01:56, 19 November 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Belgian Gladiator losses

Hi Dirk. Does the two books you cited for the heavy Belgian Gloster Gladiator losses have any info of how many Gladiators the Belgians lost, and perhaps what losses they incurred on the Germans? Manxruler (talk) 11:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Spencer claims they were eventually all destroyed, while two Belgians pilots (Sgt. Rolin in G-22 and the pilot of G-32) each claimed one aircraft damaged (page 32, 1st and 2nd column). Crawford also believes all Gladiators were destroyed (the last in straffing by Bf 109's of JG/27) and he gives the name of the pilot of G-32: Sgt. Winand. [1] gives additional detail of the Belgian use of the Gladiator in combat. Dirk P Broer (talk) 23:36, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Encyclopedia of Science Fiction

Hi there - I see you have contributed to the Encyclopedia of Science Fiction article. If I look on Amazon, I see where this book was released in Dec 1978 with an introduction by Issaac Asimov and with a Consultant Editor of Robert Holdstock. Do you think whoever has written the page identified only the second edition information in the main article? I would update it myself, but I'd rather get a second opinon before editing... Maybe I should put this on the talk page of the article or just edit without worrying - it can always be reverted. Npd2983 (talk) 21:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

  • According to me the article *IS* about the 2nd edition, and mentions the 1st as part of it's history, just as the 3rd edition is mentioned (and the CD-Rom version of the 2nd edition). BTW: the 2nd edition comes in two versions! (one with errata)Dirk P Broer (talk) 13:23, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your viewpoint. -npd2983 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.105.212.77 (talk) 23:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Published not publised?

Dirk, before I have to trail after you on your revisions to bibliographies, check the spelling on the "drop in" edit. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 14:18, 17 February 2008 (UTC).

  • Hi Bill, you lost me spelling on the "drop in" edit?Dirk P Broer (talk) 14:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Blohm&Voss aircraft designation

Please stop changing the aircraft designations from the correct BV to the wrong Bv. Blohm&Voss was the only aircraft manufacturer to receive two capital letters for the manufacturer prefix. Many books have this wrong. --Denniss (talk) 00:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Can you cite a reliable source to point out the wrongness of Bv?Dirk P Broer (talk) 00:05, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Original sources are hard to obtain but I have at least an image of an aircraft data card (Flugzeugtypenblatt) of a BV 138 clearly showing to uppercase letters. See also here --Denniss (talk) 00:19, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
OK, I stand correctedDirk P Broer (talk) 00:30, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ki-61 ref

I deleted the spurious link because it was in the middle of a completely different reference - (to Japanese Aircraft of The Pacific War)and hence spurious to that reference - the site itself is an appropriate source and is referenced elsewhere in the article. Iif it is intended to reference both, then they should be separate cites.Nigel Ish (talk) 22:59, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Probably the original author added the link because Francillon's book is mentioned as a source for Vectorsite (sort of meta-reference citing)Dirk P Broer (talk) 23:01, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Polikarpov I-180

Dirk, please check this article as a number of the references that you added have been removed as being from a "non-contributing" editor. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 11:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC).

  • Thanks, I restored it and send the person a mail about it.Dirk P Broer (talk) 20:13, 10 May 2008 (UTC)