Talk:Dinah

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[edit] Ted Mulry Gang

Dinah was the name of a song by Aussie rocker Ted Mulry back in the 70s.

"Dinah, Dinah, show us your legs Dinah, Dinah show us your legs Dinah, Dinah, show us your legs A yard above your knees"


[edit] Questionable content

I removed the sentence, "The tale thus presents a negative attitude towards intermarriage, but it also attacks honour killing." I am not a Biblical scholar, but I did some research into Dinah's story after reading The Red Tent (which is loosely base on her story). I don't know how "the tale" could present a negative attitude towards intermarriage when Jacob, the head of the tribe, actually agrees to the marriage. It is Simeon and Levi who get angry and slaughter all the men in the city. Also, the story does not condemn honour killings because God protects Jacob and his people after the slaughter in the city. The townspeople are angry, but "the terror of God fell upon the towns all around them so that no one pursued them" (Genesis 35:5). When Jacob prayed to God, God blessed him, told him to change his name to Israel, and said, "A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body" (35:11). God doesn't say anything about the entire city of men Jacob's sons have killed. This section of the Bible does not mention any punishment for Simeon or Levi, and they go on to father huge families. I don't know about what land they hold after that, though. You can read Dinah's story in Genesis chapter 34 and 35 --Fang Aili 05:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Although Jacob agrees to the marriage, none of his children, the progenitors of the Israelites, do. Although God protects Jacob afterwards, the children are nethertheless rebuked for carrying out their actions. --User talk:FDuffy 15:02, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Where does it say that Jacob agrees to the marriage? Are we reading the same Bible? Yoninah 17:41, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reorganization

Dear FDuffy, thank you for organizating the material better.

I have a few questions for you:

  • What does this mean?: Dinah is alluded to only briefly in the Bible; a passing mention in a couple of locations, and in a story known as The Rape of Dinah.

She is mentioned in the Bible, as you said in the first paragraph. Why the need for this extra paragraph? And what in the world is "The Rape of Dinah?"

The "Rape of Dinah" is the main name used for the story of Dinah's rape by Shechem (this should be fairly obvious). --User talk:FDuffy 19:46, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
This is not fairly obvious to readers of the Torah in the original Hebrew. It seems to me that much of what you present as fact is in fact inference from a superficial reading of the text. Yoninah 15:33, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Origin

This whole paragraph doesn't make sense to me and looks like original research. Could you please cite your source and spell out better what you're trying to say.

  • Popular culture

This is not the place to put in names of characters in books just because they correspond to the name of a biblical character. I left in the ones that had some kind of reference to the biblical character, however far-fetched.

This is a place to put ANYTHING encyclopedic to do with the word "Dinah". Whether or not they have any connection whatsoever to the biblical character. That the biblical character is the main content of the article does not mean that it is the only content. --User talk:FDuffy 19:46, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Then I imagine you're going to put in all the women named Dinah in the New York phone book, too. Why stop at that? How about every slave named Dinah, every movie star, chef, you name it... Yoninah 15:33, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Rescue Dinah"

From my reading of the story, Dinah is not mentioned after the initial rape. I have deleted the phrase "and rescue Dinah" until a citation is added with it. --Fang Aili 20:36, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

There is no evidence one way or the other that Dinah was raped or kidnapped by Shechem. As the text stands, it is completely unclear whether she went with him and had sex with him willingly or not. The only way you can claim rape and kidnap as fact, is by using apologetics. Raphjd (talk) 09:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Documentary hypothesis

I am removing the section on biblical criticism on the sources of the story because

Most contemporary Bible experts do not agree about which particular passages belong to which of the four principal sources, or even whether the original sources were written documents.[1]

Also Friedman's departures from Wellhausen have been criticized by his professional colleagues on several grounds, not least for ignoring all other models and all advances in scholarship outside his preferred documentary model

  1. ^ Harris, Stephen L., Understanding the Bible. Palo Alto: Mayfield. 1985.
I'm reverting your reversions, because your reasons are wrong on every point. Please learn something about biblical criticism before editing these matters. PiCo (talk) 13:30, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
That is what the source says--Java7837 (talk) 03:37, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Can you give us the quote please (here on this page)? I think you must be misunderstanding something.PiCo (talk) 03:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rape

<Edit Conflict> The story is commonly referred to as 'the rape of Dinah', but it not clearly a rape in the modern sense of the word, in which the sex must be non-consensual or with someone too young to give consent. The question of whether she gives consent is not explicitly resolved (or deemed relevant) in the Biblical text, and some commentators regard it as an immoral seduction or a violation of property rather than a rape in the modern sense. I think it should be referred to as violation and clarified in the article. Zargulon (talk) 13:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree with you on this issue. The text does not say the sex was forced on her. Nor does it say she was abducted by Shechem. Gen 34:2's use of "and took her and lay with her" does not necessarily mean kidnapped and rape. If it does, then virtually every sex story in the bible involves kidnapping and rape, which they clearly don't. Gen 34:2 "and defiled her." only means that she lost her virginity to a man that was not her husband. It would seem that there this article is written from the apologetic point of view. Raphjd (talk) 09:49, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested merge with Dinah in rabbinic literature

It has been proposed that the article Dinah in rabbinic literature be merged into this article. Please leave views below.

  • I support merging Dinah in rabbinic literature to the Dinah article.

If the Dinah in rabbinic literature section grows extensively I would like it it was made into a separate article again. --Java7837 (talk) 01:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Support - the other article should be a single section in this article. (It needs to have references from the relevant literature added, too.)PiCo (talk) 06:43, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Support, it would add nicely to the breadth of this article and is currently very stubby as an independent article, it can always be split off again if it gets too long. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 18:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)