Talk:Die Ärzte

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Contents

[edit] albums

They did not release 24 albums. see here for there whole discography. as the german wikipedia says correctly, they recorded: 12 albums recorded in a studio (including "Devil", a republished/remixed(?) version of "Debil" 3 albums recorded live/on concerts 40 "singles" (dont know how u call that, hope you know what i mean) 2 EPs 6 compilations 6 albums/singles which were only available for members of their fanclub and some DVDs and so on. However, i cannot count 24albums. how would you count? albums (studio) + albums (live) + compilations? let me know ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.123.248.1 (talk) 19:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Hm. Imo, they recorded 15 albums; Debil, Im Schatten der Ärzte, Die Ärzte, Das ist nicht die ganze Wahrheit..., Die Bestie in Menschengestalt, Planet Punk, Le Frisur, 13, Runter mit den Spendierhosen, Unsichbarer!, Geräusch, Devil, Jazz ist anders, Nach uns die Sintflut, Wir wollen nur deine Seele, Rock'n'Roll Realschule. Edited to 15 albums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.123.236.203 (talk) 15:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Triaeresis

Heavy metal umlaut indicates that this band actually uses three dots over the A in their name, a sort of "triaresis" instead of a diaresis. Is this the case? If so, it should definitely be mentioned here (and I'll try to figure out some way to torture Unicode and/or TeX into providing an example :). Bryan 08:20, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Never mind, just confirmed it myself looking at album covers on their homepage. Now for the tricky bit of figuring out how to display that... :) Bryan 08:22, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Looks like TeX can't handle it. Unicode does, in theory: 20DB is a symbol combining diaresis for three dots over the preceeding character. My computer evidently doesn't have enough Unicode support to display that yet, though. Bryan 08:42, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Actually, the third dot over the "Ä" wasn't there until they released their latest album ("Geräusch"). I'd say that it won't stay there for long, they often do silly things like that. The three dots could stand for the three members of the band, but there is no official explanation as far as I know. --Conti 10:29, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Ah. I'm not familiar with the band myself, I just came here via a link from heavy metal umlaut out of typographical interest. I'll update the article with that information tonight if nobody beats me to it. :) Bryan 15:05, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Maybe it would be a good idea to insert an image of the way their name is written on their last album? the german wikipedia uses the following 23:25, 29 Sep 2006 (UTC)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/6/61/Die_%C3%84rzte.jpg

A combining diaeresis followed by a combining middle dot works if you zoom in far enough: ä̇ produces ä̇. This is placed over a turned v (!) in the title of the album Same Day, Different Shʌ̈̇t. --Damian Yerrick (☎) 04:49, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rewrote history

however i'm German, so some formulations might be weird or something, feel free to edit ^^ information is mostly taken from the german wiki or the official biography (ein überdimensionales meerschwein frisst die erde auf)

Edited, and removed cleanup template. A couple of notes and questions:
  • A Realschule is hardly comparable to junior high, it's not like you go from a Realschule to a Gymnasium as a natural progression.
I would translate Realschule as "secondary school"--Phalanx2006 20:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
  • My sources (or rather source, the bio cited below) say the Senatsrockwettbewerb was in 1984, not 1983 as stated here. Which is correct? (If it's from Überdimensionales Meerschwein... then fair enough)
  • Das Beste von kurz nach früher bis jetze - marked as 'untranslateable', as is Runter mit den Spendierhosen, Unsichtbarer!. The latter can be explained, but does the former have some hidden meaning beyond "the best from shortly after earlier until now"? (Which still sounds weird, but the original seems weird to me too.)
I think it makes sense as "The best from shortly after earlier until now," when you consider that the name of the preceding compilation was simply "die Ärzte Früher!" (die Ärzte earlier!). Because they already had a compilation album that encompassed the time frame they call "earlier," the next compilation had to start at a time "shortly after earlier." Doctor Love 12:56, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
  • As for Spendierhosen, how does this sound: "Stop being so generous, invisible one!" (with the image of trousers being pulled down).
Added literal translation too. Also: a "barber" is for men(!), to 145.254.50.41: "dream come true" is a stock noun phrase, not a verb phrase, and is thus correct. Please also do not use acute and grave accents as apostrophes and quotation marks. That's not what they're designed for, and they look bloody ugly. Use apostrophes (') and quotation marks (") instead. Hairy Dude 01:38, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I like the Spendierhosen album, but I have stuggled with a meaningful translation as meine Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut. I like the idea cited above, it makes a weird kind of sense! Cwhdpkmh 21:48, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Manchmal haben Frauen... [ein kleines bisschen Haue gern]. "Spanking" rather than "beating" surely? Or is there a subtext in the song that I missed? The former suggests S&M, the latter misogyny.
The text of the song plays on the ambiguity of the "Manchmal haben Frauen..." statement. The narrator is appauled when he hears it from a drunk in a bar, thinking the man is suggesting that "sometimes, but only sometimes, women like to be hit a little." He recounts the event to his girlfriend later, who, by thrusting her knee into his stomach, reveals the true meaning: "sometimes, but only sometimes, women like to hit a little." The lyrics are mostly comical and a little kinky, but not a bit chauvanistic. Doctor Love 12:56, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I realised that after listening to it a few more times :-/ Hairy Dude 01:42, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
  • As far as I can tell "Frisur" is not really a French word, but "Le Frisur" is just pseudo-French ("The Hairdo")?
Hairy Dude 05:49, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I think that if anything, the translation for "Le Frisur" should be something like "Le Hairdo", except it wouldn't have the same effect in English since 'Frisur' is a German word based on a French word.--Phalanx2006 20:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Decided to embark on a full scale tidy this up. Hopefully I have not upset anyone. Included a few more transalations and debated about how to phrase the "Index". Cwhdpkmh 21:56, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Doctors or physicians?

I changed the English translation of the band name to "the physicians" on another page, only to have it reverted back to "the doctors". Now I see that the latter translation is favoured on the present page as well. Is there some sort of consensus about this? To me, physician seems to be the better translation. The band name isn't Die Doktoren, after all. Arbor 10:44, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

As a native English speaker(English NOT American) with a German father I can assure you that this would NEVER be translated as the physicians in Britain.

Surely it would be better to make the distinction between the English translation and the American translation. The word physician is considered archaic in English and is hardly heard outside of classic literature and American films/TV. If you must insist on translating it that way kindly amend the article to reflect the fact that you are translating it into American NOT English.

To me "the Doctors" seems to be a better translation than "the Physicians", but then again I'm German... but I believe the band also prefers "the Doctors", but I'm not sure about that. - Xorx77 17:57, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
"the physicians" is comptly wrong, that would be Die Physiker. The best translation of "die ärtzte" would be "people that are working to cure people but dont't neccesarry are medical doctors with a diploma" -83.129.28.6 01:38, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
I am afraid you will find that a physician and a physicist aren't the same in English. The first is an "Arzt", the second a "Physiker". Incidentally, I assume that this wide-spread misunderstanding is the reason for Germans favouring the translation "doctors" over "physicians". A physician, as your dictionary will tell you, is just what you are looking for: "people that are working to cure people but dont't neccesarry are medical doctors with a diploma". We need a native English speaker to settle this. Arbor 07:33, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
You rang? I've always considered "physician" and "(medical) doctor" to be synonymous. dictionary.com is ambiguous on this; it might be an older meaning. However, a physicist is definitely someone who does physics, and a physician is definitely someone who does medicine. But my limited high-school German always told me that "der Arzt" was "the doctor"; I'll file that alongside the solar system model of the atom. :) Vashti 07:57, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
Vashti, you high-school German is fine. Your "Arzt" is the person you see when you are sick. She may actually be a "Dr. med.", in which case you would address her as "Frau Doktor", but most people wouldn't really care about these things. "Ich muss zum Arzt" and "Ich muss zum Doktor" basically mean the same thing. But to be precise, an Arzt is a physician, a Doktor is a doctor, and a Doktor der Medizin is an MD. Arbor 08:14, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
"Physician" sounds like an Americanism to my (British) ear. It's certainly not commonly used to describe a ordinary medical doctor, except (at least so far as I have seen) in historical contexts. Semantically speaking I have no opinion apart from that "The Physicians" would be more precise. To add yet more confusion I once read a biography that used the German "Doktoren"...
My first reaction was to change it but then I thought, why bother? Either works. Hairy Dude 02:40, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Oh yes... on a related note, does "Sahnie" sound like "creamy" to a German ear? Hairy Dude 03:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, "creamy" would be something like "sahnig" in German because Germans don't form adjectives using similar endings to the English "-y". "Sahnie" sounds more like somebody who likes whipped cream :) --Phalanx2006 17:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm a native German speaker and in Germany 'Doktor' is an honours degree ("akademischer Grad mit Prüfung im Spezialfach"). You can also be a 'Doktor' after studying physics or chemistry or even philosophy. So 'The doctors" wouldn't be the correct translation. Then the band would be called "Die Doktoren". An 'Arzt' is a medic, a physician. Someone who studied medicine and heals diseases. So 'The physicians' would be the right translation. I don't know wheather 'physician' is old-fashioned or not. That should decide an English native speaker. And to correct some former statements: The German translation of 'physician' is 'Arzt' and not 'Physiker'. 'Physiker' in English would be 'physicist'. That's a false friend.

Speaking as a Delawarean with four years of experience in the German-speaking-realm, I prefer the "Doctors". "Physician" is just the formal term for a doctor in the States, although it feels like it is limited to general practioners. The term may be circumscribed to certain types of practices/fields. I wouldn't refer to an anaethesiologist as a physician. samwaltz 21:25, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Doctor is the appropraite translation of Arzt. In english, the word doctor almost always refers to a medical doctor. If the person holds another form of doctoral degree, they are given the title of doctor, but doctor is not their profession. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.102.196.19 (talk) 18:12, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Index!?

What does 'not on the index' mean, may I ask?!

The German "Index" is a list of media that are only to be sold to adults.--84.133.52.174 09:35, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
I was under the impression that the "Index" is more like a 'banned'-list because the Ärzte-song "Geschwisterliebe" is on the Index and the band is prohibited from singing it during their concerts... or am I wrong on this? --Phalanx2006 00:00, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

It's hard to explain,the German "Index" is a list of medias that may effect kids or teenagers. It's forbidden to sell it to people under 18, to do advertising for it or in this case to play the songs live. But they are not forbidden completely. TecDax

Incidentally, we have a Wikipedia article on EN now: Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien. Still needs some work, but a very good start. Arbor 19:43, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] among the best-known German pop punk-rock bands

I think it would be NPOV to say that "Die Ärzte" together with "Die toten Hosen" are both the best-known German punk-rock bands. Both by sold albums and popularity. And I know a lot of German punk-rock bands :) --62.143.10.85 22:16, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

  • I would go even further, and state that Die Ärzte are, after Rammstein and the Guano Apes, the most popular rockband in Germany. -- SoothingR 07:06, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
  • If we're talking about the most popular German rock group "in Germany," then I would say that it's die Ärzte hands down. Die Böhse Onkelz might come close, and maybe die Toten Hosen, although they're a little old. My experience has been that Rammstein is way bigger in other countries than in Germany, and I've been in Germany for a few months now and have yet to hear a Guano Apes song. --Doctor Love 22:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Neither Die Ärzte nor Die Toten Hosen are Punk-Rock Bands.
Die Ärzte, however, refer to themselves as being "punk" (I don't know about Die Toten Hosen) even though you can't really pin them down to one single genre on any one album, especially those from the 1990s and on. I would argue that one can definitely detect a punk-rock strain in many of their songs, however. ----Phalanx2006 23:57, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


I`m from Austria (next to Germany) and Rammstein is not a punk-rock band it`s kind of metal-rock or so but deffinitly NOT punk so you can't say they are a more popular punk/rock band than "die ärzte" Guano Apes are not as famous as Die Ärzte or Die toten Hosen now, because they spilt up I think DÄ started as a punk band but the develpod away from this and now they are kidn of punk-rock and pop some (old) albums sounds like punk (1,2,3,4 bullenstaat, 5,6,7,8 bullenstaat). but you can`t say they are punk....and Die Böhsen Onkelz I wouldn`t say the are more famous, because punk has nothing to do with racism-lyrics but Die Böhsen Onkelz wrote much such lyrics and were kind of Rechtsrock--193.171.131.243 20:44, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] name choice

The band chose the name "Die Ärzte" because, to their knowledge, no other band in Germany or 
anywhere used the letter Ä, and when they went into a store they missed this letter.

This stands in contradiction to the German Wikipedia. There you can find:

Laut offizieller Biografie wählten sie den Namen „Die Ärzte“ aus keinem bestimmten Grund, auch wenn es 
immer wieder Theorien über die Entstehung gibt, etwa dass Bela in Plattengeschäften immer eine
Band mit dem Anfangsbuchstaben „Ä“ vermisste.

in English:
"According to the official Biography they chose the Name for no specific reason, although there are theories over the origin. One of them says that Bela has always been missing a band with the intial letter Ä in the stores."

On the German wikipedia there is even a source cited. Could somebody check this?

[edit] Merger proposed (Soilent Grün)

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The result was: Merge Soilent Grün into Die Ärzte. --B. Wolterding 08:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I propose to merge the content of Soilent Grün into here, since the notability of that article has been questioned. In fact, since Soilent Grün have published only one album, they fail this criterion in WP:MUSIC. However, they do qualify for inclusion since some of their members later founded Die Ärzte. By WP:MUSIC #6, the best option would probably be to merge the information here.

Please add your comments below. Proposed as part of the Notability wikiproject. --B. Wolterding 11:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Seems reasonable to me. Hairy Dude 12:21, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


[edit] General Cleanup

The article seems to be mainly a translation of the German article. I'm going to rework the whole article a bit, remove the trivia section and improve some bad translations. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Buxbaum666 (talk • contribs) 15:42, August 22, 2007 (UTC).

Woops, sorry for not signing! I was in a hurry ;) --Buxbaum666 19:31, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Die Ärzte.png

Image:Die Ärzte.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 20:10, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:2003 farin unplugged gross.jpg

Image:2003 farin unplugged gross.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 20:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] International success

I know for a fact that Die Ärtzen are used in German classes to help teach German since a song of theirs(Junge) was used in my German class just the other day. How do we officially confirm this fact so that it no longer has the stupid "citation needed" tag next to it? Do I have to scan in the handout used in class? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.223.53 (talk) 04:48, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd say go ahead and remove the tag. Some Wikipedians just love to go overboard with the "citation needed" frenzy, apparently failing to understand the concept of "common knowledge." You seriously don't have to provide references for every tiny bit of information, especially not when it plausably is a widely known fact. Which I'd argue applies in this case. 91.33.210.69 (talk) 10:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Well there was a video that was used with my college textbook if that helps as a definite source. The book is Kontakte, but I am not sure which chapter the video was for. It is probably on the mcgraw hill website somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.102.196.19 (talk) 18:16, 2 May 2008 (UTC)