Talk:Dick Bavetta

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[edit] POV

Sorry, but this page is full of nonsense - it could have been written by DB himself! I've edited the first paragraph and removed the bit about him being "one of the best officials in the league" - all POV.

Pud1m 01:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

It looks pretty good right now, seems neutral to me. RyguyMN 16:29, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1998 NBA Finals shot clock call

I want to continue to press for inclusion of this. It may POSSIBLY violate NPOV (although I'd argue that my reference on him being booed in Salt Lake mitigates this), but it CERTAINLY does not violate notability. I maintain that it's EXTREMELY notable, was a defining moment in Bavetta's career, fed into massive conspiracy theories, and was, in fact, arguably one of the worst calls in NBA history. To say that it was "just another missed call" and argue that "we can't include every bad call made by every referee" is fallacious, since it was by any standard not "just another missed call." I'd like more input on this, as the decision to exclude it seems arbitrary and of itself rather POV. The article as is reads like a Bavetta fan page, and this needs to be included for balance, if nothing else. MahlerFan 03:16, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The controversy over the legality of Michael Jordan's final shot seems to be more notable than this shot clock violation based on the amount of press converage on the topic. I've seen many games where the shot clock expired and a violation wasn't called or in football when the play clock ran out and no penality was called. What's the big deal over a shot clock violation midway through the game? What am I missing here? This had no direct impact on the outcome of the game. When I think of notable controversial games, the tuck rule game comes to mind or the immaculate reception. These are games where a call made an impact on the game since both instances came towards the conclusion of the game. Saying that it fed into conspiracy theories is not a valid argument for inclusion into this article because this is merely speculation (a violation of WP:CRYSTAL) and is un-encyclopedic. This article presents a fair view of the subject. Inclusion of this shot clock call is WP:NPOV and would be something that an angry Jazz fan would include in a blog. Noting that this is the #1 worst call in this Bavetta bio certainly violates NPOV. Does he get booed outside of Salt Lake? I don't believe so, which minimizes the notability. What do others think? RyguyMN 22:27, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how it can not be notable. I strongly disagree with you that it had no direct impact on the game. In a CHAMPIONSHIP-deciding game (there's your notability right there) that was decided by one point, a call that made a three-point difference most certainly and definitely had a "direct" impact on the game. It doesn't matter when the call occurred. It was a bad, proven missed call that made a point difference that would have changed the outcome. Sure there were "many games" where the shot clock expired and a violation wasn't called, but how many of those were in championship-deciding games decided by one point? I think that's what you're missing, quite frankly. It's a fact that the call was missed, important, and controversial, so how is it POV? Inclusion is merely including a fact--a notable nadir in Bavetta's career that should be mentioned along with the high points. I fail to see how mere inclusion of a fact (it's provable that the call was missed) is POV. I gave you a Denver newspaper that mentioned the call nine years later. I think that a newspaper in a city whose basketball team is a primary Jazz rival mentioning the call nine years later is evidence of notability. In essence, if this call isn't a notable part of Bavetta's career, then I guess I don't understand notability. I think your argument that it didn't have a direct impact on the game is spurious at best. It's simple math that it had an impact on the game. I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere (can't cite where right now) that this call and the later one in the same game on the Ron Harper shot had some impact on the later decision to allow video review of close shot clock calls. It really should be included. This is MahlerFan, I think I might be logged out.

128.138.42.218 23:25, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Bavetta didn't lose the game for the Jazz. Your argument sounds like he is to blame for the loss, which violates POV. Players ultimately decide the games, there's always good or bad calls along the way. The Denver news is the first source to mention this call, so it doesn't seem to be highly notable. Now if you want to talk 1985 World Series with Don Denkinger , that's notability. If you can write a piece noting it was controversial, but not to blame, then go for it, but I think to note it is nitpicking. You could go back to past Finals and note block/charge calls that went the other way where a game was decided by one point. Should these be noted too? RyguyMN 05:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tax Evasion/Road winning pctg.

Was Bavetta among those who got busted in the 90s for tax evasion? Some refs were exchanging their first class plane tickets for coach and pocketing the cash. I seem to remember Bavetta being involved, but I'm not sure.

Also, in the history of the NBA, the road team wins the highest percentage of the time when the game is ref'd by Bavetta. I should find a source for this stuff...

Smackalot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.9.250.35 (talk) 05:14, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

No, Bavetta was not part of the tax evasion scandal during that time. Also, just because Bavetta is known for a high road team victory percentage doesn't provide any meaningful conclusions. There are other factors involved as well like a weaker talented home team playing a more talented road team. Any conclusions draw is mere speculation. RyguyMN (talk) 02:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)