Talk:Diamond

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Contents

[edit] Comment 0

The current version of the article is, excuse me, a mess. It devoids bearing a star for many reasons including confusing statements, inconsistent semantics and bias. 66.46.103.18 21:08, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment 1

I heard that the DTC assortment book was modified in 2006 and is now around 14,000 price points rather than 16,000. The DTC's Russian intake decreases every year due to its agreement with the European Union competition authorities so its market share has presumably gone down (it closed a couple of mines in ZA and the new mine in Snap Lake hasn't started up yet).

[edit] Hardness

I have read elsewhere that dentine (tooth enamel) is harder than diamond. Is there any truth in this assertion? --212.196.144.1 (talk) 10:40, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Archives

I archived the talk page (First 5 archives). The talk page was getting way too long. Please help fix any mistakes I might have made. Each archive is about 32 kilobytes long. Abby724 23:34, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comment 2

If you watch the History Channel about Blood Diamonds, you'd know that we must help all people immediately by giving every person a Guaranteed Income (RFID) because they had their hands cut off, all for diamonds! USA has to lead the world in ending the wage system because it is slavery! God is putting this in all people's hearts to end the wage so now we just have to do it & help millions of starving children & adults worldwide. It's very urgent! It's the only way to end all of these horrible crimes! Sundiiiaaa 03:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

"Helping people" by giving them "a Guaranteed Income (RFID)" is beyond the scope of an encyclopedia--Wikipedia solicits donations, it doesn't give them. Please search for NGOs (Non-governmental organizations) or advocacy groups that interest you to assist in spreading your message, if it really is your intention to "end all of these horrible crimes." Speaking to a small group of editors on Wikipedia is a waste of effort, when there are solid advocacy groups with large audiences available. If you would like to add factual material about diamonds and their economics to the article, please discuss it here first, provide references, and join in making the Wikipedia article on diamonds useful and relevant. Thanks, KP Botany 01:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok. But shouldn't encyclopedia's say the truth? The wage is slavery, & employees are slaves, & corporations are slave plantations? I think that would help us to quickly end world poverty. Maybe someone could compare a corporation to a slave plantation, & mention that many slaves were able to BUY their own freedom so they were obviously paid, but not much, just like most people today (McDonalds, Wal-Mart etc)? Can we talk about this in a sandbox (where is it)? Sundiiiaaa 18:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC) 1/11/07

[edit] Value

If Diamonds are so valueable compared to weight, why do banks refuse to keep their reserves in diamonds, but insist on Gold? It would make more sense to keep something more smaller and compact. Possibly because diamonds are continuously being made underground, whereas Gold has limited supplies, making Gold in the long run more valuable. --78.86.117.164 23:46, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Possibly because diamonds really *aren't* that valuable - good luck reselling a diamond for even half the price you got it for. More to the point, diamonds are carbon, carbon isn't valuable, and we're getting better at manufacturing arbitrary molecules all the time. Twenty years from now on diamondoid might be a common building material. Gold, on the other hand, is a type of atom - while it can theoretically be produced via certain alchemical uses of radiation, that would be considerably more expensive than the resulting (radiactive) gold. Anaholic 03:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe there is another reason. While gold, as a "atom" as you say it, can be melted and form uniform pieces and stack up neatly in a vault, a bunch of loss diamond is not exactly the easiest thing to keep a inventory of. Also, diamond's value is determined on a stone to stone bases, not merely by weight(there are a lot of other factors such as color and shape). Thus there is no way to store a large amount of it and keep track of it all(values and all that). It devalue the diamond a lot if you sell it as a bunch due to possible valueing diffrnece compared to as individual stones so it's not smart. So the only easy to keep, value consistent ones are the man made ones--ones that worth nothing compared with gold because they are just pretty and hard charcoal. Note: you can't exactly melt and reform diamonds and keeping cut diamonds orderly like in a jewel store actully take ALOT of space. Besides that, everytime a diamond is cut, it usually loss valus beyond the intial cutting, so makeing them stackable or uniform in size is not economical.(68.251.251.7 00:25, 6 November 2007 (UTC))

Good idea, but consider that diamonds are unstable forms of carbon and will disintegrate over time. The disintegration is very slow at room temperature but can be extremely accelerated depending on what other materials a diamond is exposed to beyond approximately 700 degrees Celsius. Beyond about 1100 degrees Celsius your diamonds will either fall apart into a dusty black form (a modification) of carbon known as graphite or, if Oxygen is present, simply burn similar to a log of wood. Graphite is the only form of Carbon that is stable under (air) pressure and temperatures that humans would find comfortable. Gold on the other hand is, well, merely Gold. It is a chemical element just like carbon. Its value arises not from a specific form or modification of the element. In comparison, graphite is basically worthless for all uses of diamonds.

Consider further that if you broke a large diamond into pieces, the sum total of the value of the pieces would be less than the value of the whole diamond. In contrast, two bulk pieces of the same amount of refined gold are (essentially) worth the same as another piece of Gold equal in amount of the sum total of the two pieces.

Consider even further that mankind has developed technology to make synthetic/artificial diamonds in gem-quality of sufficient size in an economic fashion and that so made diamonds have almost reached or, for certain colored diamonds, surpassed the quality of diamonds formed by mother nature. While we know of physical processes that can turn (with lots of "help") certain elements into others, for example, Uranium into Lead, or Hydrogen into Helium, generating Gold that way would be a costly undertaking that is far from being technically and even further from being economically feasible.

Besides that, pieces of Gold may be as easily stolen as diamonds.

These considerations are just examples which do affect the value of diamonds in various ways which will hopefully make it clear why banks prefer to keep their reserves in Gold. 66.46.103.18 20:54, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Diamond Sutra

Maybe a link to Diamond Sutra should be included in the article?--RF 21:14, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The article seems to infer that the Diamond Sutra is a Tibetan Buddhist text. It is not. Although used in Tibetan Buddhism, the Diamond Sutra is in fact a Mahayana Buddhist text.

Also, Edward Conze suggests that "vajra" is misintrepeted as "diamond" in the title of the text and in fact should be translated as "thunderbolt" (a secondary meaning of vajra). He may be correct but the translation of vajra as diamond has been in use for centuries so the reference here does indeed make sense.

[edit] Why no mention of USSR?

I think it should be mentioned that the USSR created mechines that could actually MAKE yellow diamonds (the rarest of them all). Sadly they have been dismantled but some have been restored and in use outside Russia.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.151.94.15 (talk • contribs)

hmmm... yellow rare? chuckle... An article on lab created diamonds should include this yes. SauliH 17:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


-Yellow and brown fancy colored diamonds are the most common colored ones. It's the pink, blue, green and red diamonds that are very rare.Garfieldt 12:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

-Actually, from what I understand:

  • yes, obvious yellowish tinted diamonds that range from N to Z on the diamond color scale are the most common. I believe only 1% of all diamonds are colorless enough (D-J) to be gem quality.
  • BUT, once the yellow color becomes more intense beyond Z on the grading scale and is evenly saturated to what is called a "fancy yellow" (especially "fancy vivid" or "fancy intense") then they are actually more rare than white diamonds when natural. Alhough yes, fancy colors other than yellow are even more rare than fancy yellow.
  • yes, USSR created HPHT machines that can make real fancy colored diamonds (not diamond simulants but real diamonds!)
  • BUT, they weren't the first to do so AND they weren't dismantled. Gemesis diamond down in Florida have bought the machines and still make fancy colored diamonds with them today, they can make any color diamond you want except colorless (the only ones that can make real colorless diamonds is newcomer Apollo Diamond.)

-Fromos 01:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Talk about vandalism.

Somebody should fix that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.157.66 (talk • contribs)

[edit] References

All of the statements made in the "Symbolism and the occult" section are under the one reference I added a while back, "Encyclopedia of the Occult", Spence, Lewis, 1960. All five of them are linked the the reference below, but should the whole section have that one reference instead? ~ PHDrillSergeant...§ 16:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

See the Optical properties - this is ambiguous - do most diamonds fluoresce of not the middle of the paragraph says not the end says do. I'm not sure what the original contributor intended to say? Are you monitoring? --Dayorkmd 00:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)DYork

[edit] Contradictory sentence on diamond fluorescence

The article reads:

"Most diamonds show no fluorescence although colored diamonds show a wider range of fluorescence than the blue fluorescence normally observed in clear diamonds."

Hmmm. "Most diamonds show no fluorescence" but "blue fluorescence [is] normally observed in clear diamonds"  ?????

I don't know from diamonds, but I know a contradiction when I see one. Someone who knows diamonds needs to fix this.Daqu 04:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


I remember reading that artificially created diamonds fluoresce but natural ones don't, I'll look into this a little bit later. BebopBob 04:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Natural diamonds can and do flouresce. It is a characteristic that can be exhibited in diamonds. Flouresence is used to seperate diamonds from ore. (I have yet to understand how the non-flourescing diamonds are seperated - anyone in diamond mining out there?) Blue is the most common color, yellow is less common. The Hope diamond flouresces red. The percentage of diamonds - needs to be researched, and the article needs correction. SauliH 05:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The section is confusing because it discusses fluorescence from two sources:long wave ultrviolet and X-ray. X-ray initiated fluorescence is used in the diamond ore processing by Sortex machine technology. A bit of googling returned the following:
The ore passes on a covered conveyor belt through a Sortex machine. The Sortex machine beams an X-Ray over the ore, which will cause any freed diamonds to fluoresce. When a light detector identifies the fluorescent diamonds, the Sortex machine sends a blast of air to knock the diamond off the conveyor belt and into a secured recovery chamber.
from http://sec.edgar-online.com/1997/04/14/00/0001017062-97-000644/Section2.asp - a profile of Global Diamond Resources, Inc
Also mentioned in Barren Lands: An Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American Arctic by Kevin Krajick.
Vsmith 12:26, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Added a section on fluorescence which should clear all this up Fromos 23:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cartel

The diamond cartel is so successful that the wikipedia entry for Diamonds doesn't even mention the word cartel. 85.205.254.135 13:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Did you know that International Gemmological Institute, has no right more to be member of the bourse in Antwerp. So I would be very carefull when you mention a company who is well know to make fake certificates. Never forget that when you bying a diamond certified or certified trough a jewellry,helas for the industry, they will sell you a false certifiate, (grading a false color or clarity or shape.In a certificate, the laboratory, will never take the responsability of the analising result. I LET YOU GUESS WHY. If you think bying a diamond for investment,you will never receive back the costprice, but much more less. Hope to help the public to be aware of the dangers.

                         James Harris

I will try to give a follow up, for the sake of the public, about the industry depending the available possibilities. james Harris

The diamond certification authorities you describe do not reflect the consensus of the diamond trade. The two main certification authorities used by the top tier of jewelers are the HRD (the official body of the Belgian diamond industry) and the GIA. Certainly laboratories like EGLUSA should not be mentioned without a caution.213.2.22.144 23:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hardest Metal

I just happened upon this article when the first sentence correctly declared that diamonds are the hardest metal known the man. When I refreshed, this fact was replaced with some bogus information about "natural materials" or something. Everyone on the internet knows that diamonds are a metal, and not just any metal, but the hardest metal known the man. Just look at this quote from a top expert in gemology:

"Diamond is one of the hardest metals (If not THE hardest metal) known the man. Definitely much harder than anything walls are made out of these days."

-Professor Z. L. Cable June 13, 2005

Diamonds are harder then walls these days but do you know how much it hurts if you punch a wall?Sylvan wu 07:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

-Arn't diamonds minerals, not metals? Garfieldt 12:50, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

-This is strange to me. Earlier in the article in the Electrical Conductivity section it states that diamonds are either insulators or semiconductors. Metals, by conventional definition in material sciences, are conductive. I can only surmise that this is a misprinting of the "hardest material" as can be found on pages such as www.webelements.com or any other number of web sites that do thorough checking on their science. And though diamonds is a mineral so is silver, which is a metal. If there is a reliable source that claims diamond to be metal please provide it as the references that I found with a google search found it quoted by a mock-encyclopedia and myspace sites. It is possible that the term "metal" is being used in some other fashion, though I don't think that is the case.

-Chemgarcia 07:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Chemgarcia, this is, as the date shows, a very old comment. The article does not state that diamonds are metals. Maybe I missed it, so copy and paste if it's still there.KP Botany 01:48, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The diamond is a metal statement is an insertion made by a vandal under different user names/IP's see this recent block User:Incrediblechicken. If it rears it ugly head please report to Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism for immediate blocking. SauliH 04:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Diamonds are pure Carbon which is by no means a metal. They exhibit no metallic properties whatsoever. This is WRONG and needs to be changed.70.51.139.101 07:21, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

So is diamonds a mineral or metal?Sylvan wu 00:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Just to clear up for all of you, it's a nonmedal (due to the fact it's made of carbon alone, usually and any such pure carbon compound have nonmedal properties), does no body here learn chemistry. And mineral is defined as a natural occurring homogeneous solid with a definite chemical composition and highly ordered atomic arrangement made by inorganic process. No where does it say that it have to be a medal/nonmedal. which means one can be both. iron is a medal and a mineral while ice or H2O, is a mineral but not a medal. By the way, i suck at English, I'm a Chinese. and Diamond is not the hardest material, it's the 3rd(or 4th, there is no mention of Beta carbon nitride, which is believed to be harder, although extremely difficult to creat, thus proof well). But it IS the hardest MINERAL, because all the harder stuff is man made, thus not natural occuring. a nonregistered user, and hopefully know what I'm talking about. if i'm wrong, please correct me, but i'm pretty sure on the defination of mineral since i'm studying it right now (68.251.149.2 22:08, 10 October 2007 (UTC))

You know, with a bit of research into the world of memes, one can figure out what Sylvan wu was talking about. He didn't make a typo, by the way, diamonds are the hardest metal known the man. known the man.

some kid said this on some forum and it leaked to outsider sites. my guess is that it was ebaumsworld. well anyway, it was just some stupid quote so pay him no mind.

Besides, DETHKLOK is the hardest metal known the man. Nice job Sylvan wu, but you had your fun. Someone take a gander over at Encyclopedia Dramatica and you'll be able to figure these obscure inside jokes for yourself. Vicious203 12:18, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

lol, I'm pretty sure musical refrence is not the right stuff here. Besides, you can't exactly say what is the hardest medal after reading the aticle, all the stuff that's hard here are carbon based, I believe, thus non-medals. Besides, Sylvan wu is using the wrong defination of hard. If you make a diamond in just the right shape and punch it, it's gonna break to shreads(perfect cleavage). Hardness is not how painful it will be to punch it, it is the resistence to scraches. I think it's elasticity or something like that that determines how "hard" it will be when you punch it(the resistence to change??). Will someone look up that term? And once again, lol to the little animition thingy.(68.254.80.86 23:07, 3 November 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Wikiproject Gemstones and Jewellery???

Would anyone else be interested in a WP for this subject. I see a lot of holes that could use expansion. Anyone? SauliH 17:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article should be locked

there is too much vandalism going on.--F3rn4nd0 BLA BLA BLA 18:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] some wierd ass diamond song

and i quote "Diamondsare forever, They are all I need to please me, They can stimulate and tease me, They won't leave in the night, I've no fear that they might desert me. Diamonds are forever, Hold one up and then caress it, Touch it, stroke it and undress it, I can see ev'ry part, Nothing hides in the heart to hurt me. I don't need love, For what good will love do me? Diamonds never lie to me, For when love's gone, They'll lustre on. Diamonds are forever, Sparkling round my little finger. Unlike men, the diamonds linger; Men are mere mortals who Are not worth going to your grave for. I don't need love, For what good will love do me? Diamonds never lie to me, For when love's gone, They'll lustre on. Diamonds are forever, forever, forever. Diamonds are forever, forever, forever. Forever and ever. is the hardest".... ???? the fuck???? i'll change it back... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.255.66.194 (talk) 00:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] famous diamonds

shouldn't there be a sup topic on famous diamonds? like the kohi-noor and the hope etc.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.92.139.81 (talk) 18:14, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

== Commodity Fetishism == ɘ ɵ ɤ ɘ ɵ ɤ ɘ ɵ ɤ

A link to this subject has been entered on numerous occasions, and I have removed it for the following reasons -

1. The See Also section is intended for related articles. Articles that relate to the topic of Diamonds in this instance.
2. Commodity Fetishism is a Marxist theory that relates to luxury goods, and at present makes absolutely no discussion of diamonds.
3. Due to there being no relationship, the link is made purely on the supposition that Diamonds are an example of a luxury good that fits the theory of Commodity Fetishism.
4. An example is insufficient grounds to make the reference to the other article, when one could apply this suppositional POV to ANY consumer good. That would mean that simply on someones whim the article Television could be referenced to that article because they felt it was an example of Commodity Fetishism

I will be removing any link made to this article. SauliH 05:34, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

How can you list famous diamonds without Neil Diamond, Dustin Diamond, or Lou Diamond Phillips!? Thank you, and goodnight. Vicious203 12:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Diamonds and value/expense

The question of whether diamonds should be termed valuable or expensive is important. When an appraisal is done on an item, it is valued at market value - ie the price a willing buyer and a willing seller will pay. If an item is expensive it connotes that in relation to that market, the item is 'overpriced' ie the price is too high. Conversely, a cheap item is an item that is underpriced. When you compare diamond and graphite you are comparing apples to oranges. To pay $25 for a graphite drawing implement may be expensive, but to pay $1000 for a 1 carat diamond of excellant quality is cheap. To correctly state that diamond fetches a high price than graphite, is to state that it has more value. For this reason I am reverting the recent edit. SauliH 03:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Word meanings are not always universal, and I disagree that "expensive" always carries semantic connotations of overpricing. (It doesn't, not for me.) For me it just means that the market price is objectively high, regardless of its market equilibrium.
For me, valuable is slightly irrelevant to price; air is valuable, but cheap, for example.
I've been in a couple of similar situations, and I think the best way to resolve these problems is to come up with a paraphrase. ;) We need one that doesn't use "valuable" or "expensive." --Kjoonlee 04:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I am fine with costly. Thanks for the compromise. SauliH 04:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] fact tag overuse

The recent addition of overabundant fact tags to, in some cases, every sentence in a section is quite absurd and renders the finished page ugly and difficult to read. The material in the article when the FA status was achieved was very well referenced with the general references, now a citation fanatic seems intent on disrupting the flow of the article with ugly fact tags all over the place. It seems to me that the vast majority of these tags are quite unneeded. Please only apply them to possibly controversial material and not to generally common information that is available in a variety of general refs. Vsmith 16:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I admit I am a citation fanatic. The article lacks direct citations of assertions made which require a specific source for verification. I acknowledge that I did go somewhat overboard, and am jhappy with a toning down of the tags. I would hope that this article can have a greater level of citation applied to it. to bring it back up to FA status. Cheers. SauliH 21:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I disagree, if it is not cited, it shouldn't be there in the first place. It's good to use the fact tag, in all cases where information is not cited, so people can either cite them or remove the none cited sentence/information. --78.86.117.164 23:52, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TTLB and TTLC diamonds

Hello My name is erhan and I m from Turkey,I like to read more information about TTLB TTLC colored diamond and how do they priced? also I like to read and see the color grade of TTLB and TTLC diamond ..

[edit] Article Structure

At present certain topics are discussed throughout the article, despite there being specific sections for their discussion. For instance the usage of diamonds is discussed throughout the materials section, even though there is a whole subsection dealing with diamond usage. Someone could copyedit the article with this in mind. SauliH 22:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inaccuracy in section 2.1 (Formation)

"Diamonds cannot form beneath oceanic crust because the lithosphere is too thin to reach the pressures required for diamond stability" gets it more or less backwards. The temperatures at which diamonds form are high compared to the Earth's surface, but low compared to the Earth's ambient temperature at the appropraite depth. Within the Earth, pressure is a function of depth, without much lateral variation. The significant difference between ocean and stable continent, where diamonds are concerned, is one of temperature, not pressure -- at sufficient depth to reach the required pressure, oceanic mantle is too hot to produce diamonds. Thick cratonic lithosphere is required because it's colder than the rest of the mantle, and reaches the appropriate depth for diamond formation.

204.112.133.75 05:19, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

(Went ahead and corrected it. I've tried not to alter the writing style or structure.)

204.112.133.75 05:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Diamonds....Beautiful arent they?

Actually this whole section is extremely difficult to read. And many of the statements seem to be out of order. ie:"Diamonds rise to the Earth surfaces in molten rock, that commence at substantial intensity (What commences? Rocks? Diamonds? What do they commence doing? What is intense?). Diamonds cannot form beneath oceanic crust because the oceanic mantle is too hot at the appropriate depth. Diamonds that contain tiny amounts of other elements dramatically change the electrical properties of diamonds (this section has little to nothing to do with the preceding and following statements). Thick continental lithosphere is cooler than asthenosphere at the same depth, reaching the required pressure at a low enough temperature for diamond stability." I suggest someone with knowledge on the subject thoroughly edit it.colincbn

It seems someone has cleaned up this article beautifully. What else would it need to regain its featured status? Colincbn 17:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tons of syntetic diamonds

All tons are not the same. A “long ton” equals 2,240 pounds; a “short ton” 2,000 pounds; and a “metric ton” 2,204.62 pounds. International data are usually cited in metric tons, see Ton#Common abbreviations. And yes, this is confusing. Antonio Carlos Porto 22:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


I dispute the link given after the sentence about jewellers noticing a correlation between cleanliness and the marriage quality. It's a fairly dodgy site. Naysie 23:43, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism of page

82.196.41.2 15:02, 13 February 2007 (UTC) The diamond article has suffered vandalism. Under the section on hardness the text has been recoloured and an "I love wikipedia" message added.

Has been fixed. Anyone can restore a page to an unvandalized revision, see Help:Reverting on how you can help. Femto 15:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Scoring?

Diamond is the hardest natural material known, scoring 10 on the relative Mohs scale of mineral hardness[2]

Thats a bit of an odd way to put it. Diamond was CHOSEN to be mineral #10 on a scale that has 10 minerals. It didn't "score" a 10. That would imply that 10 had some meaning independent of diamond. Diamond was labled 10. So in mohs scale, 10 just means "diamond". Brentt 22:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Good catch. SauliH 00:49, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling discussion - American English/British English

The spelling in this article varies from American english to "British" english depending on the editor who has contributed. For instance we have this sentence with a variety of color/colour

When the color is saturated enough in yellow or brown diamonds, a stone may be referred to as a fancy colored diamond by the gem trade, otherwise they are graded for colour in the normal colour range of white diamonds.[citation needed] Colored diamonds contain impurities or structural defects that cause the colouration, while pure or nearly pure diamonds are transparent and colorless.

Wikipedia policy on spelling standardization is here, and offers little help except to state that we should standardize the article in one spelling standard. Which should we standardis/ze with? I am Australian (British english) but live in the US so I can go either way, and really have no opinion. Something should happen though. I do not want to change them to one or the other at this point AND I think we should all have this discussion before we leap into it and annoy others. SauliH 18:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

As both are "standard", I would say go with the usage that's used more frequently in the whole article now, and stick with that for the future. --Fru1tbat 18:31, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
As I read the article it appears to me that American english is more in use. But all spelling looks correct to me these days, so picking out the variants is not as easy. If the weight of the article is towards American spelling than the manual of style leads us in the direction of most common spelling variance. What spelling variation does the article appear to lean towards to you? SauliH 18:49, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

When the article became a featured article, the spelling was consistently American English. -- Jasper 06:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I standardized the spelling to the American style. I did this based on the fact that the section of this article that refers to a diamonds color is titled "Color" as per American spelling standards. If anyone takes exception to this by all means change it back but I request you change every use of the word including section names in order to maintain standardization. I think this should settle this issue. --colincbn

[edit] Cut Quality

Garry Holloway asked me (via private e-mail) to change the spelling of IdealScope to Ideal-Scope. Since www.idealscope.com redirects to www.ideal-scope.com, I made the change. He also asked, "if it is within [Wikipedia's] rules", if Ideal-Scope could be "a hyper link to www.ideal-scope.com". Since GemEx is already a link to gemex.com, this seemed reasonable to me. While I was at it, I cleaned up the paragraph's grammar. -- Jasper 07:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I was reading this article when I noticed that it said diamond is the third hardest material known, but then later goes on to state that diamond can be stratched by 4 other materials. If this is true, then wouldn't diamonds be the fifth hardest material? First of all, it can be scrached by other diamonds, thus 3 possible "scracher". Then it is believed that Beta carbon nitride is harder than it and can scrach it, although that is not writen on this page. I'd like somebody review that because on Beta carbon nitride site it says it's harder than diamond while there is no mention of it here. That makes 4.(68.76.217.119 23:40, 6 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Borazon?

I made a quick search for the claim that Borazon is harder than diamonds, and some sources tell that that diamond is instead the hardest of the two [1]. A related question is whether we can use "Cubic boron nitride" instead of "Borazon". Tizio 12:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Value

I have to say, as prestigious as this article is, I don't seem to see a section in the article relating to the value of diamonds and how its determined, that is a ver important aspect. 192.30.202.20 00:20, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, there has been many cases in the past with South African/Israeli firms price fixing. However, it goes largely uncovered on the media. BBC mentioned it. There was a couple of cases in 1990's. It would also make sense to see other value and price related information on this article. --78.86.117.164 23:48, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] chemical structure

could somebody write some thing on the chemical structure please

[edit] Proprietary Cuts

Would it be appropriate to include specific information on proprietary cuts? I have been given a lot of information on the Hearts on Fire cut, but can find no source, other than the company itself, stating the this cut is better than the Ideal cut. --Iscariot40 03:39, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Iscariot,
You might want to add notable cuts to the Diamond cut page. Specific, verifiable details are more appropriate than generic, weakly-supported claims.
Technical details about the distinguishing features of proprietary cuts might be interesting. For example: Does the cut have a different number of facets? Where are any extra/missing facets? Does the claimed number of facets count the girdle? (The standard cuts' facet counts do not count the girdle facets.) Does the cut have a painted or cheated girdle? Does the cutter consistently achieve angle variations less than one-quarter degree? less than one-tenth degree? What pavillion and crown angles does the cutter aim for? What (quantified) facet-lengths does the cutter aim for?
What dimensions are normally used to measure the stone? For example, square cuts are measured across the flats, not along the hypotenuse. Is the cut designed to maximize carat weight, regardless of cross-sectional area?
You allude to WP:NPOV issues when describing the appearance of the cut. If notable reliable sources, preferably other than the manufacturer, the distributor(s), and retailer(s), consistently describe a very obvious distinguishing feature of the cut, you might want to mention it. If the difference is comparable to that between the ideal round brilliant cut and the Portuguese cut, it is probably worth mentioning.
Some historical information might be useful. When was the cut first designed? When was it first sold? Has the designer registered a patent or copyright on the cut? Is the patent or copyright limited to particular countries? Has the patent or copyright been challenged? Is the design now in the public domain?
-- Jasper 15:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that this statement is misleading as Asscher and cushion cuts are not "newer cuts". Cushion cut is older that round brilliant and the asscher was created in 1902. "Newer cuts that have been introduced into the jewelry industry are the "cushion" "radiant"(similar to princess cuts, but with rounded edges instead of square edges) and "Asscher" cuts." Blondiebebe 14:24, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. That whole part has to be rewritten. To call Asscher new, is in fact totally absurd. Philip Youngman for example is a fairly famous, multiple award winning cutter, who developed a new diamond cut (which he patented) more recently. And like him there are more. The innovation comes from a whole group of new cutters especially in America these days, which started in the 1950's and 1960's in California (Henry Hunt amongst others) and in Idar Oberstein (Erwin Pauly, Bernd Munsteiner and a few more.) Whilst many focused on gemstones in general, some in fact developed innovative new diamonds cuts as well. I would be a bit more reluctant with manufacturers... and their cuts.. since there is a clear trend in the industry for branding of gems/diamond cuts. Like patents in technology, (much weaker) design patents + trademark of a name for the cut, are the trend these days. Especially since internet retailers are carving out the market for normal cuts. BE CAREFUL therefore not to fall into a propaganda trap. Individual artist who see their cuts reward with some award (like de beers, AGTA or other) are a different story. That's where a lot of the innovation comes from, if you want to mention specialty cuts. Gem-fanat 23:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


Agreed. A section for diamond cutting styles would be great. Ragemanchoo 15:24, 3 September 2007

[edit] Piezoelectric Diamond?

I was actually wondering is there was anyone who might know if there are any Piezoelectric properties in diamonds. I know that a fair number of natural and synthetic crystals exhibit this property, and I also know that carbon, when its molecular structuring is right, has conductive and super-conductive properties. I'm just wondering if anyone has ever done tests on these properties with the common diamond? and if so, where might I find the research?

also, I've just read, that boron-doped synthetic diamonds, at super-cold temperatures, are in fact super-conductors, and research is being done to find out more. (site: http://www.spacedaily.com/news/carbon-04h.html)

but unfortunately, this still doesn't answer my question. if one were to set it up right, and apply mechanical stress to a diamond(synthetic or natural) would it exhibit any piezo-electrical properties, i.e.- convert said stress into electrical energy?

ok you're mixing quite a few things here. Superconductivity has nothing to do with piezo-electricity (either stress or heat induced) and crystal structure IS important. Having said that I have not heard of Diamonds showing piezo electric properties such as tourmaline or of course quartz have. Gem-fanat 23:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)М

A WORD ON DIAMOMD PLACERS? OFFSHORE DIAMONDS?

[edit] Largest cut diamond

The Golden Jubilee was surpassed by an unnamed 555.55 carat diamond cut in Belgium in 2004 (I've also mentioned this on the GJ discussion page). See the Guinness entry. --Anshelm '77 22:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Diamond is the hardest diamond known by mankind and the third-hardest known diamond?

"Diamond is the hardest diamond known by mankind and the third-hardest known diamond after diamond and ultrahard fullerite. It is also a metal known the mam. Its hardness and high dispersion of light make it useful for industrial applications and jewelry."

Seems like vandalism to me. DJLarZ 13:50, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

The vandalism has been reverted. --BorgQueen 13:54, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Largest rough diamond in the world just found

The largest rough diamond in the world has just been found in the North West province of South Africa. It is about twice the size of the Cullinan diamond. Can the article be modified please to reflect this new information? --87.185.217.97 22:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

It has still to be confirmed as BBC NEWS said, and it is not yet official.

--Florentino floro 14:48, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

And it will take until next week (or even longer) before "the stone" will be verified or not [[2]] 141.2.22.211 13:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

If its real, I doubt its gem quality. People like the tout the Sandofu(sp?) thing about a lot, but its a low-quality stone.Ragemanchoo 15:26, 3 September 2007

I'm wondering, whether we will ever hear of that thing again. Now it's tuesday and there's still no news on the "giant gem" at all. Nothing, nowhere. According to the last press releases ([[3]], [[4]]) the stone should have been already examined. 141.2.22.211 15:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


According to the last news about the stone (which i found via LexisNexis, therefor i have to include it here), its owners seem still to be hestitant to get it scrutinized:
The sparkle in what is believed to be the biggest diamond the world has ever seen appears to be getting dimmer and dimmer. It is now almost three weeks since Brett Jolly hit the headlines claiming he had in his possession a large green stone that may, or may not, be the biggest diamond the world has ever seen. Jolly's claimed the so-called "Jade Giant" diamond, which, if authentic, would be twice the size of the Cullinan diamond, was 8 120 caratst. Jolly, the director of Two Point Five Group and guardian of the stone, said half the world has called him a charlatan. The other half congratulated him. This comes amid claims this week by a Cape Town pensioner who lost nearly R10 000 in a timeshare scheme run by a company whose chief executive officer was Jolly. Thousands of others across the country reportedly also lost money in the timeshare deal. But Jolly, a British property developer based in Cape Town, claims he lost R8 million through his involvement with the company and later brought a liquidation application against it in the Cape High Court. World Federation of Diamond Bourse president Ernest Blom - the man who will decide if the giant stone is a diamond or not - told the Tribune he still has not seen the stone. "Jolly and his partners have stashed the diamond away. Its location is being guarded. I am hoping to see the stone this week." (Sunday Tribune (South Africa), September 16, 2007, Page 4 (Section: News))
I think it would be better to curtail the paragraph. A short mention should do. And if there will be no confirmation until the beginning of october i recommend to erase the whole paragraph. 90.186.163.111 10:34, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Diamond Changes

I heard my professor of chemistry say that diamonds revert back to graphite, although very slowly. Does anyone know if this is true and how long this process takes? 24.136.88.151 19:06, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Millions of years, at least. I would ordinarily think that it would be longer than the amount of time required for hydrocarbons to rearrange to more stable isomers (which I estimate as longer than the current age of the universe), since such a massive structural reorganization must occur, but perhaps I am wrong; Chemical Principles by Steven Zumdahl says that Beri Bousera, a giant slab of graphite under Morocco, may have originally been diamond. So we are looking at a time scale of millions to billions of years. Bbi5291 23:53, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, it really depend on the envirment. Under normal envirment(we consider this as room tempture at 1 atm) it will take a long time, a few million to billion molecule a second kind, based on surface area of slow, or a few grams a billion years or something(size of diamond play a role, the center is not going to change until the shell does first because the shell will hold the center with pressure, chmically and physically, and only if it losens due to the shell's reverse does the center begin to change.) But if it's in vacuum or if it's in high heat, or both(the opposite of creation of diamond) it will go a bit faster as the condtion become more extreme. Excuse my English, I can't spell please edit a bit. (68.76.217.119 23:28, 6 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Certification

Shouldn't be a separate section? A mention and details of EGL is welcome. --Connection 11:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Created spinoff

Diamond (gemstone)

This article was pretty big, and it seems that diamonds as a subject can be broken down between use as a mineral and as a gemstone. With that in mind, (WP:SIZE) I created a new article for discussion of diamond as a gemstone per WP:SS. I left the diamond industry here as it discusses both uses. Anynobody 05:29, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Uses

Add a uses section. Obviously they are used as jewelery, but they have other uses. Malamockq 21:20, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

The information itself is present in diamond#the diamond industry, at the very least. Someguy1221 00:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GIA instruments link

I found a link on GIA's website with the locations of the DTC equipment that identifies synthetic diamond http://www.giainstruments.co.uk/worldmap.cfm --60.242.173.247 (talk) 23:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Diamond Guru

Here is an excellent information page

http://www.thediamondguru.blogspot.com/

Hope this helps —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.76.235 (talk) 19:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

The article states that there are large diamond trading houses dealing in conflict diamonds. I do not accept this but if any evidence is available of this it should be referenced so that readers can make there own mind whether it is factual or just speculation, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.169.24.53 (talk) 23:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rhenium diboride

Rhenium diboride is harder than diamond. This should be added to the page. Misterguch (talk) 20:44, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Artificial Diamond Identification

Several companies claim to be able to produce diamonds that include flaws which are indistinguishable from natural diamonds. According to some articals it's led the Diamond cartels to add serial numbers to diamonds to denote "real" diamonds. Shouldn't this deserve a mention or some research? Manic-pedant (talk) 20:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 5th hardest Material

The article states that diamond is the fifth hardest known material, but then only gives three materials as stronger 24.252.195.3 (talk) 18:42, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

The section is dubious and I removed it. Someone readded it, again stating diamond was the fifth hardest substance, and listing five(!) harder substances - by my math, this would place diamond at sixth. So, I have removed it again. Now, the ultrahard fullerite article states it is not as hard as diamond, as does the cubic boron nitride article. Rhenium diboride is only harder than diamond in certain directions, due to extreme anisotropy. Aggregated diamond nanorods are the only substance for which the article backs up being harder than diamond. Neıl 龱 10:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)