Talk:Dhangar/Archive 1
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Before deleting anything please post here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.224.100.157 (talk) 13:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Lord Krishna, Prophet Muhammad and Jesus Christ were all Sheperds - 19/03/2007 (Gudi Padwa). Please add this in the article.
- The fact that they were shepherds is pretty irrelevant to the article. I'm removing this addition. Sctele 21:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't see why Ahir was removed as a subcaste. Readded it. - Sctele Sctele 21:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Dhangars are Kshatriyas??? Can anyone provide some evidence which proves this? - Sctele 17:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Great Pallavas, Hoysalas and Vijayanagara Empire were from Dhangars (kurubas ), what more you need to prove that, Dhangars are Kshatriyas. - TT 01:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
It's not that I'm saying that they are or are not (I happen to be Dhangar as well). Its just that I've never actually heard of this in the North, particularly in Maharashtra. Sctele 22:05, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
BTW, are there any Dhangar community websites, for the Dhangar diaspora to connect to one another, esp. if they are in the USA (in my case)? I myself live in the Washington, D.C. area. Sctele 20:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Dhangars are so unaware and divided that they can not think beyond their livelyhood . Where is then the possibility of having a website of their own. A few years back a young unemployed engineer boy requested the so called social leaders of Dhangar community in a small gathering in which even one IPS officer was present, to have our own website . He himself volunteered to create the website . He requested them to take necessary initiative . However the result is that there is still a question that, " Is there a website of Dhangars ?"
Please don't randomly add topics. If you're going to add to the page, make sure it's something that is relevant, organized, and is fleshed out in content. Sctele 17:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Lord Krishna, Prophet Muhammad and Jesus Christ were all Sheperds - 19/03/2007 (Gudi Padwa). Please add this in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.210.75.100 (talk • contribs) 21:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Tanvi needs info for dhangars life. Can somebody provide it? 122.162.163.22 16:01, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Dhangars are aborigins of Indian subcontinent, They existed even before the aryans invaded Indus valley . Krishna,of Mathura i.e. Brija area was also a Dhangar. It has been clearly mentioned by many historians that Krishna was a Shepherd. Dhangars are the actual decendants of God Krishna but due to their lack of awareness they did not know the history and others have staked the claim and have successfully .
The first statue installed in parliament house (at its 5th gate) was of the great Indian Emperor Chandragupta Maurya by Shri Hilda Selegman . It is incribed on it that " Shepherd boy Chandragupta Maurya dreaming of the India he was to create ". This along with other historical written evidences proves that the famous Maurya dynasty was also of Dhangars. The chandels of Kalinjar, the kings who built the famous temples of Khajuraho, also were Dhangars. They rose to kingship from the humble job of sheep rearing like the Haihar Bukkaraya of Vijayanagar Empire. Pal kings of Bengal, Sangeet Samrat Tansen in the court of Akbar, Sultan of Delhi Khusrav Shah( for 3 months between Khiljis and Tughalaks)and Anhilpal both of Gujrat, Bappa Rawal and Ajpal Chauhan ( grandfather of Prathvi raj Chauhan) both of Rajasthan, also had their origin from the Shepherds.
The Dhangars ignore the subcastes and projects themselves only as Dhangars.
The Dhangar community is one of the oldest existing communities of India, tracing its history back to Mahabharata times. They have originated several ruling dynasties, most recently the Holkars of Indore.
Prominent Dhangars have been Hakkaraya and Bukkaraya, founders of Vijayanagara Empire. Dhangars have founded the Hoysalas, Holkar, Rashtrakutas, Maurya, Pallav dynasties. In addition the poets Kalidasa and Kanakadasa were also Dhangars.
The famous Vittal temple at Pandharpur was built by Vishnuvardhana who was a Dhangar from the Hoysala Dynasty.
Traditionally being warriors, shepherds and farmers, Dhangars were late to take up modern day education. Though it has a notable population not only in Maharashtra but also in India, had a rich history, today it is still politically highly unorganised community and is socially, educationally, economically and politically backward. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.224.100.157 (talk) 13:27, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Contents |
[edit] From Vishal1976
1) In our village we have milk business. We have cows , buffalos, sheeps , goats etc and we do farming for bread and butter. Does that mean that we Dudhane's are not Maratha and are from Dhangar, Shepards, Gawli, Kunbi, Peasant etc caste ???
2) I am a cloth mearchant. Does that mean i am Marwadi ??
3) In my relation peoples do varity of business like Hoteling, catering, Liquor shope owner, Jwlers , Shoe merchant. Does that mean that they are not Maratha's and they are from other caste like Chambhar, Shetty etc ?? You people have no commone sence. Your brain and body is not fully developed. You have physcological problems. You need a treatement.
Reply to Vishal You first get ur basics right. Go check what is varna system and when caste immerged also I am not interested in your paternal lineage your parents must be knowing it better.
Do get some Psychiatric treatment and stop Vandalism.
Maharaja Yashwantrao Holkar was Coronated as a King in January 1799, without any objection from anybody according to Vedic rites.
Clan system is present only in Kshatriyas, for you information. From the clans of Dhangars you can easily find that they are Kshatriyas, thats the strongest proof, you dont need any other proof for that. Dhangars, when lost their Kingdoms, chose being sheperds, instead of becoming slaves of some foreigners. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lex Rex (talk • contribs) 03:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
1) Arya Vaidik Dharma do not accept Dhangar as Kshatriya's.Give proofe for this. In King Shivaji's army ther was diffrent kind, caste , religion peoples fighting invaders, such as Koli, Bhandari, Mahar, Muslims etc. Do they are recognised by society and Hindu religion as Kshatriya' s. The answer is no. 2) You asked about my parental liniage. I can show my family, blood, marrige with any of khandani Maratha in this world. Such as Mr Vilasrao Deshmukh, Mr Anantrao Thopte, Late Vitthalrao Tupe , Mrs Rajlaxmi Bhosle and many more. Challenge me. 3) According Arya Vaidik Hindu dharma their are only two real Kshatriya vana left in this world. First is Maratha's and the second is their sub caste Rajput's. 4) Go to any institutation of your Dhangar society and see what they call themselves. The call themselves as Maratha Dhangar. The khandani Dhangar's don't marry other caste, state Dhangar's as you are now stating here. The assume themselves as upper, pure , khandani than other sub castes of Dhangar. 5) You may call Dhangars as warrior and shepards but certianly not Kshatriya because Arya Vaidik Dharma does't accept it. 6) Dhangar's are nomadic peoples. They wonder for their bread and butter. They don't have their villeges, thikanas, kingdom, patilki etc as Maratha's have. In nowdays the situation may have slightly changed. 6) Show me the Dhangar's in politics. They and others are oughtnumbered by great Maratha's. Besides Dhangar is reconised by goverment of India as OBC etc under reservetion caste. 7) The Dhangar may posses some physical qualities that may have used by Maratha's in warfare. But Dhangar's are not rulers and were never.
I am not vandalist. You are.-- Vishal1976 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.247.141.68 (talk) 08:00, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Vishal,Dhangars are Kshatriyas, this was reaffirmed and declared in 1933 in the golden jublee conference of Hindu Mahasabha at Ajmer were Kshatriyas too were present. Just check the Gotras, lineage and you wont need further clarification if you know anything about Hinduism. . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.88.1.11 (talk) 11:08, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
My objection is that you are showing unnesseray advantage towards Dhangar subcastes. It's true that the Khandani Dhangar of Maharashtra are parents of all other Dhangar sub caste of world, but do they accept this truth, reality ?? No. So why do you entertain them here. Morover their traditions, physical, moral and ethical values are diffrent from Maratha Dhangars.Do they respect us ?? No. Whole world hate us because we are only pure bread Aryan left in this world. So you shoudent give equal place. Don't you realise in your day to day business how these Rajputs, marwadi, Kokani, north and South Indians hate us and envay us ?? The resone behind it is that they are basteds created by savage rape by invaders. We are poor and desi but have blue blood. You should not play with the socialy accepted Dhangar clans. They have 32 clans and not 108. T have objection if you mislead the world.-- Vishal1976
We are Dhangars, our occupations are different but are complementary with each other. We are very much one. Its a truth that no Dhangar will tell you his sub-caste he will proudly tell he is only a Dhangar. I have not seen anyone hating Dhangars, we are innocent people we have never oppressed anyone. It is not me who is saying that there are 108 Clans in Dhangars of India it is what is stated by independent historians which has already been mentioned. Note that the list is not exhaustive. Marathas and Dhangars are different. Tanaji Malusare was Dhangar, so we can say he is a Dhangar-Maratha. Similarly it is Dhangar-Rajput (Rajputs are a collection of Royal Clans who intermarry).
Note that Maharashtrian Dhangars have blood relations with the South and North Indian Shepherds (Dhangars). So we are very much one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lex Rex (talk • contribs) 14:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Lex Rex (talk • contribs) 14:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Total nonsence. Tanaji Malusare was a peasant from Maratha caste. So was the royal can of Shinde. You have a fobia in yor mind. The Dhangar bubble will blast very soon. You seem a kind of up town boy. You don't how weMaratha's crush other caste cruely. Get feedback from grond level reality. You are doing so ediotic, nonsence thing that world even do't bother to take notice of you.I vish you may lay in peace in your dream land.-- Vishal1976 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.247.141.233 (talk) 07:34, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I am very disapointed after reading this. Friends we all are Indian So proud to be an Indian —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.242.248.130 (talk) 09:17, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Notable Kingdoms??????
The list includes Dwaraka Kingdom (who Krishna a Dhangar?????) Where the Holkars ,Hoysalas, Vijayanagar Empire, Rashtrakutas, Maurya, Pallavas Dhangars???? If yes, this needs references.
Also, the article right is rather a big boring list. It does not discuss the customs, religion, occupations, festivals they celebrate, regions they belong, food etc. in detail. The article definitely needs a lot of improvement.--Redtigerxyz 12:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
i dont think that dhangars are kshatriyas. dhangars r not related to marathas & rajputs
im a dhangar myself61.2.57.55 (talk) 10:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)varun _______________________________________________________________________________________________
[edit] NPOV, Verifiability
I've removed a large amount of material that is not referenced and asserts a POV regarding this caste. Clearly, there are caste article issues throughout Wikipedia. Material that represents a particular point of view should not be added - please review WP:NPOV. The same goes for information that is unreferenced, see WP:V. Avruchtalk 17:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
WHAT IF IT IS AN ORIGINAL RESEARCH OR IF THIS INFORMATION IS NEVER WRITTEN OR IF THIS INFORMATION IS BASED ON ACTUAL FACTS. IT IS NOT NECCESARY THAT WHAT IS WRITTEN SO LONG MUST ALWAYS BE TRUE. INSTEAD OF DELETING IT KINDLY FIRST SHOW THAT IT IS WRONG. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unsigned1 (talk • contribs) 06:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
You should look at the top of the page, or elsewhere at Wikipedia's content policies. Original research is specifically prohibited, as is content that can not be verified to a reliable secondary source. There are places in this world for that type of information, but an encyclopedia is not one of them. Avruchtalk 08:47, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Western view-- Vishal1976
1 This article is based entirely on a paper by Rai Bahādur Panda Baijnāth, Superintendent, Bastar State.
[Contents] Dhangar 1. Traditions and structure of the caste. Dhangar.1—The Marātha caste of shepherds and blanket-weavers, numbering 96,000 persons in the Central Provinces and Berār. They reside principally in the Nāgpur, Wardha, Chānda and Nimār Districts of the Central Provinces and in all Districts of Berār. The Dhangars are a very numerous caste in Bombay and Hyderābād. The name is derived either from the Sanskrit dhenu, a cow, or more probably from dhan,2 wealth, a term which is commonly applied to flocks of sheep and goats. It is said that the first sheep and goats came out of an ant-hill and scattering over the fields began to damage the crops of the cultivators. They, being helpless, prayed to Mahādeo to rescue them from this pest and he thereupon created the first Dhangar to tend the flocks. The Dhangars consequently revere an ant-hill, and never remove one from their fields, while they worship it on the Diwāli day with offerings of rice, flowers and part of the ear of a goat. When tending and driving sheep and goats they ejaculate ‘Har, Har,’ which is a name of Mahādeo used by devotees in worshipping him. The Dhangars furnished a valuable contingent to Sivaji’s guerilla soldiery, and the ruling family of Indore State belong to this caste. It is divided into the following subcastes: Varādi or Barāde, belonging to Berār; Kānore or Kānade, of Kanara; Jhāde, or those belonging to the Bhandāra, Bālāghāt and Chhindwāra Districts, called the Jhādi or hill country; Lādse, found in Hyderābād; Gādri, from gādar, a sheep, a division probably consisting of northerners, as the name for the cognate caste of shepherds in Hindustān is Gadaria; Telange, belonging to the Telugu country; Marāthe, of the Marātha country; Māhurai from Māhur in Hyderābād, and one or two others. Eleven subcastes in all are reported. For the purposes of marriage a number of exogamous groups or septs exist which may be classified according to their nomenclature as titular and totemistic, many having also the [481]names of other castes. Examples of sept names are: Powār, a Rājpūt sept; Dokra, an old man; Mārte, a murderer or slayer; Sarodi, the name of a caste of mendicants; Mhāli, a barber; Kaode, a crow; Chambhāde, a Chamār; Gūjde, a Gūjar; Juāde, a gambler; Lamchote, long-haired; Bodke, bald-headed; Khatīk, a butcher; Chāndekar, from Chānda; Dambhāde, one having pimples on the body; Halle, a he-buffalo; Moya, a grass, and others. The sept names show that the caste is a functional one of very mixed composition, partly recruited from members of other castes who have taken to sheep-tending and generally from the non-Aryan tribes.
2. Marriage. A man must not marry within his own sept or that of his mother, nor may he marry a first cousin. He may wed a younger sister of his wife during her lifetime, and the practice of marrying a girl and boy into the same family, called Anta Sānta or exchange, is permitted. Occasionally the husband does service for his wife in his father-in-law’s house. In Wardha the Dhangars measure the heights of a prospective bride and bridegroom with a piece of string and consider it a suitable match if the husband is taller than the wife, whether he be older or not. Marriages may be infant or adult, and polygamy is permitted, no stigma attaching to the taking of a second wife. Weddings may be celebrated in the rains up to the month of Kunwār (September), this provision probably arising from the fact that many Dhangars wander about the country during the open season, and are only at home during the rainy months. Perhaps for the same reason the wedding may, if the officiating priest so directs, be held at the house of a Brāhman. This happens only when the Brāhman has sown an offering of rice, called Gāg, in the name of the goddess Rāna Devi, the favourite deity of the Dhangars. On his way to the bride’s house the bridegroom must be covered with a black blanket. Nowadays the wedding is sometimes held at the bridegroom’s house and the bride comes for it. The caste say that this is done because there are not infrequently among the members of the bridegroom’s family widows who have remarried or women who have been kept by men of higher castes or been guilty of adultery. The bride’s female [482]relatives refuse to wash the feet of these women and this provokes quarrels. To meet such cases the new rule has been introduced. At the wedding the priest sits on the roof of the house facing the west, and the bride and bridegroom stand below with a curtain between them. As the sun is half set he claps his hands and the bridegroom takes the clasped hands of the bride within his own, the curtain being withdrawn. The bridegroom ties round the bride’s neck a yellow thread of seven strands, and when this is done she is married. Next morning a black bead necklace is substituted for the thread. The expenses of the bridegroom’s party are about Rs. 50, and of the bride’s about Rs. 30. The remaining procedure follows the customary usage of the Marātha Districts. Widows are permitted to marry again, but must not take a second husband from the sept to which the first belonged. A considerable price is paid for a widow, and it is often more expensive to marry one than a girl. A Brāhman and the mālguzār (village proprietor) should be present at the ceremony. If a bachelor marries a widow he must first go through the ceremony with a silver ring, and if the ring is subsequently lost or broken, its funeral rites must be performed. Divorce is allowed in the presence of the caste panchāyat at the instance of either party for sufficient reason, as the misconduct or bad temper of the wife or the impotency of the husband.
3. Religion. Mahādeo is the special deity of the Dhangars, and they also observe the ordinary Hindu festivals. At Diwāli they worship their goats by dyeing their horns and touching their feet. One Bahrām of Nāchangaon near Pulgaon is the tutelary deity of the Wardha Dhangars and the protector of their flocks. On the last day of the month of Māgh they perform a special ceremony called the Deo Pūja. A Dhīmar acts as priest to the caste on this occasion and fashions some figures of idols out of rice to which vermilion and flowers are offered. He then distributes the grains of rice to the Dhangars who are present, pronouncing a benediction. The Dhīmar receives his food and a present, and it is essential that the act of worship should be performed by one of this caste. In their houses they have Kul-Devi [483]and Khandoba the Marātha hero, who are the family deities. But in large families they are kept only in the house of the eldest brother. Kul-Devi or the goddess of the family is worshipped at weddings, and a goat is offered to her in the month of Chait (March). The head is buried beneath her shrine inside the house and the body is consumed by members of the family only. Khandoba is worshipped on Sundays and they identify him with the sun. Vithoba, a form of Vishnu, is revered on Wednesdays, and Bālāji, the younger brother of Rāma, on Fridays. Many families also make a representation of some deceased bachelor relative, which they call Munjia, and of some married woman who is known as Mairni or Sāsin, and worship them daily.
4. Birth, death and social status. The Dhangars burn their dead unless they are too poor to purchase wood for fuel, in which case burial is resorted to. Unmarried children and persons dying from smallpox, leprosy, cholera and snake-bite are also buried. At the pyre the widow breaks her bangles and throws her glass beads on to her husband’s body. On returning from the burning ghāt the funeral party drink liquor. Some gānja, tobacco and anything else which the deceased may have been fond of during his life are left near the grave on the first day. Mourning is observed during ten days on the death of an adult and for three days for a child. Children are usually named on the twelfth day after birth, the well-to-do employing a Brāhman for the purpose. On this day the child must not see a lamp, as it is feared that if he should do so he will afterwards have a squint. Only one name is given as a rule, but subsequently when the child comes to be married, if the Brāhman finds that its name does not make the marriage auspicious, he substitutes another and the child is afterwards known by this new name. The caste employ Brāhmans for ceremonies at birth and marriage. They eat flesh including fowls and wild pig, and drink liquor, but abstain from other unclean food. They will take food from a Kunbi, Phūlmāli or a Sunār, and water from any of the good cultivating castes. A Kunbi will take water from them. The women of the caste wear bracelets of lead or brass on the right wrist and glass bangles on the left. Permanent or temporary excommunication from caste [484]is imposed for the usual offences, and among those visited with the minor penalty are selling shoes, touching the carcase of a dog or cat, and killing a cow or buffalo, or allowing one to die with a rope round its neck. No food is cooked for five weeks in a house in which a cat has died. The social standing of the caste is low.
5. Occupation. The traditional occupation of the Dhangars is to tend sheep and goats, and they also sell goats’ milk, make blankets from the wool of sheep, and sometimes breed and sell stock for slaughter. They generally live near tracts of waste land where grazing is available. Sheep are kept in open and goats in roofed folds. Like English shepherds they carry sticks or staffs and have dogs to assist in driving the flocks, and they sometimes hunt hares with their dogs. Their dress consists frequently only of a loin-cloth and a blanket, and having to bear exposure to all weathers, they are naturally strong and hardy. In appearance they are dark and of medium size. They eat three times a day and bathe in the evening on returning from work, though their ablutions are sometimes omitted in the cold weather.
1 Compiled mainly from a paper by Kanhya Lāl, clerk in the Gazetteer office.
2 Cf. the two meanings of the word ‘stock’ in English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.246.217.40 (talk) 11:37, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Tags, unverified claims in article constantly reinserted by IPs
If you want to include information in an article, reference it. While other articles have unreferenced information, we're talking about this one. If IP editors insist on edit-warring to include unverified information (particularly describing living individuals in the 'Notable People' section) then the page will ultimately be semi-protected against anonymous editing. Avruchtalk 15:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Added few references, will come with all reference of the original article later. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.88.1.11 (talk) 16:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
