Talk:DHARMA Initiative stations

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DHARMA Initiative stations is about the locations, facilities, and contents of the stations in the TV show Lost. Please do not post Lost plot summaries or Lost character profiles. For information about Lost plot or characters please see the appropriate pages.

This article was nominated for deletion on 6 June 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

Archives Archive 1: May - July 2006

[edit] Decoy Station

Surely there should be section the decoy station in the fake village?(84.66.217.75 19:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)).

"One possible explanation about the door and its logo is that it originally belonged to a station that was never completed by Dharma, and which in that case would be the reason why one of the stations is crossed out on the blast door map viewed in Lockdown. As seen on the map in the episode Tricia Tanaka Is Dead, Dharma also had plans to expand their infrastructure by building roads on the island, but was interrupted before they got that far for a reason yet to be mentioned. Most likely because of the consequenses after the purge against "the hostiles", which is the name given the Others by Dharma in Enter 77." I'm fairly sure this is orignal research/speculation. If not, feel free to put it back. Also, could someone paste a picture of sayid at the decoy station?(84.66.218.59 19:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)).

Could someone copy the decoy station from here http://lostwiki.abc.com/page/Dharma%20Logos please? I would do it, but I don't understand the image upload process.(90.240.224.139 16:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] Episode Template

I like the episode template, however I think that instead of ep|1.01, I think we should use something like lost|s01e01. This would allow others to create similar templates for other shows and avoid confusion. Jscarle 14:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logos for the stations

I was reading a feng shui book the other day and found diagrams of the solid and broken bars that can be seen round logos like the swan. It seems that the bars themselves represent yin and yang and arranged in different combinations can represent elements and other meanings - need to look into this more - maybe this relates to island lay out too? DefsHed 87.102.37.160 11:36, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I am wondering if the logo is actually a Swan, as described, or if its in fact a serpent. The little tongue sticking out makes me suspicious. The logo resembles more of a Tao (yin/yang) type, which would relate well with the Eastern philosophy theme of the I-Ching. The Octogonal shape of the logo not only relates to the whereabouts of the stations (i.e., 8 in total and one in the center - the pearl). The pearl also is referenced when Bernard was looking for Oysters, explaining to Jin, clams like things with a Pearl. I cant verify if it was the same episide as the '?'. The I-Ching bars that wrap around the logo are the 8 basic trigrams, and from there the 64 hexagrams. If you look, each set of lines are different. I do not know if the names of each trigram (i.e. earth, wind, fire, etc. reflect on the purpose of that station).

The name of that station is "The swan". I think that's a pretty good case for the image being one of a swan. -Litefantastic 20:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Area of Study" line should be consistent

For the Swan, it says that the area of study is "Electromagnetic Research." (But how do you study research?) Anyway, I think it should be replaced with "Electromagnetism". This would also be much more consistent with the Pearl's are of study, which is labeled as "Psycology". I will change the article to reflect this. Nick 8 00:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC) Somebody should also correct the section for "The Staff." Maybe we should change "Area of Study" to "Purpose" and then change the Swan to being "Electromagnetic Research" and the Pearl to "Psycological Study" or something similar.

[edit] Brand New Washer/Dryer in The Swan?

Does anyone know why The Swan contains both a brand new Maytag or Kenmore washer and dryer. Libby brings up the same question to Hurley in the episode Fire + Water but no answer is given. It is just odd because the station contains all these items from the 70's/80's with the exception of the washer/dryer. After viewing the episode "Lockdown" I kind of assumed it might have been part of a DHARMA Initiative food/supply air drop.

[edit] TV IV Attribution

Portions of this article have been copied from The TV IV link without attribution which is a violation of our license. Please add attributions or remove the copied content. Thank you. --CygnusTM 19:21, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Hydra

I guess this place explains the origin of the shark with the DHARMA logo on its tail that attacked the raft, and the mysterious polar bear (both from Season 1). I'm not positive thats where they came from but it would make sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.185.166.215 (talk • contribs)

This page shouldn't have any speculation or theories. Therefore the line "The station could be the second dotted outline with "C3?" written inside it on the blast door map as it is the only station left to be identified" should be deleted. Anyone else have an opinion? Dudeman1st 08:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- That's ok with me. --Bisco 11:14, 11 October 2006 (UTC) Further explanation: if anyone reading the article wants to make conclusions which station on the map the Hydra could be, which one is left, they are free to do so. No need to do it in the article. Delete the sentence. --Bisco 12:20, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Also I am adding that Sawyer finds "some yet unidentified animal feed" along with the fish biscuit.Dudeman1st 08:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes, this is pure speculation. I have double checked and on the map The Hydra is by no means "the only station left to be identified." I will delete it.Dudeman1st 14:12, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
It's mentioned that the Hydra has substandard medical equipment, but Jack was actually walked over to a new building, past Kate and Sawyer in the episode Every Man For Himself. -Neveralone 19:34, 25 December 2006 (AEST)

[edit] Acceptable information for the article

Almost all content in the Hydra section has been removed (Revision as of 2006-10-11T14:59:33) by User:Jtrost as being original research and speculations. Still I think, a certain amount of original research is necessary and acceptable for this kind of article. Instead of adding and removing content back and forth, can we maybe discuss the information-to-be-included first here? --Bisco 16:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, I was really puzzled as to why Jtroust removed almost all information. It was definitely revelaed in the episode 301 that A)There is some kind of zoo B) they are underwater in an aquarium and C)There were bears, sharks and dolphins housed in the area. That is not original research and belongs in the description of the location along with details of the surroundings of the characters. I will ask Jtroust not to delete without discussion.Dudeman1st 01:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

My edit was made with Wikipedia policy in mind because the description of The Hydra violated almost every policy Wikipedia has in place. Drawing a correlation between the cages and The Hydra is original research. Using words such as "apparently", "possibly", and "it appears" is a good sign that statements are speculative, as were the statements I removed. Using an image of the shark there is making a connection between The Hydra and the shark, which again is original research. The last paragraph was an episode synopsis of episode 3x01. There is a separate article for that. We should try to be extra vigilant about the information contained within this article because if we don't control it then it gets way out of hand. Right now, all we know about this station is that it's underwater, some animals once inhabited it, and there are security monitors in it. That's it. Jtrost (^T | C | _#) 02:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

- Right now, all we know about this station is that it's underwater, some animals once inhabited it, and there are security monitors in it. That's it. Sorry, dude, that's just not right. As Sawyer looks out of his cage there is a definite Dharma image (I will upload screenshots) which has got to be a Hydra (I guess you can argue that it might not be a Hydra). The Hydra image IMHO is the same one as on the aquarium door. Just because the zoo is located outside the interior doesn't make it not part of the facility. If necessary, we can say the cages are outside, but it seems pretty clear that the cages are part of the facility. Also Juliet clearly states that there were "dolphins, too" housed in the facility (36:07) after Jack asks if the facility is for sharks; this clearly indicates that dolphins and sharks are housed in the aquarium (unless of course Juliet is lying). Also, Tom says it "only took the bears two hours" to figure out the feeding mechanism (34:17). Also at 20:50 Juliet says the red button is "for emergencies" and later uses it to flush water from the facility. I think all of this can be added to what we know about the facility.Dudeman1st 06:41, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I think this could be added. Of course the article should not claim that there were bears and sharks. If it's added then it should be written in the way Dudeman1st did above. That this is information given by characters and not shown. Otherwise I agree with Jtrost about the policies. --Bisco 10:27, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Added screenshotsDudeman1st 06:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

It's good to have a picture of the Hydra logo. But there shouldn't be more than one. --Bisco 10:27, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

User 151.199.193.152 added a lot of speculation to the article, but I like his/her format. I will remove spec items and clean up a little.Dudeman1st 00:04, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the outcome is very good: [1]. I've added some grammar/format corrections. --Bisco 15:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pearl Location?

Do we really know the location of the Pearl? Article says, "Identified, enigmatically, by a dotted outline with "C4?" written inside it on the black light map." I mean the question mark is in the middle of the map, and there are two other "?" Also it is Station 5 but C4? I will go back and watch the episode . . .Is it on the drawn map? Dudeman1st 12:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

You're right. This seems to be an unverified claim (judging from what is written in the article, I haven't seen this episode). On your other question: station 5 doesn't have to be C5 on the map, as there are "Swan" (station 3) and "C3" written on the map seperately. --Bisco 12:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

The episode ? (Lost) indicates that the Pearl is rather the big question mark with the dotted line in the center of the map instead of "C4?" or "C3?". --Bisco 13:41, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

- OK I have checked Locke's map in the episode and on Lostpedia. The question mark is definitely somewhere in the middle of the stations, which is definitely not C4. I am going to revise the section to read that way. Also I am going to try to add the image of Locke's hand-drawn map from Lostpedia.Dudeman1st 14:12, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added notice tag

I added a Notice tag in hopes of avoiding further synopses on this page. LMK what you guys think. If you think it's too unfriendly or want to change the text of the template, I am sure we can hammer that out.Dudeman1st 08:06, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

It's a notice for editors and belongs on the talk page. Someone already moved it here. But a good idea. --Bisco 22:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

^ Orientation film for 'Station 3' (QuickTime). does no longer exist. Anyone with at new link ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.76.210.131 (talk • contribs)

Entertainment weekly link doesn't work anymore. --Bisco 02:38, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Swan Is?

Should everything at the beginning of the section about the Swan be changed to past tense since the Swan no longer exists? --Kahlfin 02:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Cerberus?

Apparently on the blast door map, there's a reference to a station called The Cerberus. It was mentioned on the first UK podcast. Is that true and should it be mentioned here?? — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 14:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mural

I don't recall seeing the mural in any of the episodes. Which episode did it come from? I'm quite surprised I missed it. codu (t/c) 01:16, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

It's seen in the episode when they first enter the hatch, and several others. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:41, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Station Numbers

The numbers for the Swan, Pearl, and Flame have been established on the show, but do we really have sufficient reason to call The Arrow #1? This apparently comes from DVD extras which got the Swan's number wrong. Tulane97 20:41, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mittelos Bioscience and map

Since Mittelos Bioscience is fake as stated by Gregg Nations here and here the section "The Islands" and the image next to it should be removed. --Ummi9999 16:55, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lostopedia licensing?

Who the hell removed the "First Seen" and other parts? Does Lostopedia have some sort of copyright on this? Mikael GRizzly 20:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

An editor took a template from lostpedia.com, Template:Ep and switched a few articles to reference it. If the template gets changed, it changes all articles that use it. I started a discussion about whether we should use the template at all at Talk:Lost (TV series)#Template for episode name linking. --Milo H Minderbinder 20:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

AS I SAID BEFORE, it is for LOST only, and not to have other shows added to it! It works perfectly fine that way. -- Silva Storm

That doesn't necessarily mean other editors want to use it. --Milo H Minderbinder 12:30, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I know that, but it does make it easier. -- Silva Storm

[edit] Hieroglyphs

Could someone cite the translation of the hieroglyphs, which translated for me as a command to die? Korvac 12:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Named for their shapes

Each initiative station we've seen has a name that relates to the shape of its layout.

The Pearl is roughly a circle when viewed from above
The Arrow is basically a long hall that branches into two areas
The Staff's "V" shape fits into the bottom part of a caduceus (medical emblem)
The Flame, besides blowing up in flames, has a vertical structure to it (basement, ground level, dish on top) like a flame
The Swan seems to have been quite swan-shaped when it was drawn on the blast-door map
and the Hydra is a sprawling complex (compared to other stations) with lots of "tentacle" facilities.

Kd5npf 07:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Themed around the god Apollo

Should this be mentioned?--86.43.64.115 14:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dharmamart

Technical question: This show has featured unending volumes of DHARMA products - DHARMA corn, DHARMA beer, DHARMA chips, DHARMA ranch compote, etc. Who makes all these things for ABC? Is there a facory somewhere that is producing industrial-sized quantites of DHARMA stuff for this show? -155.42.191.90 05:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

i am guessing there is an office printer somewhere who prints on stickey labels, then the labels are applied to cans and other staff... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.230.229.84 (talk) 15:54, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] own articles

gotta make own articles for every stations —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.68.188.156 (talk) 20:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC).

Don't do it. This is not a fansite. I'm too late now. All of those should be deleted and they will be. --thedemonhog talk • edits • count 04:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Split

The article is becoming more and more cramped and untidy, perhaps we should consider breaking it up? 62.136.45.231 12:01, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Sawyerwithlockesmap.jpg

Image:Sawyerwithlockesmap.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 11:54, 6 June 2007 (UTC)