Talk:DFB Cup 2006-07

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Do we know the possible match ups for the Semi Finals? I'm working on a Bracket for it. Kingjeff 22:20, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I hate brackets. Johnn 7 12:49, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

The brackets serve no purpose in this competition. The games are determined by a random draw between each round, not via a pre-determined bracket Sinfony81 14:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter. Eventually you can fill them. Kingjeff 16:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The brackets are all mixed up again since the semi-final draw. I don't have the time or desire to fix them. Does anyone else remember the good old days when this article didn't have the silly brackets and the Round of 16 was called the Round of 16? Johnn 7 05:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "3rd Round" versus "Last 16"/"Round of 16"

Just providing a reference point for future reverts. Kingjeff's reasonings in favour of the former have gone from "DFB actually calls it the 3rd Round" to "My preference is 3rd Round" to "Why don't you try this on UEFA Champions League and UEFA Cup articles?". Then, when I enlightened him to the fact that the 2006-07 UEFA Cup article uses "Round of 16", he tries again with "That's not the point. The point is that the governing bodies (in this case DFB) calls it the 3rd Round." - Dudesleeper · Talk 17:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Look here and tell me what it's called. Kingjeff 17:50, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

They call it the 3rd Round. - Dudesleeper · Talk 18:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. That's justification right there to call it the 3rd Round. Kingjeff 18:05, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Hrm. How does the DFB justify what should go in the English Wikipedia? - Dudesleeper · Talk 18:09, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

The DFB doesn't call it the 3rd Round. The company they hired to translate their webpage called it the 3rd Round. Johnn 7 03:59, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

And what Justification does Wikipedia have in naming a portion of a DFB event? Kingjeff 18:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

The justification was that it's more user-friendly. Sich erinnern? - Dudesleeper · Talk 18:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this adds to user friendliness at all. Kingjeff 19:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

It provides the reader with the number of teams remaining in the competition. How is that not helpful to the user? Should quarter-finals and semi-finals be renamed 8th Round and 9th Round, etc.? - Dudesleeper · Talk 19:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

But that's not the name of those rounds. This wouldn't happen in any other article. Why should it happen in this paticular article? Kingjeff 19:38, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what you're basing your naming of rounds on; there's no written rule. Rounds should be numbered from 1 to x, but we change the names to make it easier to understand, which is the part you're not getting. - Dudesleeper · Talk 19:48, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

How does it make it easier to understand? I think 3rd Round is pretty simple to grasp. Kingjeff 17:29, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

So if I tell you it's the third round of the (fictional, before you go looking) African Tea Cup tonight, how many teams are still in it? - Dudesleeper · Talk 17:43, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Annnnyway. I'll let you keep it as 3rd Round because I know you prefer to have control over articles you've either started or have put time into. That's the reason I didn't even respond to your invitation to join your Football League: Season-by-season WikiProject. - Dudesleeper · Talk 17:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not controling this article. Consensus says I'm right and you're wrong. The fact you didn't respond shows that you are a very rude person. Kingjeff 18:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

This is kind of a funny discussion. Both of you are grasping at straws. The official name of this round is Achtelfinale which is a German word that doesn't really translate into English. Literally it means eighth-final. Either 3rd Round or Round of 16 is an appropriate translation. Johnn 7 03:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Johnn makes a valid point, the DFB itself uses neither '3rd round' nor 'round of 16', so we can't rely on using a German source that doesn't directly translate as solid evidence of the 'correct' English term to use here. I think 'round of 16' would be the more valid choice of the two here, simply because it gives the reader the better understanding of at what stage the competition is at then - the 3rd round of a tournament could conceivably still included hundreds of teams (i.e. the FA Cup 3rd Preliminary Round). Round of 16 therefore is more more useful to gage a team's progress. For this reason I have also used it in all the earlier DFB Pokal wiki pages I have created, and so to employ it here would allow for greater consistency.

Furthermore, I still feel the brackets are pointless when a tournament's rounds are decreed by random draws inbetween games, for World Cups, European Championships, UEFA Cups etc they are perfect, but for the Pokal they're an unnecessary addition and mislead the reader than the teams enter into games knowing their likely opponents afterward. For example, at present a reader sees that the bracket shows that Nurnberg will face Wolfsburg in the semi finals, yet the draw has not even take place!

I know this seems to all be anti-Kingjeff - given my ideas have largely contradicted your plans for the page - but it's not meant in that spirit at all, merely to offer my two cents on how I feel the page would greatest serve readers and present only the necessary information, not frivolous extras that only add text, but not detail. Sinfony81 15:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea what you're talking about. Kingjeff 16:11, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

You can't understand English? I don't think the English wiki is the right place for you then, my friend Sinfony81 16:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

It's more like your writing ability. Maybe you should go to ESL class. Kingjeff 16:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

My writing ability is not in question, your interpretative skills might be though. I wrote a straight-forward comment on my personal opinion of how this page should be for the greater good of all readers. I even made sure to stress that this was in no way a personal attack on your thoughts, yet you seem unable to rise over the playground bitching you obviously feel most comfortable in. Why don't you wiki link 'playground' for me now or something as a comeback - or alternatively, maybe some logical adult discussion!? Or am I asking too much? Sinfony81 16:43, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Knock-out template

Why don't these articles display the final rounds with something like this?

	Last 16 19-20 December 2006				Quarter-finals 27-28 February 2007				Semi-finals 17-18 April 2007				Final 26 May 2007
	SpVgg Greuther Fürth	1
	VfL Wolfsburg	3
					VfL Wolfsburg	2
					Alemannia Aachen	0
	Alemannia Aachen	4
	FC Bayern Munich	2
									VfL Wolfsburg	0
									VfB Stuttgart	1
	VfL Bochum	1
	VfB Stuttgart	4
					VfB Stuttgart	2
					Hertha BSC Berlin	0
	VfL Osnabrück	0
	Hertha BSC Berlin	3
													VfL Wolfsburg
													1. FC Nürnberg
	1. FC Nürnberg (pen.)	0 (2)
	SpVgg Unterhaching	0 (1)
					1. FC Nürnberg (pen.)	0 (4)
					Hannover 96	0 (2)
	Hannover 96	1
	MSV Duisburg	3
									1. FC Nürnberg	4
									Eintracht Frankfurt	0
	Kickers Offenbach	2
	Wacker Burghausen	1
					Kickers Offenbach	0
					Eintracht Frankfurt	3
	Eintracht Frankfurt (a.e.t)	3
	1. FC Köln	1

It's a little fiddly getting the order right, but it still looks clearer than using the tables. - 52 Pickup 10:36, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I just saw at the top of this page that there's divided opinion over the usage of these things. Oh well. It's there now if you want it. - 52 Pickup 10:38, 24 May 2007 (UTC)