Talk:Devil's Bridge, Ceredigion

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Should this be disambig'd before it gets too crowded? William M. Connolley 18:45, 22 October 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Error in photo caption?

I'm virturally certain that this is a veiw upstream, rather than downstream as the caption suggests. The Mynach flows through the crevice toward the viewer.

Do we need additional verification before a change is entered?

Thomas


I am certain this is looking upstream too. I sampled it every month for 5 years in the 1970's and had to walk down the tourist trail to get to the Rheidol but had to go upsteam throuigh the Oak woods to sample the Mynach. Velela 19:09, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I took the pic. I tell you it is looking downstream! William M. Connolley 20:15, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Allright; but I have a question about the naming. I notice that you initiated the name change when you called for a disambig (which was a good idea). But what if someone now wanted to create a new, inclusive page on Devil's Bridges in general, of which there are many throughout Europe? (I'm still trying to find out just how many there are -- there isn't a good index yet.) I'm considering creating an account and creating such a page. I read that Wikipedia discourages the uses of plural nouns in titles, hence no Devil's Bridges, which is awkward anyway. Devil's Bridge is a general term applied to many bridges associated with similar legends, and should apply to all the bridges together. Thomas

Getting an account is a good idea. A page abouot the many DB's is also good. Page names... less sure. Don't worry too much, they can always be moved William M. Connolley 08:51, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed revision to Devil's Bridge entry

I would like to invite discussion on how to implement the forthcoming changes to this entry. There are at least twenty Devil's Bridges throughout Europe (and still counting). These bridges provide fertile ground for Folkloristics and the study of the transmission of myth. My intention is to expand the scope of this page so it more appropriately reflects the collective nature implied by the title.

The primary subject of the current page is the well-known bridge in Wales [1]. This remarkable bridge and it's environs have been a subject of wonder for centuries. It has even been mentioned that the area was a tourism destination as far back as the Roman era. Perhaps the current contents merit their own page, and should be relocated and renamed?

The obvious problem with keeping the Wales and UK bridge information on the same page (after the page has been revised) is that the page will illustrate the Devil's Bridge myth as a widespread Faustian phenomenon which is applied to many bridges, but the page would include (and focus on) only two bridges. My plan is to go forward and add the changes to the top of the page (within the next day or two), and request advice and assistance in deciding how to handle the results.

I will add a disclaimer up front: I own a web page devoted to Devil's Bridges[2] (which will soon be migrating to it's own url). I've been fascinated with the phenomenon ever since visiting the Wales bridge, and would like to help make Wikipedia's entry reflect the near-universal nature of this piece of history and folklore. Thanks, Woodlandpath 22:27, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


Comment First of all, I'd suggest copying this proposal to Talk:Devil's_Bridge. (Done! --Woodlandpath 22:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)) I don't know that much about the subject, but here's how'd I'd approach such situations in general:
  1. Is one particular Devil's Bridge the most notable? Assuming that the one in Wales is, you could have "Devil's Bridge" redirect to "Devil's Bridge (Wales)", with a disambigutation link at the top. The disambig page could list other Devil's Bridge entries, with a short intro on the general etymology. I couldn't think of a very similar example (i.e., a named shared by multiple places with a common etymological root) but I guess I would be a hybrid between Downtown and London.
  2. An alternative approach would be to have "Devil's Bridge" link to the general etymology page, with a list of links to other Devil's Bridges. See the entry for Springfield for an example. OhNoitsJamieTalk 19:00, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


Reply: No single Devil's Bridge is most notable. One may be more valued for it's beauty (Lucca, Italy), one for the technological achievement (St Gotthard, Switzerland), and there are a few which have such fully realized legends (Beaugency and Valentre, France) that they are remarkable for that fact alone. It's all over the map. Thanks for the input. --Woodlandpath 22:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Additional note: I've just reread my original proposal above and realize that it appears to focus entirely on folklore and myth. This isn't the intention of the proposed changes. What I find most relevant about these bridges is their technological accomplishment, their beauty, and economic and strategic importance to the communities they served. --Woodlandpath 22:59, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

You can't change the subject of an article like that! — Dunc|☺ 08:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Reply: What if someone wanted to read about the Devil's Bridge in Switzerland, or one of the bridges in France or Italy? . . If they punched in Devil's Bridge all they'd find is the Welsh bridge.

The title of the article is Devil's Bridge, a collective term. The Welsh bridge (Pontarfynach) is one of many Devil's Bridges, each of which has their own specific name. How does someone write a general article about all 20 (or more) Devil's Bridges? Any suggestions?

Yes, it was a mismash. You can see (above on this page) that I requested guidance on how to post a more general article, a couple weeks before I posted this article (perhaps a disambig or move the Welsh and UK bridges to their own pages ?). It was suggested that I just go ahead and start the change and we could correct it later... --Woodlandpath 02:01, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

If there is more than one which is referred to in English as Devil's Bridge, then move Devil's Bridge to Devil's Bridge, Ceredigion and create a disambiguation page. — Dunc|☺ 12:14, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal for organisation

How does this sound?

  • Move the Welsh Devil's Bridge to Devil's Bridge, Ceredigion
  • Merge the Cumbria Devil's Bridge with Kirkby Lonsdale, with Devil's Bridge, Kirkby Lonsdale as a redirect
  • Move the general info to Devil's Bridge (folklore) (possibly with a small b)
  • Link the lot with a disambiguation page.

To avoid the dab page from getting cluttered with irrelevancies, I suggest the list goes to Devil's Bridge (folklore). A Google search suggests that the Welsh one is by far the best known, with the Cumbria one in second place. Blisco 13:52, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, following today's revert war I've been bold and (more-or-less) made these changes, though I decided in the end that having both a "folklore" and a disambiguation page would be superfluous. I apologise doing a page move rather than creating a new article has made things a bit messy, but that's the way round that was suggested, and it should satisfy Duncharris's insistence that you "can't change the subject of an article". -- Blisco 18:37, 3 July 2006 (UTC)