Talk:Deus Ex/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Total Conversions

According to Wikipedia's own definition of total conversions, there are none for DX. There are, at best, partial conversions. The Modding Links section is already excessively subdivided as it is, so the Total Conversions and Fan Missions (calling them Singleplayer expansions is redundant-- DX is a single-player game) should be merged. I made this change once already, and whoever blindly reverted the edit destroyed minor edits throughout the entire article. Clayhalliwell 16:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, lemme tackle the issues one at a time.
  • While there are a large number of subsections in the Modding Links section, combining two subsections is not going to help the "clutter" very much, and making the information less organized just so things look better is, frankly, wrong.
  • The Wikipedia definition of Total Conversion is innacurate. According to that definition Counter-Strike isn't a TC because it reuses some Half-Life textures and models. (though not many) While the scale of the TCs listed in this article are not quite the same as Counter-Strike, they are still (in my view) TCs, as they incorportate significant amounts of new content and have virtually nothing to do with Deus Ex itself; in those mods the game is merely used as a means to create something new and unrelated.
  • Deus Ex is not only a single-player game; there is a multiplayer component as well, and there are a small number of multiplayer mutators in existance for the game. (Though I've yet to find them anywhere other than on specific DXMP servers) However, I do agree that "Singleplayer" is redundant in the title, since one can generally assume that an "Expansion" or "Fan Mission" will not be multiplayer.
  • The edits you made to the other sections of the article as well as those not directly related to the reclassification were preserved, save for a rewording I felt was unnecessary. (Though I missed the correction on the HDTP name)
-- Y|yukichigai 11:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Lord Brinne

I am unsure if my addition is worthy enough to be included. Cpuwhiz11 20:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I see no problem with it (though I did add that it was in the NYC cemetery) but we may want to find a reference about Brinne/Iburg so that people unfamiliar with him will understand its significance. --Chrismith 00:06, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Who's Bill Iburg? --70.142.40.34 09:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

A little googling shows he was some sort of RPG fan that killed himself. Apparently Morrowind has his ashes somewhere as an easter egg.--Drat (Talk) 09:35, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I was a bit confused as well. The reference definitely needs more explanation, or perhaps there should even be a Bill Iburg article or section of the Morrowind article that the DX article could link to.
The Morrowind bit would likely be in the same spirit. It came out after Deus Ex. If there are news articles, etc, about the person, that can be used as sources, it may be worth creating an article, though I wouldn't be surprised to see a prod or afd tag on it before long.--Drat (Talk) 10:51, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps a Might and Magic IV section then, or whatever M&M game it was that he was known on. The fact that a semi-famous player committed suicide and was then paid tribute to with references in a few subsequent games is certainly information worth putting in a game article if it isn't able to stand up as its own article. -- Y|yukichigai 11:00, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good.--Drat (Talk) 11:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Helios ending NPOV?

"uncomfortable peace offered by the rule of an omnipotent computer." Possibly a NPOV issue? --Worthstream 14:03, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Characters

Does anyone else think the protagonists/antagonists classification for the characters section is not adequate for this article? If you pay attention, the story behind Deus Ex is too complex to divide the characters between "good guys" and "bad guys". Now, I know the protagonist/antagonist literary definition is a little more wider than that (just check their respective articles), but for a situation like this it just won't do right. I belive a classification between "main characters" and "secondary characters" would be more appropriate. That of course would ask for a different sorting of characters, but that's alright. Any opinions? I feel like fixing it right now. – Mackeriv 20:07, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I strongly agree! Artist 00:38, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)
OK, as the person who put that there, I see in hindsight that it was a bit simplistic. I think either a "primrary/secondary characters" list or prehaps a list by organization (UNATCO, NSF, Illuminati) would be better. Although I see that an organization list might be just as useless as some character's alingments are sort of fluid. So a main/secondary list might be better. Or maybe none... I just thought that the block list could have done with some categorizing. I'll take them out altogether and it can be resorted later if it's worth it. TPK 02:13, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Character pages

Is an article about every minor character encyclopedic? Nicolette Duclare was just created, could that not be part of the page here instead? - cohesion ☎ 01:32, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yes, please make a list of them and put it here, we can put it under == characters == in the article and then just redirect it here, in the unlikely event that they outgrow it we can then put them back. Much better to have one good article than 20 stubs. -- Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 09:25, 2004 Sep 20 (UTC)
There already is a list under characters, I will just add the text of those articles into the main article with edits for context if there are no objections. I'll give it a while to see if anyone doesn't like that idea. - cohesion ☎ 06:52, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Being a bit blind over here, yeah, you can do it now though, there is already consensus for this kind of thing with video games, just look at talk:starCraft, -- Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 07:49, 2004 Sep 21 (UTC)

External links

Does anyone else think the External Links section is absurdly big? Seriously, I've never seen an article with a links section as big as that one. That's just too much, and it's full of links to sites that don't even need to be there. Just unnecessary clutter. Things like conspiracy theory links certainly don't belong there. Even less when there are other articles that already deal with that kind of subject.

I say we should keep the links that are really related to Deus Ex only, and from those, the most important ones. – Kaonashi 03:38, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Dealt with. – Kaonashi 23:47, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Anna Navarre

Anna Navarre accent is no israely. her accent sound more russian to me. --Artist 00:49, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't know about her accent, but you can check Deus Ex's official website. Take a look at the Art section. She's indeed Israeli. – Kaonashi 01:36, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
She's a Russian-born Israeli, probably. There are plenty of those. --80.178.227.147 17:27, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

JC Denton Bio

Um, the JC Denton bio in this article seems *completely* wrong to me. Paul was supposed to be killed with his parents but escaped? Surely not. Paul was a UNATCO agent, placed there *by* MJ12, and they didn't try to kill him, as far as I can tell, until after he returned from Hong Kong. Why would they try to kill him, find that they failed, and then place him at UNATCO anyway? I'm inclined to completely rewrite this but now I'm wondering if the PC and PS2 versions are more different than I realized... or if I'm just utterly mistaken. Does anyone else have a take on this? Solemnavalanche 01:22, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Looks like the bio is accurate to the Deus Ex continuity document linked at the bottom of the article. However, some of the document doesn't quite jive with what I remember from playing through the game a few times - perhaps some of the original story was altered in the final game. CamTarn 13:15, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Quite. Initially the Deus Ex and JC Denton pages were separate, and the JC Denton one was appalling, though detailed considering the depth of information provided in game. I used the continuity bible extensively in rewriting the article, which may well account for discrepancies.

Mistargeted character bios

I believed that some of the character bios were curt and mistargeted. While some, like JC and Paul were given excellent treatment, a description of Sam Carter as a (paraphrase) "quartermaster that will supply you with weapons sometimes" is short, but far more importantly, written from the point of view of a "tips and tricks" website. This is embodied especially with the use of the second person, which makes the assumption that the reader is playing Deus Ex and looking for advice.

On that note, I expanded and reworded the entires for Reyes, Carter, Tong, and Jock to reflect more of the depth of character that the first half of the article claimed, as well as giving them a treatment from a point of view outside the assumption that "the reader is JC." --144.89.238.248 22:55, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thanks

I want to say that it's really a pleisure to see that someone decided to create this article... maybe one day I'll translate it in the Italian wikipedia. I think that Deus ex could be the best game I ever played. Although the second chapter(Invisible war) is not as good as the first. Bye Balrog 14:17, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Carter's leg

Latest anon addition:

"(Though never explicit [sic] mentioned in the game, Carter was retired from army service after losing one of his legs. He currently uses a mechanical prosthesis)"

And how exactly is this know if it is never explicitly mentioned in the game? T.PK 12:34, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps in the manual? Perhaps it is hinted at? In any case i don't even recall him having an artificial limb yet alone its history. -- Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 15:47, 2004 Dec 21 (UTC)
If you to go the official web site, under the Gallery section Sam is explicitly listed as having a lost leg replaced with a cybernetic one. -Rjo 19:27, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)
Also Some early screen shots of a beta version of Sam Carter's Model and early concept art clearly shows his leg to be mechanical.
Found here and here

scratch that

i thought there wasn't a mention of deus ex 2 but there was--so instead i realised deus ex 2 was a blank page and made a redirect...at least something productive came of it.Lockeownzj00 10:01, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Clean Up

The story line as laid out in the article, most notably the bio for JC Denton, is so disparate from the actual plot as I know it (and I know it very well) that I am tempted to nuke most of this article. It might be best to trim this down to just a short blurb. Describe the basic plot (i.e. Future, Nanotech, Terrorism), then some background about the game itself as a commercial item (talk about the level of success it achieved), and then have some links at the bottom that people can follow up for more depth.

Since the article is already marked for clean up, I have decided to proceed with my idea. If this is a problem, let me know. I just want it to be clear I am not trying to vandalize the page. Guardian 08:21, 18 March 2005 (UTC)

I think the removal of the Character and Organization sections is too drastic, although it may be better to relocate them to a separate article (Characters in Deus Ex). I do agree that the story described is inaccurate, especially since it was drawn from a single source and conflicts with other sources (including the game itself).
In my opinion the article should be laid out something like this:
  • Introduction
  • Gameplay description
  • Plot summary
    • Conspiracy themes
    • Major characters (with link to a more extensive Characters in Deus Ex)
  • Technical details
  • External links
By the way, standard convention is to place new comments at the bottom of the Talk page. --Poiuyt Man (talk) 10:10, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Ah, I'm new and didn't realize. Thanks for the tip. --Guardian 17:39, 27 March 2005 (UTC)
I have to agree that removing the Character and Storyline sections entirely seems too drastic a solution. Maybe a seperate "Deus Ex Characters" article or something along those lines would be preferable. Joylock 3:00, April 22 2005.
While the section seems to have been removed anyway 69.156.22.23 01:29, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
Seems that Guardian never went ahead with his idea. I retrieved the deleted Characters information and moved it to Deus Ex characters. There's a link at the top of Deus Ex pointing to it. --Poiuyt Man talk 06:36, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Deus Ex Movie

Where on IMDB does it say that plans for a Deus Ex movie have been cancelled?

It used to list production as cancelled but it has now changed to unknown and the release date has been bumped up a year.Walton Simons

Characters

How come there is nothing about the characters in Deus ex?, And every search or link to a Deus Ex character just redirects to this page? (please sign your posts with four tildes ~~~~, which become a name and date)

The deleted Characters section has been moved to Deus Ex characters; the characters will now redirect there. --Poiuyt Man talk 06:37, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

There is an article called Deus Ex characters but I think it ought to be linked someone on the main Deus Ex page. I suggest somebody create a link to it from there.