Talk:Desi

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[edit] Older discussions

Pakis/Bangladeshis are not DESIS read Two Nation Theory propagated by Jinnah

  • First of all sign yourself, if you assume your opinons. What can I say? Wikipedia's articles are about reality not about wishful thinking. People like Jinnah and people like you try for many decades to carve out different nations in the Subcontinent with painful results. But the contemporary ground reality is that all South Asians are known as Desis. I saw your other vandalisms (anti-dravidian, anti-muslim) in other articles and I like to tell you that what you writed is just an point of view about the Subcontinental society followed by more or less people. Desiphral 13:03, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


Hm. This looks rather like a dictionary entry to me. Just remember that Wikipedia is not a dictionary but Wiktionary is. --mav 07:08 22 May 2003 (UTC)

If this is from the Wiktionary, it should go back there... Dysprosia 11:42, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)


May be this entry needs more information but it is not a dictionary entry as Fresh off the boat is not.

N2271

    • Desi** sounds obnoxious.Can we please refer to them as Indians.

Also there in so called Desi culture/literature etc etc.

  • I think that it is explained pretty clear in the article that Desi does not contain the same semantic area as Indian, it involves all South Asia and it's culture. Desiphral 15:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

5amuel 13:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)== Desi is NOT South Asian ==

Desi refers specifically to someone from India.

  • Yes, there are some people from India who don't like to be associated with the other Desi, for political reasons (choose for you a muslim name, 'cause we are not the same). But in reality the name Desi is used for this very reason, to convey that we share a common culture, beyond political boundaries. That South Asia is "hamara desh". Desiphral 15:19, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I agree that it's largely a political matter whether people choose to identify as desis or not (as with almost any other identity). It would be fair to say it's contested by some (as evidenced here) as including only Indians, but not to say that the term literally means Indian. Many people, myself included, use it specifically to avoid national identity politics and develop a broader, more inclusive identity. Especially for those of us in the diaspora, who can't really afford to alienate our desi brothers and sisters from all over. -Saurav, 21 January 2006
I think it's definitely Indian, not pak and bangladeshi.--Dangerous-Boy 21:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

DESI was not initially 'invented' to mean South Asian

Even if the root of the word make it is seem so close to the idea of 'motherland' i've read a whole bunch of different folk explanations of the word, and most of them differ on the particulars. The world in some cases seems to have referred to 'village.'

For another attestation to this, check out this blog entry where a 'desi' daughter uses the word, and her indian immigrant mother is confused, go to: http://www.popandpolitics.com/articles_detail.cfm?articleID=1515

When i was younger, cousins in New Delhi used the word in a manner very similar to the way americans use of the word "hick". Some country bumpkin all the way out there away from urban culture. You see an offer of this explanation in this article: http://www.centralchronicle.com/20050704/0407015.htm

The article above goes on to say that the word is going to be used to launch a new MTV channel, MTV Desi, for the South Asian immigrant generation in the US and including suggests that the channel will include videos from acts such as M.I.A (originally Sri Lankan Tamil and then British and ultimately, pop citizen of the world.)

Regardless of the origin of the word, the usage of it as a catch-all term to refer to anything with a vaguely pan-south-asian origin appears to be particular to the diaspora, and from what i've seen, especially prevalent in the US and Canada. The confusion about what the term really means might be alluded to in the ABCD acronym. But it is problematic to assume that anything that is Indian is 'desi' and you are safer using the word when you are relating it to a product of the Indian diaspora.

Just because a writer or musician is of South Asian origin does NOT make them Desi. A desi writer would concentrate on themes relating to the Diaspora and ideally should be living in the Diaspora as well.

Since we are talking Identity politics, here you can't write it, unless you are it.

Arundhati Roy is about as "desi" as Indira Ghandi was "desi". She chooses to criticise globalisation and American foreign policy. She occasionally travels abroad for various reasons (including social protest and increasing awareness of social issues) but she spent her entire formative life in India, went to school in Kerala, etc. As far as I've heard recently, she's made a conscious decision to remain living in India. Is she considered 'desi' just because she is writing about modern issues? Or because several characters in her only published work of fiction work left India and then returned? Then anyone writing a novel in India with indian themes that is not writing about ancient times or who allows one of the characters to step outside the political borders of South Asia is considered "desi." That would be a meaningless extension of the term.

An author like Bharathi Mukherjee who has written multiple books on themes of Indian immigrant experiences in the US, and who has made quotes such as "I am an American writer of Bengali origin" is a better example to me of desi literature. As would be Meera Syal, actress in the British Sitcom Goodness Gracious Me and author of the book "Anita and Me." These are authors who consciously present themselves and their work simultaneously as consisting of influences from their culture of origin and their current country of residence. 5amuel 13:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


I cannot understand why there should be so much discussion. Desi is a common noun of Sanskrit origin used in the Sub-continent. Desh means Country Desi means Native or ‘of this country’ Paradesi means Foreigner or ‘not of this country’ Videshi means Foreign That's all that there is to it.

[edit] Pronunciation

I fixed the pronunciation. The word "desi" is not pronounced with a linguadental fricative (as in English "they") and the "e" represents a pure vowel, not a diphthong (as in English "they").

yes desi refers to south asians and soo mind it

[edit] Sanskrit word

The Sanskrit word is not desh but deśaḥ (sometimes transliterated instead as deshaḥ). Desh would be its equivalent in modern Prakrits, I think. However, I'm not sure best how to fix this, especially since it links to Desh, which appears to describe a particular deśaḥ, so I'm just leaving this comment.

[edit] People from Guyana and Trinidad are not considered Desi.

People from Guyana and Trinidad are not considered Desi. Please people, get that straight. Then why not call everyone in the world with some Indian in their blood, Desi. The reason the word was created in the first place was to differentiate between all the different "Indians" in this world. There is more to being Indian and Desi then listening to Indian music and watching Bollywood films.

User:Dilkaraja please sign your edits. To do so, type ~~~~ Many of the people from those parts (at least amongst those of Indian origin) apparently do consider themselves Desi -- In many contexts, the term Desi encompasses people from throughout the Indian subcontinent/South Asian diaspora.

Arun 17:49, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


The reason why the term was “invented” in the first place was to differentiate Indians (Pakistani, etc.), to group them into one specific community. Just because your ancestors were from India (Pakistan, etc.) and were indentured servants sent to Guyana or Trinidad, does not allow you to call yourself a Desi. We are not talking about third generation of family history, we are talking about five generations and up. I can understand them calling themselves Indian, which is still politically incorrect. I don’t think you clearly understand the use of the term Desi.

18:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC) Dilkaraja

This is your point of view. The distinction you make between people with more or less generations out of the Subcontinent is not at all relevant. Even if they left the home much time ago, they sticked to themselves, respected and performed their culture as an unbroken chain. The image of "people only listening to Indian music and watching Bollywood films" is far from reality and uncivil. Many of them might be considered "more Desi" than some IBCD (Indian Born Confused Desi) or PBCD who are clueless about their origin and sometimes shy about it. So, first, they are "technically" Desi and, second, they consider themselves Desi (not all, as also among those who recently left the Subcontinent, they are enough of them who don't consider themselves Desi; in foreign land this is a matter of personal choice).

Desiphral 08:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


I think you need to step back and read what you just wrote. There is a distinction because “Indians” in Guyana and Trinidad are 5th generation and a Indian living in Russia that is 2nd or 3rd generation. So would you consider a Mexican who’s ancestors were Indian and the Mexican himself is 1/10 Indian a Desi ?. The reason why the term was developed in the first place was to differentiate between the many nationalities in this world that consider themselves “Indian”. Such as individuals from nations of Trinidad and Guyana. Desi is a cultural classification of people living or descended by a few generations from India and the few countries that surround it. The term was developed by the people and for the people, there should be no reason why a person from Trinidad or Guyana, can go about calling themselves Desi let alone Indian unless they are second generation. There is a large cultural aspect to being Desi, it is more then just having some “Indian” in you.

(Mind my grammar, I just woke up)

Dilkaraja

Dilkaraja, keep in mind there is no original research in Wikipedia. If you can find a source that supports your statements, it should be included (along with what is currently there). Though I would guess it might be difficult to find an accurate etymology of the word Desi.
Nevertheless, if people in Guyana and Trinidad call themselves Desi, that is a matter of fact. Even if it were true that the word Desi was "developed to differentiate between the many nationalities in this world that consider themselves Indian", the meanings of words are not immutable. Superdosh 17:58, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Dilkaraja, see the statistics of demographics for states like Guyana or Trinidad where those with mixed Desi and other ancestry are in the category mixed ancestry. Most of those who consider themselves Desi have only Desi ancestry. Keep in mind that in the Subcontinent proper most of the people have mixed ancestry and a lot of not originally Desi people contributed to the span of contemporary Desi genes. Now it is to be argued what makes someone Desi: the ancestry or the culture? Desiphral 20:45, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rate Desi

On the website Rate Desi, the people who are being rated are of a larger background than just Indian or Pakistani. Many of the women who are being rated as "Desis" are of European[1], Middle Eastern[2][3], East Asian[4], and Sri Lankan[5] ancestry. Should this be added to the article, because it seems that everyone who is being rated on the "Desi hot or not site" have self-identified as Desis.--Dark Tichondrias 02:00, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sri Lankans?

Are the people of the Sri Lankan diaspora also considered Desi?

Of course they are, just google, for example [6] [7] [8] [9], Desiphral-देसीफ्राल talk-फेन मा 15:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Punjabi and Desi

Concept of Desi [10] and the path of development from Punjabi to Desi. Are these words synonyms? What do you think? Desi seems to be International version and Punjabi remains the National version. Punjabi is no longer a regional concept any more. There were times not long ago when by Punjabi, it was meant only villager and illiterate. And Punjabi was not even acceptable in urban Punjab. It is heartening to know that Punjabi has acquired an international fame and pride.

The NRI punjabis take pride in calling themselves as Desi. Even people coming from different backgrounds in India take pride in being Desi. Even now if you call somebody Desi in India it sounds a little bit of derogatory in a sense to that person whereas outside India it is considered to be pride. I may be wrong. What do you say? It appears to me that NRI Punjabis are fonder of Punjabi or Desi. To me Punjabi do not mean only language but a way of life. That is perhaps the difference between Punjabi and Desi. I feel Desi conveys a way of life. It is something more than language, culture, and ….! Desi encompasses anything and everything conceivable relating to or revolving Punjabi. What do you think are the factors of popularity of Punjabi way of life?

To what extent have the following factors contributed? Popularity of Hindi cinema all around the world and abundance of Punjabi dialectical dialogues and songs in Hindi cinema and production of inter-cultural and cross cultural movies like ‘American Desi’ and ‘Bend it like Bekham’. Longings or belongings of NRI’s and their attention, multifarious activities and their exposure to multicultural societies / milieu by way of migration. Belated and most welcome arousal of kinship between India and Pakistan initiated by Atal Bihari Bajpai. Let us see, how does it go with Indian Prime Minister having come from Pakistan Punjab and Pakistani President from India Punjab, a very favorable coincidence and combination.

Sponsorship of Punjabi concerts all across the globe with artists from Punjab sponsored by NRI’s. Prosperity of Punjab in particular and India in general. Availability and portability of Punjabi songs on the Internet with easy search and download and the role of P2P file sharing software like Kaza etc. What do you think of proliferation of Punjabi DJ’s and their effect? Advancement in technology particularly the advent of Internet and evolution and proliferation of e-mail and chat rooms as instant communication media at practically no cost. What do you think the younger generation with convent sort of education chatting in Punjabi chat rooms. They are developing a new Punjabi language, with spoken Punjabi written in sms language in English script.

Recent appointment of Punjabi Prime Ministership of Manmohan Singh, second time after I K Gujral will reinforce this concept. Would like to listen from you. 210.10.174.234

[edit] Weasel Words

The article says "some... consider" and "some argue" in relation to SAARC's impact and Desi means NRI. "some consider" and "some argue" are weasel words There needs to be sources cited with these statements or else it is original research.--Dark Tichondrias 21:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] East Africans?

Are East Africans of Indian heritage (there are many) considered Desi? Does Desi apply to only Hindu Indians, or does it apply to Muslim Indians as well? Is there a distinction between Indian Muslims and Pakistani or Bangladeshi Muslims? What if an Indian family migrated from India to Tanzania and thence to the United States, over a period of a century? Remember Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and is not a place for knowledge that can only be understood in one community; the article must be comprehensible to non-Desi people as well. 216.231.46.147 20:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

They are considered Desi, for example people like Gurinder Chadha, born in Kenya, living in UK. In fact many Desis in UK are from Uganda, expelled in the 70s by Idi Amin. Regarding the other questions, the notion of Desi is somehow still in construction and what some people say it is inclusive other say it is exclusive. There are not yet quality writings available to present the span of opinions, so they are not yet included in the article, as they may be considered original research. Usually, on social web sites Desis are people pertaining to the South Asian culture either living in the Indian Subcontinent or abroad with South Asian ancestry. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल talk-फेन मा 11:04, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drastic cleanup

I was going to revert some linkspam and when I opened up the article to edit it, I discovered that various nogoodniks had edited the article to include links to all sorts of commercial sites, or to promote their band, or their novel, etc. The article was a mess. I pruned it drastically. It very much needs citations for history and for controversy over who is desi. The two citations re the controversy that are there now are extremely minor and should be replaced by some reliable sources. If there are conflicting dictionary definitions, those should be included too.

There MUST be academic works and government reports on desi communities, and they're completely missing. Does anyone here specialize in such things?

I left the list of desi writers, but pruned it of anyone whose name I didn't recognize. Some legit names are missing, like Pankaj Mishra. I'll get back to it later. I read the New York Review of Books, New Yorker, New York Times, Salon, Arts and Letters Daily, 3 Quarks Daily, plus Rediff, Pickled Politics, and Sepia Mutiny -- I think I have some idea of who's hot and who's not.

The other folks listed for fusion culture seemed mainly to be there as self-promotion. We need sections on music, cinema, cookbook authors and celebrity chefs. I'll get to those when I can, unless someone else beats me to it. Zora 05:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Desi as derogatory?

One editor added that desi is a derogatory term. This surprises me, as I've never met any South Asians, online or in person, who objected to the term. However, I reworded to say that some people object to the term desi, and moved the observation to a better place.

What's funny is that a number of the contributors associated with the Sepia Mutiny blog have picked up the slur macaca, as used by former US Senator Allen and are using it as a badge of honor. They're calling each other macacas, wearing macaca T-shirts, etc. Suggests that desi is not completely satisfactory if people are so happy with a new word. Let's see if it lasts. Zora 01:34, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's just this uncertainity of where are the borders of the "Desiness", sometimes combined with the shyness of the ancestors culture as long as there are not yet so many role models that might provide ideas and stimulation for bridging it with the other cultures or the modernity. In some cases, of course, it is not true for everybody. Personally I think it is ok your rewording. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 17:12, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
I wonder why we may not add Desi in my POV is derogatory, and why cant we add it to the Ethnic Slur category? My 2 cents--பராசக்தி 00:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Because I've been hanging with desis online and in real life for years and I have never once heard desi as a slur. FOB can be a slur; ABCD can be a slur; but desi? We were willing to change the article to say that some desis thought it was a slur, since we had evidence of at least one, but that's not enough evidence to add it to the list of ethnic slurs. Do you have any written references, other han your assertion? Zora 01:00, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd rather be called "Brown" that Desi, since the word means nothing to me. "Deshi", on the other hand, could be unobjectionable, but we, Bengalis, use it to mean something somewhat different - refers to people from the same region or city in Bengal. In either case, since I consider it derogatory, guess the editor got away with saying "some consider it derogatory" :). urnonav 06:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I see significant overlap between this article and South Asian American. Both essentially describe the same group of people. The only difference is that the term Desi has been defined in this article. We can add Desi a sub-section to the Identity section in South Asian American, similar to what was done to ABCD. --vi5in[talk] 16:16, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Totally against, just to point out that in UK there are more Desis that in USA, plus the rest of the diaspora. Or see the diversified origins in the list of writers. What is written in the article in appliable for all. I suggest to add a Desi section that would comprise a resumee and a link to the main article. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 17:57, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Understood. At the very least, this article needs to be cleaned up and rewritten. I guess we could add a section to South Asian Americans and then link to this article. --vi5in[talk] 20:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Of course, I agree too, as it is now, the article certainly needs major improvements. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 21:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left here. Ling.Nut 22:55, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Myamnar, Bhutan and Nepal

The only people from these countries who classidy as Desi are those of Indo-Pakistani origin. The term "Desi" has Indian origin.

[edit] An opinion

Those with an Indian-subcontinental ethnic background are considered as "desi". These include: Bangladeshis, Indians, Kashmiris and Pakistanis, and sometimes Sri Lankans, Indo-Fijians, Indo-Trinidadians, Mauritians and the Nepalese. These countries shares a similiar culture predominantly seen and typically referred to as "Indian" culture. Most of these countries were also part of the original pre-Indian 'Mahabharat', or in other words, Ancient India.



[edit] Request for help with editing and Commentary on Cultural Differences

Before I begin with my own opinion, I'm making a quick request: I feel that the ABCD section wasn't quite worded as smoothly or as eloquently as I would have liked to have done. It feels like the document doesn't flow anymore. I'm requesting a little help with improvements and editing. I've presently run out of patience. I want to communicate the information in the present version like it's data, without having the reader be insulted or offended. So someone please make corrections to my additions.

My commentary: I find it interesting how heated people become when discussing the issue of differentiation, and distinguishing between people by location, cultures, values, races, etc. I'm putting aside any morality and emotion around this matter and I'm going to be very matter-of-fact about it.

There are cultural differences between Indians born in India, those who left recently, Indians who left India a long time ago, people who have never lived in India (but are of East Indian descent), people of West Indian descent. Please note that I made a territorial distinction to point out that there is a cultural difference between East and West Indians. Typically West Indians are not referred to as Desi's because... well that's just it... I don't know, and I'm not an authority in the matter. However, it's a common thing that I've observed. Being or not being called desi doesn't and shouldn't make anyone inferior or superior, i.e. it doesn't add rank to people or subtract it from them. If it is used that way, then such use could potentially be called racism (or something to that effect).

Let me give you an example: I am Indian (at least I consider myself one). I was born in India, left for South Africa when I was 8 years old. I became a naturalized South African citizen, then moved to the US, lived there 6 years, then moved to Canada. I speak Marathi (a language typically spoken in the state of Maharashtra, India). My cousin, lived only one year of her life in India. However, because of how her parents have raised her, I could never think of her as anything but an Indian. However, when I compare myself to someone who has been living in India for a majority of their life, I find that there are cultural differences and some differences in values too. I don't consider this right, or wrong, or good or bad. The differences are expected and are natural. In comparison, if you look at a person who is of second or third generation descent (and some good friends of mine who I get along with really well are of 2nd/3rd gen. descent), they don't speak an indian language, and they have little or no connection to east indian culture. They (my friends) look Indian, so you can refer to them as 'Indian' or of indian descent in Canada or US, and you could even call them desi - but it's to be noted that they have less connection than I do to being East Indian. That doesn't change the fact that I both love and respect them. However, they are further than me from being East Indian. If you look at people of Indian descent from locations in the Caribbean regions (incl. Guyana, Haiti, Trinidad, etc) the culture is even more distinct and further from being East Indian. Therefore, the term 'desi' fits most closely with being east indian. It's rare that you'll find someone from India refer to a West Indian as 'desi'.

This is how I've worked it out. Please feel free to comment if you think otherwise.

Regards, Sarang

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarangdutt (talk • contribs) 01:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Punjab factor

As someone mentioned earlier on this page before, the term desi has a Punjabi connection that isn't even mentioned on this page. Desi was popularized by the Punjabi pronunciation of the term; in Punjabi it's des but in Hindi/Urdu/Sanskrit it's desh. The pronunciation desi isn't native to Hindi/Urdu but to Punjabi; the first sentence should make this clear. I'll try to revise this a bit later, but if anyone has comments on this please talk. There probably aren't many sources on this, so in the meantime I'll try to find them. Mar de Sin Speak up! 02:20, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-Desi Usage

Can people of other ethnic backgrounds refer to Indians (and other South Asians) as desis or is it a term that only South Asians can use with each other? --Mongrel (talk) 03:58, 24 April 2008 (UTC)