Talk:Dervla Murphy

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[edit] on her becoming a single mother

[edit] THIS WAS STARTED ON A PERSONAL TALKPAGE AND IS NOW COPIED HERE

Hi, you deleted something I'd recently added to Dervla Murphy. I suppose it is wishful thinking, but surely there has to be some way to acknowledge the unusual personal choice she made, to bear what would have been called a bastard, in that time and place? This reflects on her, her strength of character and iconoclasm. If you know the writing about her better than I do, can you add a comment? ThanksBrainyBabe (talk) 02:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I've read a couple of her books but I'm not familiar with writings about her. I think that the article should only reflect what has already been written about her. I scanned the interviews under the external links, but did not find much connecting her being a single mother and the prevailing attitudes of the time, other than "She raised Rachel alone, a brave choice in 1960s Ireland" (Sunday Business Post) - why it was a brave choice is left unstated. RosinDebow (talk) 05:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I suspect there isn't much writing about her. I think the "brave choice" is clear in the context; thanks for finding it. How about modifying the existing sentence along these lines:
In 1968 she gave birth to her only child, fathered by Irish Times journalist Terence de Vere White, whom she never married. She raised her daughter Rachel alone, "a brave choice in 1960s Ireland" [ref], where the power of the Catholic Church was strong. Murphy spent the next five years working as a book reviewer before returning to travel writing. [1]
What do you think? BrainyBabe (talk) 10:31, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Mentioning the influence of the church still seems like original research to me, even though it may be readily apparent to someone who knows anything about Ireland. However, if you look at this link referenced in the article [1] there is a nice quote from her about her position at the time (about the 9th paragraph down). RosinDebow (talk) 13:48, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Hm. Ok. I want to give context to those readers who may not know. What about:
She raised her daughter Rachel alone, "a brave choice in 1960s Ireland" [ref], but felt herself in a secure position financially and professionally and thus safe from harassment. (She had written unpublishable novels earlier in her life, one of them, presciently, about a mother and her illegitimate child.) [ref]
And then, there is always the curious incident of the dog in the night time. Watson: but the dog didn't bark! Holmes: That is the curious incident. (I paraphrase, but the point is that what e.g. Murphy chose not to write can be more important than what was written. A philosophical point.) BrainyBabe (talk) 14:08, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Your revision sounds much better to me, though "harassment" is stronger than the word "criticism" in the source - I'll leave it up to you if you want to change that or not. Also, the second sentence probably doesn't need the parentheses. As for what she did not write - I agree with your point (and thanks for the curious incident reference), but making the point in Wikipedia, unless supported by a source, would strike me as original research. RosinDebow (talk) 18:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Done. Changed to "criticism" as you suggest. Moved to "personal" section as clearly not travel writing. Much better! And I realise I really should have started this discussion in the article talkpage, not yours, so will copy it there, and you can delete it from your talkpage should you wish. BrainyBabe (talk) 21:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Good addition and nice work :) Fionah (talk) 11:38, 6 April 2008 (UTC)