Talk:Depictions of Muhammad

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Depictions of Muhammad was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: March 25, 2006

Contents


The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 10:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Depiction of Muhammad → Depictions of Muhammad – Much like with Images of Jesus, this article is more about the collective idea of depictions. In addition, "Depiction of Muhammad" sounds very awkward.

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

Remove

  • Remove as nominator. PHussain 07:10, 14 february 2008 (UTC)
  • Support as nominator. joturner 07:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't care as creator. Zora 07:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

The name sounds incredibly awkward. In my opinion, this page should be moved to Depictions of Muhammad or Depicting Muhammad (despite the fact that those names are unconventional). joturner 20:51, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

No strong opinion. "Depiction of Muhammad" sounds more like it is about the topic generally, while "Depictions of Muhammad" sounds more limiting in that it seems to suggest the article is limited to being about specific depictions, but maybe that distinction is just in my head. Esquizombi 07:02, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] NYT article about Wikipedia and Islam

This might be worth including:

--Elonka 00:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I believe you must respect the freedom of others, and the images each one different from the other image is what the prophet, this is a contradiction .. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amryazid (talk • contribs) 19:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Huh? Jmlk17 20:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


I have no idea what that person was talking about???WacoJacko (talk) 06:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
A lot of the objections posted here seems to be predicated on the desperate logic that "if it didn't look like him, it shouldn't be displayed at all." That would seem to imply it would be acceptable if the depiction did look like him, contravening the stated prohibition in some strains of Islam on depicting the Prophet in the first place. Some believe in this taboo; others do not (obviously the Islamic artists who created them did not nor did the authorities and scholars who commissioned or appreciated them). These hit-and-run objections also do not take into account the fact that the images displayed are historical religious art and do not pretend to be an accurate (by modern standards) representation of anyone. They are stylistic and informed by the artistic tastes and schools of thought at the time. I'm sure no one thinks the highly stylized Byzantine representations of religious figures look like any normal human face. Twalls (talk) 16:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unnecessary warnings

Hello people, this is an article entitled "Depictions of Muhammad", why tf is there warnings about removing images here? 83.202.6.91 (talk) 21:09, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

The discussion has taken place on talk:Muhammad. There is no reason the discussion should be replayed here since the same arguments apply. If you want to discuss their removal, I would suggest taking it to that page. // Chris (complaints)•(contribs) 21:55, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Uh, did you even read what I wrote? This is an article about Depictions of Muhammad, the whole "no images" vs. "images" is not even an issue here, ergo no need for a redundant image warning. 83.202.81.189 (talk) 14:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
It is an issue. Check the article edit history, it has been the subject of repeat vandal attacks. --Veritas (talk) 14:51, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Your logic is perfectly false, if Wikipedia based this type of warning on vandalism then every single page of the Encyclopedia would need to have a warning. The image discussion linked on this page isn't even for this article but for Muhammad where there absolutely is an issue (and judging by the talk pages has been for quite some time). Reviewing the talk page archives here there has not been any serious lengthy discussions about not displaying images on an article about images, ridiculous. 83.202.81.189 (talk) 14:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Common sense tells you (or at least should) that it is easier to have these conversations in a central location. That is why the discussions are held in the sub-page of the Muhammad Talk space. --Veritas (talk) 14:59, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Common sense tells us that there's no logic to having a link to a talk page about an issue that does not exist on the original article. No one has seriously considered not having images on and article that is about images... is that not evident? 83.202.81.189 (talk) 15:02, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Since you seem too lazy or too unwilling to look it up yourself. Here are some instances of vandalism regarding images in this article during just the past few days alone. And this isn't even all of it: [1] [2][3][4][5][6]--Veritas (talk) 15:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Are you seriously attempting to argue for a warning based upon vandalism? Of course vandalism is dealt with as it is always dealt with, through "rvv". Vandals don't look to talk pages for warnings not to vandalize.... duh. 83.202.81.189 (talk) 15:07, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Where is this prior discussion for the article Depictions of Muhammad? Where are the talk page archives for this article? 83.202.81.189 (talk) 15:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
This is a sub-article of Muhammad. See the archives of Talk:Muhammad. Hut 8.5 16:33, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but my question was not for the Muhammad article but for the Depictions of Muhammad article and where are these past discussions for the article Depictions of Muhammad? Where are the talk page archives? 83.202.81.189 (talk) 18:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Essentially there have been no discussions on this article's talk page suggesting that the images not be displayed (completely understandable given the nature of the article). Ergo, where's the need for an image warning? 83.202.6.91 (talk) 20:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The discussions at Talk:Muhammad also apply here. People regularly remove the images from the article (five times today so far), so some kind of warning is clearly necessary. Hut 8.5 21:34, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Online petition

The online petition appears to reach our notability threshold, at least for a h4 section under "recent controversies". I've created Online petition to remove Muhammad depictions from Wikipedia as a redirect pointing to that section. News coverage includes Herald Tribune, Fox News and NYT. The petition itself is here, and claims to have collected 300,000 signatures. --dab (𒁳) 12:35, 23 February 2008 (UTC)



[edit] NOTICE

Important notice: Prior discussion has determined that pictures of Muhammad will not be removed from this article, and removal of pictures without discussion at Talk:Muhammad/images will be reverted. If you find these images offensive, it is possible to configure your browser not to display them; for instructions, see the FAQ. Discussion of images should be posted to the subpage Talk:Muhammad/images.