Talk:Demographics of Toronto
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[edit] Growth rate error
There is an error in the growth rate calculation. If Toronto grew by 4% from 1996 to 2001, the annual rate would be 0.8%, not 1.9%.
[edit] Percentage of Jewish People?
Under the table of ethnic comparisons, it says that Jewish people make up 2.5%, but in the Religion section, it says that Jews make up 4.8% of the population. What's the reason for this discrepancy? Which one is correct? Dorykornfeld 01:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Comparison with Miami
I deleted the section about Miami being "mostly hispanic" seeing as how it's diversity index is .6-.77 http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/atlas/censr01-104.pdf Either way, I think citing things like this would be a good idea, so that it doesn't sound as if it was writen by some jingoistic Canadian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.146.32.150 (talk • contribs) .
- My diversity index is bigger than yours...
Isn't Miami "mostly Hispanic" (I think I understand the PDF, but it isn't entirely explanatory) or, more precisely, isn't it more a "bicultural" (Hispanic and non-Hispanic white) than a multicultural city? Certainly, I've read about it as a fairly unique example of a really dramatic demographic flip to a new majority (see, for instance Who are we?—a sort of reactionary example); note in Toronto, by some measures, there is no majority.
I definitely agree though, that there should be no hint of a "better than, worse than" involved. Let the facts speak for themselves. Marskell 22:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
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- According to the cited pdf above, the diversity index is based on "the percentage of times two randomly selected people would differ by race/ethnicity". Therefore, it doesn't dispute the fact in the article that Miami's foreign-born population is mostly hispanic. However, I agree that the fact should be cited before it is reintroduced into the article. Skeezix1000 11:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
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- Instead of citing a statistically irrelevant index like "diversity index", why not look at the stats? Here's the census info for Miami and Miami-Dade County. Let me tabulate the percentages for you:
| Miami | Miami-Dade | Toronto | Toronto CMA | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| White | 66.6 | 76.4 | 54.1 (?) | 62.2 |
| Black or African-American | 22.3 | 20.6 | 8.3 | 6.2 |
| Two or more | 4.7 | 1.1 | 0.8 (?) | 2.1 |
| All others | 6.4 | 1.9 | 32.6 | 29.3 |
| Hispanic/Latino origin | 65.8 | 60.1 | 2.2 | 1.6 |
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- Compare this to Toronto and CMA info at Statscan, which I've also tabulated above (note Toronto city data is somewhat incomplete, since it doesn't actually list "white", only minorities). Note that the US census bureau lists Hispanic/Latino in addition to its other data, whereas Statscan lists it as a separate minority. (When adding the numbers above, for US numbers don't count Hispanic, for Canada numbers do count those numbers to get 100% data.) Also note that the Toronto numbers for two or more look suspiciously wrong; that number is likely to be higher than the CMA number, with a corresponding downward adjustment for "white". Mindmatrix 15:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
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- By the way, I say "diversity index" is statistically irrelevant for the following reason: consider a population distribution of 45% white, 45% black and 10% other. Randomly selecting two people from this population results in 41.5% being of the same race, and 58.5% from two different groups. However, this group does not have high diversity, it is tri-modal. By the way, on page 5 of the document cited by the anon user, Miami-Dade is one of the few areas in the US with a decreasing diversity index. I don't think much of this stat either. Mindmatrix 15:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
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- Good points. Those are helpful comments. I think the issue is whether we can source the claim that Miami's foreign-born population is mostly hispanic, whereas Toronto's is more diverse. The census figures, unless I am missing something, do not get us the whole way there. Perahs if we reword the sentence to read: "Miami ranked first, but its population is approximately two-thirds Hispanic/Latino, whereas Toronto's population is significantly more diverse." The census figures would support that claim. Skeezix1000 15:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
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- Two things
1) You are absolutely right about Miami's immigrant population being mostly Hispanic. I guess I read the sentence wrong originally. Here's two possible cites:
Although an argument can be made that immigration in Toronto is largely Chinese (30%), and is a majority of Asians (well above 80%), t I guess I see a bit more of a problem with grouping distinct groups into "Asian" than into "Hispanic"
2) Diversity index is not "statistically irreverent". This is *the* mathematical definition of diversity. (see wikipedia entry on diversity index). As for someone's example here with 45%/45%/10%: and despite what your institution might tell you, this .58 diversity index is actually a rather diverse index. Just think through all the examples and counterexamples and it will make more sense.
I think quoting foreign born immigration is a rather inferior measure of diversity. First, it only includes immigration (if the entire population is all white and the percentage is low, it doesn't matter what the immigration statistics); second, it's demographic information and not a diversity index. (If 99% are from China and .01% each of 100 countries, this isn't very diverse at all, despite the long list of countries on a census list. Actually this population would have large species richness, but not a high diversity). Regardless, both biologists and US census use diversity index when discussing diversity. And it actually supports the diversity of Toronto over Miami, and makes sense logically whencomparing Miami to a more diverse American city:
| Toronto | Miami | Sacramento | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Chinese | 0.106 | 0.0023 | 0.0477 |
| South Asian | 0.103 | 0.0017 | 0.0121 |
| Black | 0.083 | 0.2231 | 0.1547 |
| Filipino | 0.035 | 0.0011 | 0.0209 |
| Hispanic | 0.022 | 0.64 | 0.42 |
| West Asian | 0.015 | 0 | 0 |
| Southeast Asian | 0.014 | 0.0002 | 0.0152 |
| Korean | 0.012 | 0.0002 | 0.002 |
| Arab | 0.009 | 0 | 0 |
| Japanese | 0.005 | 0.0003 | 0.0163 |
| Other | 0.015 | 0.0542 | 0.1096 |
| White | 0.572 | 0.07 | 0.1957 |
| SUM | 0.991 | 0.9931 | 0.9942 |
| INDEX | 0.641477 | 0.532779 | 0.745998 |
Note that the US Census differentiates between notions of race and ethnicity because Hispanics have mixed with many other races in America. So it is very difficult to determine a pure Hispanic from the stats.
I'm using the stats from the Toronto Demographics page, so these stats are perfect, but for the other two, I err on the side of purity over diversity. This is why I assume no Arabs or West Indians (they were not part of the US census) and this is why the number of whites (which are calculated as pure whites) are so low. But feel free to do your own calculation and change the numbers around, you’ll find the numbers are about the same.
Other sources: http://sacramento.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm
http://sacramento.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto
[edit] French in Toronto
The article contradicted itself. It stated that French was the 2nd most spoken language in Toronto. This is not the case, later in the article it was stated that French is only spoken by 1.4% of the population. This puts it well beneath languages such as Italian and Chinese. I took the liberty to correct the statement seeing as it was based on a reference of languages most used at work. French may well be the 2nd most used language at work, but that is likely because of Canadian government services work which must be conducted bilingually, not because French is widely spoken in Toronto. Basser g 06:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Don't Like This
"The chief ethnicities of the white population of Toronto are 6.5% Canadian (a mixture of English, Scottish, Irish, and French)"
What does this mean? I am not British or French but I am Canadian too. In addition, I thought Native peoples were here first, but even then I am Canadian as well. British or French does not mean Canadian!
Tito A. Martinez —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.95.112.218 (talk) 23:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC).
[edit] Tamils?
I read in other articles that GTA has around 200,000 Tamils mostly of Srilankan origin but the statistics are confusing. What is their actual numbers?
- These stats are only for Toronto (2.5 million people), not for the GTA (5.5 million people). Try searching for the GTA article and one of the links will send you to a Statistics Canada website. Blackjays1 10:06, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ethnic Groups
I'll be adding data on ethnic groups and restructuring the list (in paragraph form) to reflect the ranking by percent of the total composition. Data will be from: http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/highlights/ethnic/pages/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo=CMA&Code=535__&Data=Count&Table=2&StartRec=1&Sort=3&Display=All&CSDFilter=5000 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gkmx (talk • contribs) 17:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC) Actually, I'll do this laterGkmx (talk) 17:08, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
