Talk:Democratic Left (Italy)

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[edit] Party or movement?

It's not a party (at least not yet). There's a wide difference between its structure and Lega Nord's, as Democratic Left never had a single national convention, never ran in an election (and I would't bet it'll do in the next future), and has no local sections. Plus, all national news (and italian Wikipedia) refer to it as "movement" and, last but not least, parliamentary groups does not necessarily need to be parties, such as it happened in the early 2000s with the Canadian Democratic Representative Caucus. --Angelo 01:32, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that if in Italy we distinguish between parties and movements, in Europe there's no such difference, or better what we call "movimento politico" is not what Englishmen call "political movement". "A political party is a political organization that seeks to attain political power within a government, usually by participating in electoral campaigns", while "a political movement is a social movement working in the area of politics". In my opinion SD fits the first category, certainly not the second one. It is important to not confuse Italian categories with English categories. --Checco 07:55, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Well I think exactly the opposite; surely it is not the first, as SD does not have the intention to take part at electoral campaigns by itself, but instead is a group of people with the one goal to "unite the left", whatever it means. Whether its members are currently elected politicians or not, this means nothing. To me it's more like all those Democratic Party Associations founded in all these years or Libertà e Giustizia, and none of all are parties. Then, if you read the political movement article, it goes on by saying:
“ A political movement may be organized around a single issue or set of issues, or around a set of shared concerns of a social group. In contrast with a political party, a political movement is not organized to elect members of the movement to government office; instead, a political movement aims to convince citizens and/or government officers to take action on the issues and concerns which are the focus of the movement. ”
I guess these words fits really great on this case. And I don't even see such a difference between Italian/European and UK/US definition of "movement". --Angelo 13:08, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't agree with you. I can't see what would be the difference between SD and many other Italian parties. A party is a party even if it does not field candidates (as the Radicals have done many times). There are also parties which present their candidates in the lists of other parties. Anyway, there's no doubt that in the future the SD will field candidates for the elections and that they will organize as a party. Also Forza Italia is not structured as, say, the DS, but we consider it a party, even if Berlusconi continues to define it as "movement". Finally I observe that if there will be a joint list of the Left in the future, it will be organized as a federation of PRC, PdCI, SD and so on. Maybe the SD will break in two or three groups, maybe it will go with PRC or with the SDI, but in my opinion it is exactly what we consider a party. I find hard to see what is the point...
At the beginning many parties start their activity with many aims (and this is the case of SD), but then they start worring about electing people. This is exactly what SD will do, within or out a bigger federation of parties. --Checco 14:31, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The Radicals have always done it, maybe they weren't called Radicals but "Lista Bonino", "Lista Pannella" or whatever, but they always did. And then, it's you who are so sure SD will run for elections; I am not. All your claims sound like crystal ball to me. --Angelo 14:54, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Checco. Currently, it's a newly founded party. —Nightstallion (?) 15:01, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Even if I would reveal you all major Italian newscasters define it as "movement"? Here are some news articles, all in Italy unfortunately: [1] [2] [3] [4]. By the way all former DS members cannot legally join another party, as they are still part of the DS and always stated they would not leave the party, but join another one once it would disappear (next October, maybe). --Angelo 15:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
We can agree on the fact that SD was founded as an association, but it is and will be a party. Definitely. --Checco 16:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Aye, indeed. —Nightstallion (?) 17:54, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
"Sarà un movimento ma non un partito, perché non abbiamo intenzione di correre da soli alle elezioni" (It will be a movement but not a party, because we have no intention to run alone to the elections). This is Fabio Mussi of the Democratic Left. L'Unità, May 5 2007 [5]. To me it's well enough, I even have a copy of the newspaper if you don't believe me. --Angelo 18:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that interview, but even if SD won't partecipate to elections alone I would continue to consider it a party, exactly as there are many parties in Italy which didn't partecipate to any election. --Checco 18:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Which ones? Tell me a single Italian party currently active that has never taken part to any election... That's a challenge. --Angelo 18:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I can list you many: Reformist Socialists, Christian Democracy (Italy, current) (at least not with its simbol), Christian Democratic Refoundation, United Consumers, Middle-of-the-Road Italy, Federation of Italian Liberals, New Action Party, Radicals of the Left, United Democratic Christians, Social Action (never alone and with its simbol), Italian Marxist-Leninist Party, it:Lotta Comunista (which doesn't recognize the democraticness of Italian elections), I Veneti (who doesn't recognize the Italian State), ... Do I need to go on? Also the Italian Radicals never presented themselves as such. Many parties don't field candidates on a national level, but only locally, while the Italian Radicals don't take part to local elections. More... parties can be also only parliamentary, such as the Tories and the Whigs at the beginning, Giolitti's Liberals and many others. --Checco 18:44, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Middle-of-the-Road Italy has its own mayoral candidate who is campaigning right now in Palermo. Lotta Comunista to me is everything but a party (they're always placed in front of my house involved to let know their "platform"), Marxist-Leninist Party ran in Campania a very few years ago (I can remind of it). Most of the other parties joined forces hoping to obtain more votes, and actually all of the parties you mentioned are absolutely negligible; a very few people ever heard of them, I might even discuss their notability to have their own article on Wikipedia for most of them by the way. --Angelo 19:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
The Marxist-Leninist Party is different from the Italian Marxist-Leninist Party, anyway. Lotta Comunista define itself a party. Many parties, anyway, starts describing themeselves "movements", but then we have no doubts in considering them as parties... "Most of the other parties joined forces hoping to obtain more votes", indeed that's what SD il likely to do, but this doesn't make it something different from a party. --Checco 06:39, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot 06:30, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] European affiliation?

Can we verify whether or not SD is affiliated with the Party of European Socialists? --Free Socialist 23:49, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Not yet. And I wouldn't bet on it, as they are currently flirting with a possible European Left option (they're in fact discussing a merger/confederation with the Party of Italian Communists and the Communist Refoundation Party). --Angelo 01:20, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I see - so presumably SD will try and link to the European Left group, whilst the Socialist Constituent Assembly are going for a PES affiliation option? Interesting... Free Socialist 11:35, 8 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Free Socialist (talk • contribs)

Oh, really? They might merge to form a new, united Communist Party? —Nightstallion 18:35, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

More realistically, just a confederation of left-wing parties (The Red Thing, as named by Italian journalists) with the inclusion of the Green Party (which is clearly a left-leaning party in Italy). --Angelo 18:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I want to make clear that, despite flirting with the United Left idea, SD leaders want to apply for PES memberships. They repeat this almost every day. And, remember, that SD has currently 5 MEPs in the PES group in the Europarl. --Checco 02:42, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merging with other parties, or forming an association?

It seems that SD are working with PRC, PdCI and Vedi - http://www.unitiasinistra.it/ - and http://www.lassemblea.org/ - anyone know if the aim is to begin converging as a single party, or is it a federation of autonomous parties? --Free Socialist 17:25, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

A federation is likely but nothing is sure. Uniti a sinistra is the name of a faction within PRC, while La Assemblea will be a convention in which these parties will discuss about a possible federation. --Checco (talk) 17:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)