Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 April 9

NASIOC (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

notablilty has been proven and this discussion is still open. It has passed the 5days and it seems as if there is a personal vendetta by the person who recommended the AFD. Rcrookes (talk) 18:06, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• Speedy close - The AfD is still open; there is no deletion (or other type of closure) to review. There is currently a backlog at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, which is why the discussion has been open for more than 5 days. Black Falcon ^(Talk) 18:27, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
• Speedy close - This is not the forum, as pointed out above, the AfD is still open. --Smashville^BONK! 18:37, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
• Comment: the AfD is now closed with a outcome of "delete". Pegasus «C¦T» 22:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Allison Sudradjat (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

• Article on an AusAIDs Minister Counsellor in Indonesia was originally created by Jack Merridew/Davenbelle in May 2007, and nommed for deletion with a delete result. In March 2008 (9 months later), I was asked by the article creator to fetch the original article and place in his userspace as he added some sources so it would qualify for notability. I felt it did now qualify and place in Mainspace but was deleted by Pegasus under CSD G5. However, as far as I can tell, Davenbelle and socks are all indef blocked not banned as such. According to this Arbcom decision, he is blocked not banned (?) and I felt the article should be judged on its own merits and so am placing it here for the community to decide whether to relist at AfD, or endorse deletion. Unfortunately only admins will be able to see and judge deleted material. PS: I apologise for placing it in userspace the first time as I realise I should have come here first given the situation}} Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC) -->
• comment as original closing admin at the time of the Afd May 2007 I said there may be cause to recreate this article if more WP:BIO information becomes available. I see nothing of issue with Cas's restoration in March 08 he acted in good faith to a user request, the deletion of the martial under csd#g5 in was also reasonable after the user was identified as being indef block due to Arbcom sanctions. From the talk page of the arbcom case I've made the most recent block indefinite. Moby Dick really has no useful contributions outside of an impressive amount of stalking, and there is no reason not to consider him banned. Dmcdevit·t 03:20, 3 May 2007 (UTC)source, IMHO the article should be recreated from fresh rather than restoration. Gnangarra 14:40, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
• As I see it, Moby Dick is subject to a de jure partial ban imposed by the ArbCom case that applies only to "articles which concern Turkey or Kurdish issues" and a de facto full ban caused by the fact that he is indef-blocked and no one is willing to (or ought to, I suppose) unblock the account. In the end, it seems to me that the validity of the speedy deletion hinges on whether a de facto ban is enough to activate CSD G5 in the absence of a more formal ban (Moby Dick does not seem to be on the list of banned users). I suppose WP:IAR could also be invoked... Since I don't precisely know why the creator was sanctioned by ArbCom and indef-blocked, I'll refrain (for now) from endorsing the deletion or supporting undeletion. Black Falcon ^(Talk) 16:53, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
• The history of this blocked/banned user is complicated, but the reasons for the blocks/bans, which are many, do not include anything to do with Indonesian-related topics. I suggest that the article be evaluated for notability based on its inherent merits, without prejudice to any other situations involving the user in question that might arise. Newyorkbrad (talk) 20:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
• I would support restore per Newyorkbrad; she is notable because of the multiple non-trivial independent write-ups referenced. Pegasus «C¦T» 23:06, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
• Support restore - with Moby's contributions as Jack Merridew being mostly in good-faith (Merridew was far less-stalky than previous sockpuppets), I'd put Moby on the cusp of banned users now (whereas pre-Jack I'd say firmly "banned"). Sceptre ^(talk) 01:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
• Allow recreation of an appropriately-sourced article. Stifle (talk) 11:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
• Allow recreation of an appropriately-sourced article if someone can do it. Hobit (talk) 20:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
• Allow recreation of an appropriately-sourced article. Jerry talk ¤ count/logs 01:59, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

George Navarini (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|)

Sir,

Please note that Lt Col Navarini is the first member of CAP to be awarded both the Order of the Star of the Ethiopean Empire and the Order of Intare of Rwanda. You can confirm this by checking out the Wikipedia article on "Order of the Intare". I was there when he was presented these awards on 3 March 2007, as was King Kigali V, and others.

You can check the Florida Wing website www.flwg.us, or contact National Headquarters, Civil Air Patrol at [removed contact information for privacy, available in history].

He is also listed on LinkedIn, and you can of course Google his name, although I understand this is not a good primary course.

I noticed that you have an issue regarding "noteriety", and that sir, is rather subjective. Does a mass murderer (who has loads of noterity) command space of Wikipedia, while a hard-working piller of the community who has been in service to his community, state and nation across three decades, and is one of the most well-known members of Florida Wing, Civil Air Patrol is concidered "too small"

A fine example sir, regarding the small fact that you may have been helped by Colonel Navarini, as the colonel was part of CAP's Katrina deployment, as well as well over ten other hurricane and tropical storm deployments in the past decade. These are not listed as many of our active members have done the same and as such, this bring little "noteriety" in CAP and emergency services circles.

If being on television counts, the colonel has been on TV and radio countless times, as the Wing (state-level) director of Public Affairs. He has been the voice of Florida Wing many times, both during and after hurricanes and during Air Search and Rescue Missions across Florida. You can verify this by contacting Lt Col Valerie Brown, Wing Chief of Staff at [removed contact information for privacy, available in history] or Lt Col Art Giles, Florida Wing Vice Commander (currently in Washington DC for FEMA training) at ArtGiles@Bellsouth.net.

Finally, Colonel Navarini was the first member of CAP to attend FEMA's Emergency Management Institute last July, as a CAP officer. He attended the Advanced Public Information Course. You can confirm this by contact EMI directly at: [removed contact information for privacy, available in history], or calling [removed contact information for privacy, available in history].

With all this information now in your hands, I sincerely hope you will reconcider your earlier decision and restore Colonel Navarini'd article.

Respectfully Submitted,

AMANDA J. LENARDSON, C/Capt, CAP Cadet Recruit Training Officer, Past Cadet Commander 286th CAP Composite Squadron, Florida Wing FLWG-CAP (talk) 23:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• Comment Can an admin give logs so the rest of us can figure out what's going on here? Was this speedied? Why? It's kind of useful to have this information.... Celarnor ^{Talk to me} 00:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow, I fail. I was looking at the page with all caps; I figured it had been scrubbed. Celarnor ^{Talk to me} 00:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

• Restore and list at AfD. Subject was killed in action (See FLORIDA WING MOURNS FALLEN HERO. US Fed News Service, Including US State News. Washington, D.C.: Jan 30, 2006.') in Iraq and seems to have been involved in the production of a squadron-produced monthly television show, as well as appearing on TV as a spokesperson a few times. Subject is also the recipient of the Royal Order of the Intare. Individually, I don't think any one of these makes him worthy of an article. However, as a recipient of a notable award, per WP:BIO, I think his notability is debatable enough to be put to AfD. Will it succeed? Probably not. Should it be given the chance? Yes. Celarnor ^{Talk to me} 00:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

• Restore and list at AFD. Knowing he has received these awards does suggest potential notability. The wonderful things he has done and the wonderful feelings people have about him do not factor into this. It is possible to be accomplished without satisfying notability. To Capt. Lenardson, though, notability is not subjective. It is based on either inherent factors (such as being elected to certain offices) or derived from reliable sources making note of the individual. We are aware there are other articles on Wikipedia which may not seem as notable. --Dhartung | Talk 06:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
• I've changed the heading to the proper title of the deleted page. With that in mind, overturn, undelete the oldest version (only; the intermediate versions are all a protest at the deletion) and list at AFD bearing in mind the claim of notability. Stifle (talk) 10:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
• overturn, undelete the oldest version only, and immediately list at AFD. To the requester, every soldier and sailor who has ever died in battle is regarded highly, but not necessarily the kind of subject that encyclopedia articles are written about. Wikipedia is not a memorial nor is it the army archives. But this article does warrant further scrutiny at AFD, based on the media exposure and award(s), as Celarnor mentioned. Jerry talk ¤ count/logs 01:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

*Comment - I understand the subject is alive. His current assignment is as Director, Marketing and Public Affairs and a such he will issue notes as the one mentioned above, which is about the death of Dennis J. Flanagan [1].--Tikiwont (talk) 09:56, 15 April 2008 (UTC)