Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 November 27

Yankee go home (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

As frustrated as I am about a page I created being deleted without anyone popping a note on my talk page, and at that after someone had removed the prod for it, and with very little discussion, I decided I could take it. Except that page, being transwikied, will almost certainly not appear in its current form on wiktionary: see wikt:Wiktionary:Entry layout explained. Not only that, but the text itself will never actually be placed on the page to which it has been redirected, as the deletion discussion was saying it should. The phrase is one of the most notable ones of the 20th century (as can be seen from the sources given at wikt:Transwiki:Yankee go home, which were just a few among thousands that I found, and in that fact that someone else created a page on the English term in the Turkish language: tr:Yankee go home). If Wikipedia has decided that some terms are worth their own articles (e.g., truthiness, which isn't half as notable in that it's only a fad for the past couple years), then the standard should be applied across the board and equally. As such, this discussion did not have enough participation (only 3 participants, not including nominator, 2 of whom fell under WP:JUSTAVOTE), especially given that a prod was removed, and the deletion proposer didn't even notify me, the creator. As such, we should overturn the redirect. User:Part Deux (on extended Wikibreak) 21:34, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse closure (keep as redirect, though I do not have a firm opinion on which target is better). I see no process problems with the discussion. Deletion discussions do not have a quorum requirement and it is explicitly not a requirement to notify the page's creator. (In a wiki, you can't really say who the creator is anyway.) The AFD tag was on the page for the required 5 days. There was ample time for anyone watchlisting the page to see the tag and comment.
  As to the content of the page, it was a mere dictionary definition - meaning and usage of a word or phrase. It had 7 months to be expanded and could not. Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. The deletion discussion got this right. The nominator is correct that the layout of the definition will probably be changed when it is moved to Wiktionary. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. The nominator also notes that we have articles on other terms. The solution is to move them to Wiktionary as well, not to propagate the problem here. I see no grounds to reverse the AFD decision. Rossami (talk) 07:24, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse redirect close - There was no other way to interpret that AfD. AfD does not require notification to validate the process. Removal of the prod without improvement of the article is a reason to delete the article, not to void the AfD discussion. Also, one AfD participant is enough if the AfD is listed for five days. The text itself was unsourced so it wouldn't improve Wikipedia by placing that unsourced text on the page to which it had been redirected. -- Jreferee t/c 08:41, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• Overturn & relist failure to notify is already considered impoliteness by the policy, and its unfairness here with the editor on a wikibreak is clear. Unfair AfDs should be sent back and redone. Removal of the prod, with or without improvement is not a reason for deletion until brought to AfD and consensus obtained. It is not assumed the original prod was correct. It would be appropriate to hold a fuller debate--the inadequate discussion should have been continued, not closed. DGG (talk) 17:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: Failure to notify is not, and has never been, a requirement, and to suggest that a unanimous AfD be overturned because the originator of the article was not notified is absurd. And then on top of it, the person who wants to be nominated was on wikibreak? So some crappy article (and I'm not saying this article was crappy) has to stick around forever just because the original editor is on wikibreak? That's not policy and hopefully will never be policy. Corvus cornix_talk 18:00, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse closure - Article looked alright, didn't really qualify for deletion in my book, and didn't see any process problems the closure. I even remember editing this page when it was created, thought it was in August though, not April! — Rudget _{contributions} 20:00, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse keep and redirect closure Since the edit history was kept the redirect consensus only holds for the article as it stood during the AfD. Anyone can access the edit history and use it to replace the redirect with an improved article. Looking at the dicdef that was there I agree that the redirect was better, but that doesn't mean it's impossibe to write a viable article on the term. And nothing in the closure prevents that. ~ trialsanderrors (talk) 00:06, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse closure seems appropriate and within admin discretion surely. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 07:03, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
• Relist. No arguments based on policy or guidelines were provided for keeping or deletion, so there was no basis on which this could be closed either way. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:27, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
• Comment - I realize a lot of people are currently commenting on the fact that the review was done according to process. But what about the fact that this appears to be an extremely notable saying? As said above, this statement is known worldwide, and goes way beyond other Wikipedia favorites such as truthiness. I would be glad to create a true article, not just a dictionary definition of it, given the chance. A lot really could be said about this notable subject. It will be a real shame if the administrator simply closes this debate based on a head-count without allowing recreation of a very notable subject. 128.118.226.88 09:11, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Berry Chill (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

Please undelete the Berry Chill page. It is extremely significant to one of the hottest food crazes to hit the US -- froyo. What began with Pinkberry, ended with an investigation of the products real yogurt status. It was, in fact, NOT real yogurt. While the yogurt wars wage on in the US's East and West coasts, the fad has yet to hit the windy city (Chicago). Berry Chill will be the city's first yogurt restaurant, and one of the category's first to receive the National Yogurt Association seal, which proves that the product contains enough live and active cultures to be called real yogurt.It belongs on Wikipedia, along with its competitors that will surely find their way to Chicago soon. Berrychill 21:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

It has great significance Berrychill (talk) 21:34, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• Please read our guidelines on handling a conflict of interest. The usual problems applied to this article: it wasn't written from independent and reliable sources; it didn't assert notability; too much of the content looked like advertising copy; and it smelled like a copyright violation (of advertising copy). Endorse deletion. Don't recreate unless there is independent coverage published in reliable sources. GRBerry 21:38, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Heck...too much of the DRV request looks like advertising copy... --Smashville^BONK! 21:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

ATTENTION! If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on a forum, please note that this is not a majority vote, but rather a discussion to establish a consensus among Wikipedia editors on whether a page is suitable for this encyclopedia. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines to help us decide this, and deletion decisions are made on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes. Nonetheless, you are welcome to participate and express your opinions. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments by suspected single-purpose accounts can be tagged using {{subst:spa|username}}

Lizz Robbins (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

I'm voting to overturn the deletion of the page, there was no justification why this page was deleted. It is agreed that the page could use reformatting due to the fact that the author was new to wikipedia. I would like the opportunity to re-do this page in the correct format. The person is notable because of relation to a National distributed product as well as a cult following per the notabililty (bio-persons) page of Wikipedia. It contained enough importance and even a little more compared to the other models in the same catergory "Hip Hop Models".Knicksfan4ever (talk) 20:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• The AfD debate was small but correct, and correctly closed. This article barely rose above the level for a speedy-deletion per WP:CSD#A7, but is not on an encyclopedic topic. She's not professional in the area, and it's not even her day job to appear in such things, and there is no evidence that any of those routine activities have earned her particular third-party note. The Washington Post 'article' was just a mention that a local girl might win a competition and the only possible route to notability - the Maxim competition she failed to win. Endorse deletion. Splash - tk 20:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse closure (keep deleted). I find no process problems in the AFD discussion. The original contribution was pretty clearly autobiographical (with all the normal problems that entails). Subsequent edits still failed to demonstrate that this person meets Wikipedia's generally accepted criteria for inclusion. No new evidence was presented during the deletion discussion to rebut that point, nor has any new evidence been presented here. If there are other models with articles with equally low notability, the right answer is to nominate those for deletion, not to propagate the problem. Rossami (talk) 20:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
  • The contribution has been adjusted Knicksfan4ever (talk) 21:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep deleted per my reasoning on the AFD. Per this dif, the user who nominated this page for deletion review is Liz Robbins. Miranda 23:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• Overturn and keep [1] You suggested someone having longterm, Lizz has been in the industry for over 12 years. Longer than quite a few people listed on Wikipedia. What evidence do you have that the deletion review is Lizz Robbins? (2 z's). It seems that hip hop models are being singled out on wikipedia, when you have other models with less significance. Knicksfan4ever (talk) 20:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
  • See the above dif. Miranda 00:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• I've been invited along as the deleting admin, but I deleted the recreated page (East718 closed the AfD as "delete"). A substantial similar article was then created, after this deletion review had been opened; it was tagged for speedy deletion as a recreation, and (after checking it was, and seeing there was a DRV open anyway) I deleted it as such. Endorse my deletion of the recreation, which (it seems to me) does not address the points of the original deletion; endorse the original deletion by East718 as an insufficiently notable biographical article. Bencherlite^Talk 00:39, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Still learning, I'm fairly new to this. Did you have the chance to review the updated page compared to the initial deleted page? How do you get invited as a deleting admin?Knicksfan4ever (talk) 00:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Yes, admins can see deleted pages and I have compared the two. I was notified of this discussion by you in this edit - that's what I meant by "invited along" i.e. "notified of this discussion". Bencherlite^Talk 00:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• I endorseOverturn and Keep User above has a very good point. Certain topics like hip-hop models and porn stars are being targeted by a certain group of wikipedians for deletion. The reasons given are usually notability when actually its the wikipedians proposing the deletion who are just not familiar with the particular genre or sub culture. Let's look at the facts Lizz Robbins was featured in a full spread in King Magazine one of the most popular black mens magazines in the US because she won their national contest. Lizz Robbins has twice been in Jet Magazine one of the most popular and most historic black magazines in the US. Lizz Robbins was in Maxim Magazine one of the most popular mainstream mens magazines in the US. Lizz Robbins was mentioned in the Washington Post one of the most important newspapers in the world. Lizz Robbins was a national spokesmodel for Remy Martin one of the largest and most prestigious liquor brands in the liquor industry. In fact there are lifesize cardboard cut outs of Lizz Robbins in liquor stores from coast to coast. Article needs cleanup to meet Wiki standards but the subject matter meets basic notability standardsTroyStewart (talk) 01:18, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse deletions after comparing both deleted versions, no difference = valid CSD G4, valid AfD deletion. Pegasus «C¦T» 01:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• Overturn and keep still no justification of reason for it to be deleted or if it's not meeting the "wiki" standards, give the author a chance to make adjustments. There are so many other pages maybe should not be on here, but this page has a strong caseKnicksfan4ever (talk) 02:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
  • By listing the page here your opinion is implicitly understood to be "overturn". (If you wish otherwise you can say so now and we can close this review and get on with our lives, which I have no objections to.) There is no need to repeat "overturn and keep" multiple times and a lot of people see it as plain rude. Thanks. Pegasus «C¦T» 03:31, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Still learning the rules, I saw that it was crossed out which I see as plain rude so that's why I repeated it, I wasn't trying to be rude, just re-stating what I saw was crossed out. Don't meant to take time out of anyone's life, it's the internet, just debating something I feel strongly about. Thank you for the clear explaination. Knicksfan4ever (talk) 03:55, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• Keep deleted nothing procedurally wrong with the deletion. No reason to undelete has been given. ~Sasha Callahan _(Talk) 04:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
  • It was removed without discussion and when I noticed it, I added it to the discussion. At the time only 1 person had an opinion about it which I clearly felt like it wasn't justifiable and after adherring to the policies and rewriting the page it was still deleted. I'm still trying to learn what can be included in wikipedia, however, I feel the initiator stumpled across the page while on another page and felt the need to remove it because they felt it wasn't relevant to the page it was included on which was a sorority page. This page was not given a chance to be edited see TroystewKnicksfan4ever (talk) 04:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• Side note: Can someone please STOP this? I am really tired of this user stalking my edits and speculating. I don't want to pass it to ANI, but enough is enough. Miranda 04:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Not stalking, just discussing and making a case about why you nominated a page for deletion [2][3]Knicksfan4ever (talk) 04:41, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    • But at a talk page of a user not involved at all with this issue? Let alone, that edit does not bring up the deletion case, but about another issue entirely. I suggest to not make edits like what Miranda pointed out again. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 05:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse deletion, AfD was not broadly commented on but there was a unanimous opinion of all but the article's subject/creator that notability was not sufficient. If TroyStewart thinks notability can be established, it would probably be best done in userspace and brought for consideration. --Stormie (talk) 05:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes please note that it was not unanimous I objected to the deletion. I think this is the inherent problem with Wikipedia that users who are not experts in a certain feild can exert undo influence like they are experts. I am an entertainment professional so I don't profess to know all the current chemistry scholars so I would not edit those pages and the same goes for people who are not in entertainment specifically urban entertainment. An example is Lacey DuValle a porn star who has been a top actresses for over 10 years, has done well over 300 movies, is considered the top black actress in the field and will soon be voted into the AVN Hall of Fame. Her entry was recently deleted for notability!!!! Yet as I look at the actresses still on Wikipedia there are about 75 much lesser known and new actresses who have pages. This was clearly the work of a rival actress or a vendetta against her somehow but it went under the radar. So on this subject that Wikipedia has a project ongoing by the way, the Wikipedia information is compromised and incomplete. This kind of thing is common on Wikipedia and needs to be cleaned up somehow. I just feel very uneasy with the ease that pages are dismissed and deleted no matter what the facts are. King, Jet, Maxim, Washington Post how can there be a question of notability?TroyStewart (talk) 19:21, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Note: This comment was originally made by anon user:63.148.4.2 and subsequently signed by user:Troystew
    • Can you point to the article you're talking about? There doesn't appear to have ever been an article at Lacey DuValle. Corvus cornix_talk 19:25, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
      • Okay, it was at Lacey Duvalle. Did the article explain her notability? Corvus cornix_talk 19:28, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Sorry Troy I don't see any dispute from you at the AfD discussion, and that's what I was referring to when I said "unanimous". Again, the delete opinion was on the grounds of notability, if you feel that it was incorrectly judged, and that you can create an article on Lizz Robbins which establishes notability by citing significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject, please do so! Ditto for Lacey Duvalle - you have made more assertion of notability in one post here than the entire article on her did in two and a half years of editing. Again, if you can create an article on her which establishes notability I'm sure it will be looked on favourably. --Stormie (talk) 22:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
• Note: Non-admins can see the dif here. The article can be notable if re-written in a certain manner for inclusion and sources added, but barely IMHO. Miranda 07:29, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
  • The article Lizz Robbins that was highlighted above was not the edited version, the edited version was not given a chance before being deleted. I am not the originator of the article, but I was alerted when it was up for deletion so I came on here trying to receive some help, which I did not. Fellow Wikipedians, this is not a personal issue for me. Just trying to receive some help on how to get it corrected so the authors work was not done in vain. Thank you to those who have offered their assistance. I do plan to contribute to Wikipedia, especially on subjects like Alpha Kappa Alpha that I am a member of to ensure that is correct. Not trying to stalk or badger anyone, in a sense I am feeling that wayKnicksfan4ever (talk) 14:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    • You didn't have to inquire about people editing certain articles, and diminishing their credibility about reading certain resources. That's stalking, which could have had you blocked from editing. I as well as others have been repeatedly trying to tell you that you are not notable for the encyclopedia, but you keep on repeating...the same point and beating the same dead horse, which is wasting my and others time. And, after we keep trying to tell you that you are not notable, you stalk me and personally attack me about my edits to sorority and fraternity related articles after I had hinted and told you to stop doing so, and didn't apologize for your actions. So, I and others highly suggest to you to NOT WRITE AN ARTICLE ABOUT YOURSELF, because that is a conflict of interest, fails notability and fails neutral point of view. I change my position. This article needs to be kept deleted and salted from re-creation. Miranda 03:16, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse deletion which was proper. As for salting, I'm ambivalent, but given the COI which Miranda points out, I'm leaning toward that as well. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 07:01, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
• Miranda is turning it into a personal war. Stalking? Are you kidding me? Isn't there a such think on here as BITING THE NEWBIE, which you are clearly doing and have cleary done to make your point. You are using the fact that you have been on here longer. If you read your talk pageI CLEARLY ASKED FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE. If you check the record I DID NOT create the article, the person who did obviously wasn't aware of the Wiki rules. Which is why I joined to help, which I did plan to edit. If you look at the other articles on Hip Hop Model, they were written the same way. Being including on that article justifies notability as well as other points that were made by User:Troystew. As far as editing the sorority pages, yes, I myself or anyone else can edit those pages for clarity and history, I am a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha, so if I want to edit that page as well as any other related pages I can. You are not the expert just because you read the history book, for anyone that is a part of a sorority or fraternity, knows it's more than that. You are clearly someone who obviously has interest in the sorority and I wish you luck with that. Someone else is going to correct and format Lizz Robbins, I didn't know that I couldn't edit, but when I tried it got deleted, but now that I'm aware someone else can handle it ANY VOLUNTEERS OUT THERE???. I also want to thank User:kww for all of his assistance in helping me out. I have not insulted or badgered you, you personal attacked me and it's human nature to react, so I think I as the newbie deserve the apology. Users like you will drive people away. Unlike Alpha Kappa Alpha or any other society, you don't have to go through any type of process or ritual to join. This is an informational website.Knicksfan4ever (talk) 14:03, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Please read WP:CIVIL. Keep your comments civil, discuss the situation and not the people involved. Corvus cornix_talk 18:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
    • I have been civil and have discussed the situation, if you read back you will notice that I was called out initially by the another User. Again I think it's personal or something against models in the hip hop worldKnicksfan4ever (talk) 18:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
• this whole thing is really disturbing. why delete it? apparently lizz has an audience that interested in reading information about her. i think he body of work speaks for itself. if there is info that needs to be updated/revised, that's one thing, but to summarily delete the page and not consider her worthy to referenced as a 'hip hop model' is utterly ridiculous! Thapossibilities (talk) 19:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
  • — Thapossibilities (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. . Bencherlite^Talk 20:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
• I read the comments about why Lizz Robbins should or should not be allowed to be in Wikipedia as well as searched for “hip hop model” and scrolled down to successful Hip Hop Models. What I can't understand is why someone mentioned that Lizz lacks notability when she is listed as one of the “Successful Hip Hop Models”. On top of that, Lizz is one of the few women who have their accomplishment next to their names in that section. However, Lizz is the only one under the “Successful Hip Hop Models” section who doesn't have a link to their own Wikipedia page. I read the discussions and I felt that Lizz communicated in a pleasant matter in order to absorb what the person was complaining about and ask for suggestions on how one should create her page so that it fits Wikipedia guidelines. There's no doubt to me that Lizz deserve her own Wikipedia page given her accomplishments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.26.106.9 (talk) 22:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
• I have to concur with recent posts about Lizz Robbins. While I too am a newbie to Wikipedia, I have followed my soror's professional career and I feel as if she is being slighted and she should have her information posted on Wikipedia as she is a professional model/actress and a notable member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Incorporated.LaJuan LoveLaJuan Love 18:04, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
• — LaJuan Love (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Bencherlite^Talk 18:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Thanks to those of you who can see what this is really about, I do appreciate it. I also appreciate determination and a fair debate amongst non-biased adultsKnicksfan4ever 01:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse deletion - no procedural issues with the AfD. Eventually, someone will create an article on her written in a neutral and verifiable manner. In the meantime, I suggest those with a conflict of interest avoid the subject for now. -- Kesh 23:11, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Music City Legend Drum and Bugle Corps (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

Page is an ongoing project by WP:WDC and would like a chance to rehabilitate page to meet standards Werecowmoo (talk) 17:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• Overturn and list - The article contained enough importance/significance to overcome WP:CSD#A7. -- Jreferee t/c 18:54, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• Overturn Deleted as A7 although there were clearly presented assertions of importance. -- DGG 18:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• Nope. Copyright violation of what appears to be their MySpace page. However, I would note that the deletion entry log was rather inaccurate - it omitted to mention that it had also been tagged as a PROD. Nevertheless, this cannot be restored. Splash - tk 20:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Skyliners Drum and Bugle Corps (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

Page is an ongoing project by WP:WDC and would like a chance to rehabilitate page to meet standards Werecowmoo (talk) 17:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse speedy deletion; early DRV close - CSD G12 Blatant copyright infringement of nyskyliners.org. -- Jreferee t/c 18:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• Comment Is there any non copyvio content? There might be enough noncopyvio to stubbify DGG (talk) 19:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

  Reply to Comment - I believe this can be easily rewritten to be factual without being a copy/paste of their history page. Just requires a little bit of time and effort.Werecowmoo (talk) 19:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

  There is copyvio content in every revision. In even the first revision, every paragraph contains copyvio material. None of them can be restored. Splash - tk 20:29, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• Copyvio is clearly present from this specific page in the earliest revision and all later, and also likely from their 60th anniversary yearbook advertised thereon. GRBerry 20:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Grenadiers Drum and Bugle Corps (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

Page is an ongoing project by WP:WDC and would like a chance to rehabilitate page to meet standards Werecowmoo (talk) 17:54, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse speedy deletion; early DRV close - CSD G12 Blatant copyright infringement of corpsreps.com. -- Jreferee t/c 19:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, at this point, all that is there is a short copyvio description. DGG (talk) 19:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Crusaders Drum and Bugle Corps (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

Page is an ongoing project by WP:WDC and would like a chance to rehabilitate page to meet standards Werecowmoo (talk) 17:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse speedy deletion; early DRV close - CSD G12 Blatant copyright infringement of rochestercrusaders.org. -- Jreferee t/c 19:03, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Slightly longer this time, but still copyvio.This is not the way to develop articles for a project. DGG (talk) 19:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Reply - I believe this can be easily rewritten to be factual without being a copy/paste of their history page. Just requires a little bit of time and effort.Werecowmoo (talk) 19:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

You can recreate the article at any time... the deletions were only of the copyright violations, it wasn't a permanent denial of an aritlce on this topic. --W.marsh 19:35, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Atlanta CorpsVets (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

Page is an ongoing project by WP:WDC and would like a chance to rehabilitate page to meet standards Werecowmoo (talk) 17:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• Overturn and list - The spamy article was not so blatant of an advertisement to be considered a CSD G11 advertisement masquerading as an article. Also, the article contained enough importance/significance to overcome WP:CSD#A7. WP:SPEEDY doesn't apply, but deletion per AfD seems likely. -- Jreferee t/c 19:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• A very poor article, likely to be deleted by AfD. It does not meet the requirements for blatant advertising, since it requires nothing fundamental to remove it's over-enthusiastic tone and, quoting, "Note that simply having a company or product as its subject does not qualify an article for this criterion.". Do not endorse G11, but wonder if there's any point in sending it to AfD where it is sure to die. Splash - tk 20:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• The article is reasonably well mirrored here, at a GFDL site. Suggest improving it there until it clearly meets notability standards. GRBerry 20:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• From what I see on the notability page, CorpsVets has gone on a national tour, won a major award(DCA Championship), is the most prominent representative in the field of drum corps in Georgia, and has performed for a work of media that is notable. This can all be referenced easily within the article. Werecowmoo (talk) 20:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• That's a fair enough, good-faith challenge to a questionable speedy. Such things belong in a full AfD. I have nominated it there so please, Werecowmoo, be quick to prove your claims. Splash - tk 20:58, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Slon in Sadež (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

The article suited all veriability criteria with the source being the article at the slovenian Wikipedia. --Cptukbo (talk) 15:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• Except another Wikipedia article can't be a reliable source. At any rate, it was deleted for not asserting any importance... and really, it didn't. It just described what kind of music the band made, but didn't explain if it was at all popular, important, etc. --W.marsh 15:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

  Still, the duo got the allnational Viktor award for being promissing young musicians. Would that, a list of less important achievements and a short description of their importance be enough for the restauration of the article? --Cptukbo (talk) 16:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• My thoughts as the deleting admin are on my talk page which in part brought this here. I can't really find much on the "Victor award" as a notable source for this band. ^Khukri 17:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

  I couldn't find any official record about the 2004 Viktor-s (out of date; otherwise,here's the official Viktor site with the list of this year's awards), but I got the 2004 list at a forum (please, take my word for it being true). You can read: V kategoriji strokovnih viktorjev: Igor Bračič in Jure Karas (the Slon in Sadež duo) za obetavno medijsko osebnost.
  If the lack of importance would remain the only problem of the article (notability was also questioned - here is their short description at a popular music site and three articles about them in the weekly politics magazine Mladina (here, first three)), then I would ask to get back the article so I could add information about their Viktor and their overall popularity.

  --Cptukbo (talk) 19:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse speedy deletion - CSD A7 No reasonable assertion of importance/significance applies. -- Jreferee t/c 19:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

  I just mentioned that if the article would be restored, I would add the information about their Viktor award and about their importance for the Slovenian musical scene. Let me repete that the article was made following a red link at the List of Slovenian musicians and that other pages from that list (Pudding fields, Racija) have even less information about their importance. I would like to know why those pages are better than this one.

  --Cptukbo (talk) 19:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

  Looking at those, an editor if so inclined, wouldn't have alot of problems having them deleted via AfD either. ^Khukri 08:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

  Still, my question didn't get an answer. If I
  *add information about their Viktor award, the ranks of their songs on the charts and describe their importance for the Slovenian musical scene, perhaps describe their popularity and
  *add the forementioned sources, perhaps cutting down on the information that could be considered original research,
  then, can I get the article back? One good explanation for a "No" and I'm off. --Cptukbo (talk) 14:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

  It's hard to give you an answer without WP:BEANS coming into play. You need to overcome the reason for deletion to recreate the article. It is not a matter of Slon in Sadež being important enough for an English Wikipedia article, there needs to be enough reliable source material that is independent of Slon in Sadež to create a Wikipedia article. If you recreated the Slon in Sadež article without referencing reliable source material, the article likely would be deleted at WP:AfD five days from the recreation. You can always create a draft article in your user space and get an admin to move it to Wikipedia space if it uses enough reliable source material. -- Jreferee t/c 18:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

  So if we agree that the band is important enough for its own article and if I use material from the forementioned sources (notable enough, I hope), giving a broader description of the band's activities and achievements, am I granted permission to recreate the artice? --Cptukbo (talk) 19:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

  No. Bring the completed article back here for discussion before you recreate it. You can write a draft in your userspace.Spartaz ^Humbug! 21:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse deletion as proper A7, Startaz has a good recommendation although not strictly required as speedy deletions have no preclusive effect. However, repeated recreations that keep failing just make more work for everybody, so best to do this in user space. If this group is notable, there should be lots of press coverage of them in the lively Slovenian press. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 06:58, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
• Overturn the Slovenian music scene seems a valid encyclopedic topic. Any red link from this list should not be speedily deleted. Sources can be added from discussion above. Catchpole (talk) 12:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

King George II Inn (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

Contested Prod. Would like a chance to expand the article. --evrik ^(talk) 14:45, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

• In fact, this was an A7 speedy. However, the article had been rather unfortunately edited in a rather zealous application of WP:V. I'll restore, revert and leave it to you to source the claims quickly enough that it doesn't suffer a repetition of the same fate. Splash - tk 15:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• Well if this really is "the oldest Inn in the United States" and "the oldest continuously operated business in the United States" then obviously we should have an article on it. But I find those claims both to be a bit dubious and would like to see a good source. --W.marsh 15:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Christopher Caldwell(programmer) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (restore|cache|AfD)

Still working on it adding references, reasons it should be there. This article is used by other articles (Multiplayer, Net Daemons Associates) ChristopherCaldwell (talk) 00:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC) An editor has asked for a deletion review of Christopher Caldwell(programmer). Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article or speedy-deleted it, you might want to participate in the deletion review. ChristopherCaldwell (talk) 00:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)