Talk:Delta Ibo

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Delta Ibo is within the scope of WikiProject Nigeria, a collaborative attempt to improve articles related to Nigeria. Please participate by editing the article or visiting the project page for more details. If you nominate a Nigeria-related page for deletion, please list it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Nigeria.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

It is requested that a map or maps be included in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in Nigeria may be able to help!

It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality, if possible. Wikipedians in Nigeria may be able to help!

[edit] Why derogatory?

...sometimes spelt Delta-Igbo but considered derogatory when used in this form..." Badagnani 23:30, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe I'm bringing some emotion into this. My language is Ukwani and no Delta Ibo person accepts he's Igbo although the Igbo inisit that they are. Scholars have always spelt it Delta Ibo and never Delta-Igbo. Azuka 23:38, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Aha! Good to have an expert here on the subject. I didn't know of the distinction. Do the Delta Ibo languages feature the special "swallowed" syllable represented by the "g" in "Igbo" as well? Badagnani 23:51, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Swallowed syllable indeed :) -- no it doesn't. It's quite funny to observe that although the languages are related, there are lots of differences. The Igbos for example don't like it spelt Ibo. Azuka 23:54, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The whole concept of trying to deny or separate from their mother tongue is shamefully unique only to the Igbo in Nigeria. Other ethnic groups are not known to have diminished their ethnic groups because of a separate origin. Europeans are coming together for peace and prosperity in the European Union. Those who share the same patrimony should be coming together rather than looking for flimsy excuses to drive themselves further apart. Lawrence february 2007

Identity crisis or identity deception must be a terrible mental illness for those who habour it.Azuka for example claims on one hand that he is Ukwuani, Delta Ibo, on the other hand he claims he is not Igbo, but ironically both Ibo and Igbo refers to the same ethnic group, so who is he fooling? If only Azuka is familiar with his history, or can do a little ethnologue research, he would perhaps save himself this cheap, stupid, unnecesary and shameful identity crisis.None should be surprised though at this macabre dance of identity deception. Nigeria is a nation founded on fraud, and thrives on fraud. That is why the nation has failed, and will continue to fail. Any nation where rather than being proud of one's identity, the people engage in identity abracadabra can never succeed, because ethnic pride, dignity and nationalism are neccesary aspects of the advancement of nations.

The real and authentic Igbo people, known for their creativity, enterprise and hardwork, and who incidentally constitute one of the 3 major and largest ethnic groups in Nigeria, cannot in the least be bothered by the idle and ignorant rantings of disgruntled and confused betraying "judas" like Azuka and his ilk, who represent the faultlines that have held Nigeria down. The Azuka group spend all their time searching for differences and inventing schemes to cause dis-harmony and divide the people at a time when Europeans are coming together in harmony to work for their common good. May God save his divisive soul.Lawrence may 2007 --—Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.120.171.211 (talk • contribs) Badagnani 17:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe I've already replied you on Talk:Ukwuani. I don't stoop so low as to trade insults. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page. There may yet be hope for you. Azuka 18:28, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Azuka, where were you when the Jan.1966 coup led by Major Kaduna Nzeogwu from present day Delta state was described as an Igbo coup? Perhaps if present day revisionists like you had come out then to announce to other Nigerians that Major Kaduna Nzeogwu was not Igbo, the Igbo would probably have been spared the tragedy which led to the civil-war, and their subsequent fall from grace from the lofty heights, influence and domineering positions they had occupied in Nigeria prior to the coup and civil-war. It is important to note here that even in the thick of the crisis that came with the coup, the Igbo never for once denied Major Kaduna Nzeogwu. They stuck with the reality of his undeniable Igbo origins, faced the odds, fought the war and the rest is history. It is a shame that in spite of these sacred truths, and in spite of the legacy of Chief Dennis Osadebay, a frontline Igbo nationalist from present day Delta state, and founder of the then " Igbo state union" people like you can come to the public space to peddle falsehoods, and seek to create divisions amongst native Igbo speakers whose destiny to be Igbo was ordained by God. What have you done to alleviate the sufferings of our teeming masses who merely exist, outside seeking to cause mischief and sow the seeds of hatred and dis-harmony? I have a hunch you a neither Igbo nor from Delta state, you are probably a Nigerian from other tribes undertaking a hatchet job to sow the seeds of division among the Igbo, there are many like you in Nigeria, but i can assure you, you will fail. Lawrence 22 May

In West Africa, some groups who speak similar languages were not formerly related ethnic groups, but when a dominant ethnic group took over (such as the Soninke or Mandinka), other ethnic groups would begin speaking that language. This has happened in the Roman Empire and other parts of the world as well. Many of these groups are well aware of this process and will say "We speak Soninke but we're not the real Soninke; go up the river to such-and-such village and you'll find them." So maybe that's the process that happened with the Igbo and Delta Ibo? Badagnani 18:47, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I suppose the history of the Igbo isn't as clearcut as those of the other ethnic groups. Some of the tribes around the Niger migrated from elsewhere [my family for example, traces its roots to Benin, and my surnames (Okuleye and Okwuedei) don't sound typically Igbo]. Through a process of intermingling, most of the tribes West of the Niger tend to form an 'ethnic soup.' Opinions differ , and I haven't made any absolute statements as Lawrence is trying to. I'm pretty sure of the Ukwuani, but if you'll notice I haven't made any claims considering the others. The 'Delta-Ibo' name wasn't chosen by the people living in that area -- the name was conferred on them by outsiders. The controversy lies there.

Badagdani, with regards to your statement about the 'we are not the real Soninke analogy', my father, as well as some Ukwuani people I have spoken to have said, 'you speak a dialect of the Igbo language but you are not Igbo.' Lawrence and I can't be the only two people you should base your views on -- this topic has been argued ad nauseam elsewhere and is just as controversial outside as it is here.

Mr Okuleye, this your statement is exactly what "identity crisis" means. If you speak an Igbo dialect not through forceful conquest, or through colonialism but as an original mother tongue yet you claim you are not Igbo, then what are you? Perhaps you are from another planet? I am really sorry for you guys who will end up being neither here nor there.Lawrence 23 May

Back to the 1966 coup. You just shot yourself in the foot Lawrence. To the Northerners, anybody towards the South who isn't Yoruba is Igbo. Does that make the Efiks and Ibibios who were lynched Igbo? Azuka 18:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Before i begin let me observe that the name Okuleye is a clear cut Yoruba undisputable name, and i am convinced you are Yoruba undertaking a hatchet job. Now kindly go back to your History books, the people in Anioma was formerly refered to as Western Igbo, later Midwest Igbo, later Bendel Igbo, and now Delta Igbo.At that time in the 1st republic when they were being refered to as Western Igbo, nobody from that area denied it. The Northerners had elites among them who knew the difference between the Igbo and others.Even before and during the war they sought actively to cause divisions between the Igbo and the Eastern minorities which partially suceeded. Most officers from the Anioma area fought on the Biafran side as a measure of Igbo solidarity, even though the Midwest was not officially part of Biafra.

When the riots and lynchings initially started in the North all Southerners including the Yoruba was targetted, Obasanjo himself in his book explained how he narrowly escaped death. The original intention of the North was to seccede, but when they were persuaded by the British to change their mind they narrowed the lynchings down to the Igbo.If The North could not distinguish between the Igbo and others why was  Midwest region not part of Biafra, and why were there massacres in Asaba and other Anioma areas and none in the Edo and Urhobo areas? My brother stop peddling cheap falsehoods. The Igbo Origin of Major Nzeogwu was well known to the Northern military officers,politicians and elites in the press, who tagged the coup an Igbo coup.

Besides all Major Nzeogwu or the present day revisionists from Anioma area needed to do in 1966,was to hold a public press conference and declare they are not Igbo, but neither Major Nzeogwu nor anybody from his area did that, and the Igbos East of the Niger never for once denied Major Nzeogwu. If Major Nzeogwu had been a Yoruba man for example, without any doubt the East would have immediately issued a press release detailing the Yoruba origin of Nzeogwu, and Nzeogwu's Yoruba community would have also acted in that regard. The fact that neither Nzeogwu, his Anioma community, nor the East disclaimed his Igbo identity at that time in spite of the glaring consequences must have been because they beleived he was Igbo, so cut the crap. Lawrence 23 May

My dear Badagdani, i am sorry, but if you are familiar with Igbo history, you would realise that unlike the Yoruba, Hausa, or the Soninke that you refered to, the Igbo had no empire. Since the Igbo never had any empires, it was impossible for them to take over any group and force them to speak their language as the Romans, Hausa, soninke etc did. What this means is that all native Igbo speakers East and West of the Niger are very original, perhaps the only truely original amongst the 3 major Nigerian ethnic groups. The Hausa and Yoruba were known to have had kingdoms which engaged in conquests and in the process forced some of their conquered subjects into speaking their language and religion. This underscores the point why the Igbo must have extreme solidarity in love and brotherhood to fight against poverty and for their emancipation. Finally Ibo and Igbo refers to the same ethnic group,just the same way as Holland and Netherlands, or England and Britain refers to the same nation. Kindly ignore the mischievous Azuka who i suspect is undertaking a hatchet job. Lawrence 22 may.

Very interesting--they traveled across the river and gradually acquired a distinct identity. That's not unknown around the world. Just a point of fact: what is the percent of intelligibility between the two languages? Badagnani 05:39, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

There are such examples of ethnic groups who speak closely related languages but who consider themselves to be a distinct ethnic group (distinct from the majority ethnic group they're closely related to). An example are the Gorale of Poland. Badagnani 19:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Badagdani, from my brief research, i can see the ethnic identity of the said group was politicised just the same way as Mr Okunleye and some other hatchet merchants are trying to politicise the Igbo identity in post-war Nigeria.

[edit] Mix of language and people

This article starts off by talking about a language and then suddenly veers into talking about the Ibo people. I think the article should start off talking about the people, and let the language be a section of the article to avoid confusing the two topics. If there are no objections, I can come back and do that. Rjhatl (talk) 19:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)