Talk:Deftones

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Deftones article.
Article policies
To-do list for Deftones: edit · history · watch · refresh
  • Add more images to the article (preferably free ones)
  • Add illustrative audio samples
  • Copyedit entire biography
  • Cite all references, sales figures etc etc

statements lacking sources

  • In interviews, Moreno has stated that some of the lyrics are intentionally misprinted to cover up vulgarity. For example, at the beginning of "Feiticeira", the liner notes read "Stop I'm drunk" when Chino quite audibly sings "Fuck I'm drunk". In the song "Street Carp", the lyric booklet states a line of lyric as "Now take it home and have fun with it", when what he actually sings is "Now take it home and fuck with it." Similarly, on "Change (In the House of Flies)", the booklet reads "Give you the lung, blow me away", when he actually sings "Give you the gun, blow me away".

Contents

[edit] Meaning of name

what does the name "deftones" mean? WHere does it come from? whats the story behind it? (this is the reason i looked it up on here to begin with)


i seem to recall a video interview where they discussed their name. I wouldn't know where to begin finding it though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.4.40 (talk) 13:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nu-Metal?

I'm seeing a general pattern of idiotic genre-labelling on band pages and I really don't feel it's helpful because the terms are so broad and unspecific most of the time. Do we really need to lump bands in to such specific genres and make silly little lists? - Phorque

I agree with Phorque. These labels are too broad and unspecific and they don't mean anything. Instead of labeling bands we should just listen to the music and not worry about what's what. If the first question you ask when hearing about a band is "What are they, like Emo or Metal or Punk rock?" then you probably don't care too much about the music. You just care about the image your gonna get by listening to them-Leandreamo

Difficult question. In my opinion Deftones are to be considered a nu metal band, not because they fit the tipical stereotypes necessary. But we know that the term nu metal is something difficult to define. We have "famous" bands like KoRn, Limp Bizkit or Linkin Park which don't seem to each other, but we consider them nu metal. I agree with you (phorque) in some way. I think all these bands have their own style and we can call it alterative metal, which often is simply called nu metal. Deftones forever

They're a hair metal band, dammit! just accept it!

I liked the article revision that listed them as "Cock rock". =P - Phorque 05:52, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

No freaking way guys.... alternative is NOT Deftones. The Deftones are nu metal... If you're looking for a specific definition you're not going to get one... The sub-genres of rock don't describe the specifics, they describe the GENERAL style. You can't just say it's heavy guitars, with singing/screaming, heavy drum beats, and meloncholy lyrics. That's pretty much what nu metal is, but if you use just those words to describe it, you also get, screamo, industrial punk, emocore, post-hardcore, and a thousand other genres. I am changing it back to nu metal right now and if you think I'm wrong, ask any fan on any deftones forum what they consider the genre to be. Bands like Deftones, Helmet, Staind (whether they like it or not), etc. STARTED nu metal! Don't take it out of the genre categorizing!!!!!!!!!!!! --Jpagel 14:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Sincerely where do you find the HIP HOP influence in their music? --Baxtaba 20:20, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The ol hippidy hoppidy influences are floating around in there. The rapping on the first album, the collaborations with B-real from Cypress Hill, etc. Andrew Seymour 03:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

And don't forget Wicked, with Chino and Korn. Thats a cover of an Ice T song if i am not mistaken. I think that they are a mix of alot of things really, due to the differences between each album. You've got Heavy Metal, Nu-Metal, Alt, Dream Pop in some instances and (as much as i hate to say it) you've got some punkish sounds going on in there, although very slight. This is why i like Deftones, because they are so different. 10:58, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, incorporating various influences from hip hop, hardcore, alternative, heavy metal, pop and grunge is what nu metal does. I think it's a little reactionary not to list them as nu metal. -Switch t 11:45, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
I've changed it back to alternative metal, but this is the last time. So many things support this, as the previous user stated "they are so different", as one of the quotes in the opening paragraph says "Rock critics usually reserve a special place for Deftones above or at least away from the rest of the turn-of-the-century metal movement", it all supports (to me at least) what the alternative metal page says: "an incorporation of a wide range of influences outside of the metal music scene", "unique approach to metal music", "difficult to define as strictly metal or alternative". I believe Deftones deserve a little more credibility. To most people, nu metal is a dirty word, and the alt metal article lists it as a "derivative form". If someone changes it back, whatever. I've had this argument with friends, and I certainly don't plan to continue bashing my head against a brick wall on wikipedia. Peace. - Phorque 12:29, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. I do not think they should be labeled a derogatory and vague term such as "nu metal" - The Truthish 00:39, 24 Dcember 2006 (UTC)
Nu Metal is an actual Genre of music, so how can it be a derogatory and vague term? Also, could somebody either take Deftones out of the examples list on Nu Metal, or add them to the genre list on the Deftones article? Talk User:Fissionfox 10:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I think their early material on Adrenaline and Around the Fur can definitely be considered Nu Metal, but beyond that it gets a bit sketchy. We could just list Nu Metal, but put earlier material" in parentheses. What does everybody else think?Tehcrusha 20:12, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

As both the alternative metal and nu metal articles both state; nu metal is a subgenre of alternative metal. Even the definition of alternative metal encompasses the "nu metal" elements that Deftones display in some of their music. Just having alternative metal/rock and experimental rock in the infobox easily and clearly describes Deftones music without pigeonholing them. The infobox doesnt need to be filled with endless subgenres, let alone untidy looking text specifying eras. Ezenden 20:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I was trying to find a compromise, but that's never going to happen. I agree with you about keeping it tidy, but there's one little teeny flaw I have. Going by that logic, no bands could be labeled as Nu Metal simply because it's a sub-genre? Thats like saying you can't call a band Grindcore because it's a sub-genre of Hardcore. Not trying to start an argument, just trying to understand where you're coming from.Tehcrusha 15:39, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Plenty would be of the old school thought that there are too many genres nowadays and the differences between many are so minimal and in plenty of cases, non-existent, they arent even noteworthy. Of course, that's a whole massive debate on it's own. My point is that Deftones' nu metal material isnt major compared to those commonly regarded as nu metal (Korn, Linkin Park, POD etc). The alternative/experimental tags incorporate the whole array of heavy metal/hard rock Deftones display. If you're going to add nu metal, then why not post-grunge, dream pop, hardcore punk, rapcore etc too? Ezenden 16:31, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I see what your saying. I guess the Deftones are more or less a major influence on later so-called "Nu Metal" bands than practitioners of said-genre. Its such a complex issue to the point that we could make the same argument for the above mentioned bands (Korn, Linkin Park, and P.O.D), but I don't want to get into that. Ughh... My head hurts.Tehcrusha 17:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

If Deftones is Nu Metal, why don't any of the separate album articles state this. And how can you be Nu-Metal when you are Experimental? Nu Metal has a reputation for being... unoriginal. Which the Deftones aren't. -Unregistered

Many disagree with me, but if you listen to Adrenaline and Around The Fur, there are undeniable elements of what was later called "Nu-Metal". Obviously, from White Pony until now, they've done a lot to shed that tag. Like I said above, their not really a Nu-Metal band as a whole, but their influence (along with Korn, Helmet, and Faith No More) on later Nu-Metal bands (like the aformentioned Linkin Park and P.O.D.) is undeniable.Tehcrusha 17:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The only reason most people call it nu metal is because chino used to rap and scream like the nu metal bands did, but do they have funk bass slaps? also the mr bungle influenced guitar riffs korn created are also definetly a part of the genre Deftones are just an alternative rock/metal band because they actually dont have any genre, they did create a style much nu metal bands took on later, but does that mean that faith no more's epic is also nu metal? it doesnt make any sense. They're perhaps experimental rock, but for me their styles of alternative rock explains enough. Deftones practice just any sort of genre you could ever think of: hiphop/dream pop/shoegaze/triphop/heavy metal and so on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.163.35.221 (talk) 15:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] spam tag

i'm just wondering what the spam tag on the page is referring to? Mwhale 05:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Nindeftones

So err, whats with the logo, Glassjaw420wt? Kingping 12:45, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Typo?

In the first paragraph it says "(Incidentally, Carpenter is generally credited with "strings", although he actually plays anything other than guitar.)". Is that meant to read that he "rarely plays anything other than guitar", or maybe "never plays anything other than guitar" (I'm not sure which is accurate), because he does, in fact, play guitar.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.82.9.61 (talk • contribs)

Well I think it has probably got something to do with Chino really! because even on the Team Sleep album the guitarist is credited as doing "strings"..I think all it means is that he writes the music for every guitar/bass/other stringed instruments on the album..or something like that -- - K a s h Talk | email 11:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

It simply means that he plays the guitar. "Strings" is a slang term for the guitar. He does not write all of the string based instrument sections. Chino writes some guitar, Chi writes his own bass parts when he is not following the guitar. Articles I have read about the band point in that direction and that is generally how a rock band works.Typhoid Orchid 19:36, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Experimental?

It says "Experimental-rock".. Wasn't it fine as Alternative-Metal, like most of the main rock bands now (System of a Down, Breaking Benjamin, Korn)Stonesour025 21:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Deftones have experimental tendencies, but they're alt-metal overall. Theragman 07:09, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I also agree. Deftones are not an "experimental rock" band. That must change. --Willers 02:17, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I think experimental rock is an accurate enough term. There are numerous sources that state that the band is experimental and are willing to experiment. I think putting down experimental rock is accurate. Common Sense7 07:35, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, "experimental rock" is satisfactory. The Deftones are certainly an experimental band, incorporating numerous genres and sounds into their music. It's so hard to define the band, but I agree that "experimental rock" and "alternative metal/rock" are accurate terms. The Truthish 00:39, 24 Dcember 2006 (UTC)

They are a fairly reactionary band tho. Isis Neurosis etc have been doing that sound for many years, so you cant call Deftones experimental. experimentla by the definition of the word emplys somthing new and different, which they are not.

just call them alternative metal, no need to throw 'experimental' in there, it just smacks of "wow their just so super awesome, aint nuthin like em", i rolled my eyes when i saw both alternative and experimental in there. even if they are experimental, there is no need to be that specific, they are an alternative metal band, thats as specific as we need to be without getting into deftones dick sucking like 'experimental alternative genre redefining grammy award winning band who actually invented music'


What sound are you talking about? Deftones have many sounds.
I't's obvious experimental rock is a genre coming from alternative rock, deftones are also metal, so shouldnt just 2 genres be enough?

and since theyre alternative rock anyways, why are they removed constantly out of the list?

[edit] Say What Now?

I don't understand the following sentence:

A Disclaimer here: the song's original name was "Beware The Water" which much more liked title than just "Beware".

A disclaimer is defined by The Free Dictionary as "A repudiation or denial of responsibility or connection." My kneejerk impression is that should read something more like... "Interesting to note is that the song's original name was "Beware The Water," which was a much more popular title than just 'Beware'." Ipso-De-Facto 07:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Complete Videography?

It is mentioned both here as well as on the B-Sides & Rarities that the album includes a complete videography. This is incorrect.

There is a video for Street Carp as well as one for Korea. And the new video for Hole In The Earth has been released as well. Either way, bsides isn's a COMPLETE videography. Just thought Id point this out. Lamentingvampire09 10:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My introduction and some minor things I was wondering about

Im willing to help out in other ways if I can, I love Deftones. Seeing them live in November again(3rd time this year). You need me to help with something I will help if I can.

  • 1) I was wondering about the tour dates towards the end of the article. Family Values is over with so they arent currently on that tour. Theyre launching up a tour with Deadsy in a week or so as seen on their [homepage]. I dont know enough about their previous tours but It would be worth noting when and where they were touring as well as which album they were touring in support of and putting it the respective album section. That way people can have a good idea of what Chino and Co. were doing in between recording. Were they on tour? Were they taking a break? writing more? the article should have these things.
  • 2) Also, I know the SNW section isnt going to be perfect for at least another few months so maybe we could try and expand the other albums' sections. SNW isnt even out yet and its section is as big as White Pony's. And Around The Fur needs alot more information because that was really their breakout album.
  • 3) We also need to get more recent figures for the total album sales and RIAA certification. I personally have no idea where to get such information, but perhaps someone else has an idea.

I think this is good for now, but I know we will still need to work on more things later on. Lamentingvampire09 10:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More band confusion

Until today, I didn't realise that the Mighty Mighty Bosstones were a different band. I had been saying Mighty Mighty Deftones for years, and always wondered why other people often left out the mightys. Add these bands to Phish and Reel Big Fish(Formerly one band called Reel Big Phish as far as I knew) to the list. 172.161.30.29 11:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

What the--- Is this a joke? - 20 December 2006
This is FASCINATING —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seegoon (talk • contribs) 21:51, 23 December 2006 (UTC).
hahahah... wtf...? (-Kid. 15:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC))
wtf x3 Glitterglue 09:28, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Genre

OK, the editing of Deftones' genre is never-ending, and to be honest, needs sorting. I see alternative metal, alternative rock, experimental metal, experimental rock, nu-metal, metal, rock... all these terms are banded around daily. What needs doing is for us to decide on one genre and for a section to be written regarding their sound and genre. Should everyone put forward their arguments coherently, I volunteer to type it up into a paragraph for inclusion in the main body of the article, hopefully ending this edit warring. For the article to ever be recognised as a decent piece of work, it needs to be stable, and warring over things like this makes that out of the question. So - my two cents: I vote the most relevant terms to discuss are nu-metal and alternative metal. They formed around the time of nu-metal and spent most of their formative years with Korn and so forth. But the sound isn't strictly nu-metal; Moreno's vocals make that impossible. That's where I believe they start to fall under alternative metal. I could go on but I haven't really got my thoughts together, which is why I'm asking you all to discuss the matter and try to formulate some kind of answer. Aight. GO. Seegoon 21:58, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Order of 'eras'

I'm not too pleased with the order of the history. It goes from B-Sides & Rarities (2005) to Saturday Night Wrist (2004-). Would we be able to merge the B-sides section into the SNW section, seeing as it contains only three lines of information? A-Thousand-Lies 22:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I reckon it'd be preferable for the B-Sides section to be expanded - as for the order, SNW did come out after B-Sides, so as it stands the order makes chronological sense. What does need work is the context going alongside the B-Sides section. Once context for the release of the album is established - i.e. why it was released and what news is relevant to the band at the time of release and production - the article will regain its flow. Seegoon 02:05, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accused?

Here is the list of genres on the article:

Experimental rock Alternative metal Alternative rock Also accused of Nu Metal

Nu metal is not an insult or a crime! Putting "Nu metal" on there will do...

Zouavman Le Zouave (Talk to me! • O)))) 13:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Why must you define a genre. they are in a genre of thier own, leave it at that.

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Adrenaline.jpeg

Image:Adrenaline.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Deftones.jpeg

Image:Deftones.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 00:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Like-linus.jpg

Image:Like-linus.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:48, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Furiously intelligent lyrics?

Trying to find a TIME source for this, I found, instead: "Deftones may achieve longevity, but in the short term it looks as if it will enjoy some hefty sales as well. White Pony--a fiercely intelligent album that mixes thrashing rock, subtle hip-hop grooves and imagistic lyrics--sold 178,000 copies in its first week in stores and debuted at No. 3 on the Billboard charts..."

I'm wondering if the "fiercely intelligent album" bit got coopted and misquoted? --Katfights 11:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

There have been a lot of misquotes in the article, but I'm slowly trying to hunt down sources and rectify all the innaccuracies. - Phorque (talk) 11:56, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] White Pony

I can't help but feel that it would be relatively easy to spruce White Pony up, possibly even to GA, or even FA. I'm sure it's been quite heavily covered by the music press, so decent sources oughtn't be too tough to locate. Anyone up for it? Seegoon (talk) 16:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm slowly seeing what sources I can dig up for this article, so I'm sure whatever I find along my way should help you. It's tiring, because this referencing is slowly turning into a full-rewrite... but we'll see. - Phorque (talk) 16:56, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
It's tougher than I thought it'd be. I suppose its release predates online magazines being widely available, so it'd be ideal to gather print copies of reviews or whatever, but Christ knows I don't have any. What I'm going to do is to create a list of all sources I can find on the article's talk page, and pull some decent quotes. Eventually it might be worth rewriting the whole thing. Seegoon (talk) 17:18, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Behind the scenes work

I just sorted out some stuff at the newly created {{Deftones}}, including band members, singles, albums and whatnot. I'm also planning a WikiProject. I'll keep you all posted. Seegoon (talk) 04:52, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Sweet. As you can probably tell from the edit history, I've been slowly rewriting this article's band history section, sticking to notable/citable material that I am digging up off music websites and magazine article scans/transcriptions on fansites. As well as that I'm adding a sample from each album to illustrate how their music has grown and evolved, based on what reviewers and the band say about the albums' change in sound.
It would be awesome to have some copyediting on the stuff I get down, as my first attempts at prose often tend to not be my best, but at least they have references. I have a further view to making a musical style/influences section (the band members cite lots of notable acts as their influences) and then re-imagining the lead based on all the verifiable material that's been included in the "re-written" article. - Phorque (talk) 10:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes pulled from Lambgoat interview

As it stands, it was just an external link, but I thought I'd pull some decent quotes from Lambgoat's interview with Stef Carpenter. Here's the citeweb:

{{cite web | last = Ailes| first = Drew| title = Deftones interview| publisher = Lambgoat| date = [[2006-03-27]]| url = http://www.lambgoat.com/features/interviews/deftones.aspx| accessdate = 2007-12-20}}

Which produces:

Ailes, Drew (2006-03-27). Deftones interview. Lambgoat. Retrieved on 2007-12-20.

On the material from Saturday Night Wrist:

I personally wish it was more aggressive.

Concept albums? Fuck nah:

You know, we've never really had a concept on any of them [their albums]. The way we all explain it is it's just a part of our lives, that period of time and where we're at. I don't think anyone sits down with any plan in mind, it just ends up becoming what it is. It's almost like the artist and the canvas. He might have an idea, but once he starts going, that thing can morph a million ways.

On whether he likes everything everyone in the band listens to {i.e. how eclectic their influences are):

Oh yeah. There's definitely times where I gotta leave the room. I think we all do that to each other, though. It's a good way to get some privacy. Put on some music that you know no one likes. They'll just go the opposite direction, quick. It's a polite way of telling someone to fuck off.

It's actually pretty tangential shit. Maybe there'll be some pertinent stuff for the Stephen Carpenter article. Seegoon (talk) 10:43, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Handy source

{{citeweb|first=Greg|last=Barr|date=[[2003-07-31]]|url=http://www.houstonpress.com/2003-07-31/music/korn-shuckers/|title=Korn Shuckers|publisher=[[Houston Press]]|accessdate=2007-12-24}}

This article is pretty decent for quotefarming, especially with regards to nu-metal, messages and classification. Should be a generally handy source. Seegoon (talk) 16:56, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Handy source take two

All in all, you should find some decent stuff around here, if you dig deep enough. Seegoon (talk) 21:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kerrang! on the new album

I don't buy Kerrang. I feel ashamed to write it down. But it said Deftones on the front cover, so it had to be mine. Anyway. It talks a lot about the new album, the inter-relationships within the band, and quite focussed stuff in general. If you want any content, just say and I'll copy some down. Seegoon (talk) 12:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Why not add those here? - Phorque (talk) 14:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] picture

Give me a reason why the past picture was changed, I mean, it was perfect, I think is very stupíd and annoying how Wikipedia has so many restrictions about posting pictures. I'm starting to hate Wikipedia for that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.45.204.82 (talk) 18:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't hate Wikipedia. Hate copyright. - Phorque (talk) 18:09, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Experimental rock

I've listened to the Deftones for quite a while and anyone else that has done so synonymously would agree that - at least - their last three records namely White Pony, Deftones and Saturday Night Wrist can be categorized as Experimental Rock... my initial proof for this is reviews such as all music guide. I therefore added E.R to the genre list and if you disagree upon the matter i sugest that you discuss it here first. PS - E.R is also one of the genres stated in the individual articles for the Deftones' albums.

==How subjective can you get? ==

In the opening paragraph someone stated Deftones are "Widely considered as one of the greatest rock bands of all time..." C'mon now. That's about as subjective a statement as one can make and has no place in an encyclopedic article. There's simply no way to back this statement up with anything other than people's opinions.67.90.21.66 (talk) 18:55, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation between the band and the album.

I added a disambiguation to point to the self-titled, in a manner almost exactly the same as in Gorillaz (of course, I just copied it and changed the text to match). However, I wasn't sure if there should be "the" before the band name. It's plural, but "the" is never used in the band's name, so I'm confused about this. I didn't add it in the end, but if it's wrong, you know what to do. Just leave a note on my talk page afterwards, please. Litis (talk) 19:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)