Talk:Defacement (flag)
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"Defaced" is most certainly not a term used in this context in heraldry. --Daniel C. Boyer 15:56, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
I question the example given. Is the charging of the canton of the US flag with stars really defacement? It seems to me that a better example of defacement is when a symbol is added onto an existing flag or coat, such as the Canadian Red Ensign. - 67.68.232.11 09:42, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
You're right. The Wednesday Island 12:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I liked this example of when defacement goes really bad: [1]. The Wednesday Island 12:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Defaced" has Negative connotations and it is insulting to say a national flag is "defaced"
I can't find a positive definition of "defaced" anywhere in a dictionary. I do find plenty of negative connotations and I think the use of this word is insulting in the context of a national flag.
dictionary.com de·face 1. to mar the surface or appearance of; disfigure: to deface a wall by writing on it. 2. to efface, obliterate, or injure the surface of, as to make illegible or invalid: to deface a bond.
Synonyms 1. spoil. See mar.
American Heritage Dictionary
1. To mar or spoil the appearance or surface of; disfigure. 2. To impair the usefulness, value, or influence of. . Obsolete To obliterate; destroy.
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law
Main Entry: de·face
1. to destroy or mar the face or surface of —de·face·ment noun —de·fac·er noun
Oxford English Dictionary
deface
verb spoil the surface or appearance of.
- That's why the article says that the term has a negative meaning in its general usage. However, this isn't general usage that woudl appear in a general dictionary, this is a technical vexillological term. See a Dictionary of Vexillology. If you think the term is insulting, it is simply because you are not used to its technical meaning. You can see where it comes from by considering one of the definitions in the Macquarie Dictionary: "2. to blot out; obliterate; efface." A defacement on a flag, whether honourable or not, blots out part of the flag. JPD (talk) 09:46, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
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- You can't dispute it just because you are not familiar with the English language.
DEFACE:
(v) To add any authorised emblem, badge, shield, charge or device to a flag (see also ‘archivexillum’, ‘badge’, ‘charge’, 'device', ‘emblem’ ‘shield’) and undefaced. Please note that in heraldry and vexillology the term has no pejorative connotation (but see also ‘desecrate’ and disfigure).
Wayne 18:03, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
- You can't dispute it just because you are not familiar with the English language.
[edit] Example
I don't like the example given, the Australian flag is old enough to stand on its own and isn't legally described as a defacement of any other flags, one may as well say that the British Blue Ensign is a blue field defaced with a Union Flag in the canton. I think a better example involving the Australian flag would be the Customs flag, which defaces the regular national flag with the word 'Customs'. Better yet we could simply not use any presently-used national flags, there is a plethora of other flags and while the word defacement doesn't imply anything negative it may still cause unnecessary problems and misunderstanding when we stick the present-day flag of an existing nation as an example. +Hexagon1 (t) 16:05, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
