Talk:Decebalus

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
This article is supported by the Royalty and nobility work group.
However, Dacorum is the pural genitive form of Dacus, and means "of the Dacians", like in 'Cohors Primae Dacorum' (the first Cohorts of the Dacians).

"Dacorum" is indeed the plural genitive of Dacus, but in Latin! Decebal's name was obviously Dacian. Bogdan | Talk 14:49, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

you mean the name Decebalus was teh name that the Dacians gave him ?, or was Decebalus a supername that the romans gave him ? is there a historic source saying that the form Decebalus was a dacian supername in dacian language ? Criztu 21:53, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Decebalus means nothing in Latin, therefore it cannot be Latin and most likely is that it is in the language of the native Dacians. Bogdan | Talk 22:24, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
what i'm asking you is if you have a reference to where is this name Decebalus attested. is there an ancient document saying Decebalus was the Dacian name in Dacian Language by which the Dacians called their king ?
The form Decebalus, from what I understand and seen from photos, was inscribed by the Dacians themselves on a Dacian bowl. No "baal" was found inscribed...Alexander 007 18:35, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

... i coud think of Daci+Baal or Dece+Baal (i understand Dece Decu was a latin root for "fame" , "rank", "superlative", but i can't say i am sure ...) it would be great to know exactly which ancient text mentions Decebalus for the first time, and if there were any explanations to what his name could have meant, or if it was a dacian name by which the dacians supernamed in dacian language their leader Criztu 22:59, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

see the example of Roman Emperor Elagabalus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus Criztu 23:02, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  1. "bal" is an Indo-European root that is known to have been used in Dacian in some placenames and kept in words such as Romanian "balaur"
i'm thinking at the parthian god of war Bel Marduk - from babylonian Criztu 00:01, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  1. Also it appears that in Phrygian, which was probably closely related to Thracian and Dacian, "balaios" meant 'big, fast' See this
  2. the genitive change from "a" to "e" is still used in Albanian and possible even in Romanian: Maria -> Mariei (I'm not quite sure about the Romanian part, I'll have to look for this up)
I made a mistake here - i was thinking at the Latin "genitive plural", i see it was about a suposed "genitive plural" in Dacian :"). Do you happen to know what source speaks of "Durpaneus was named Decebalus by the dacians" ? I know there was a (single) mention in ancient writings (Jordanes?) about the "dacians named him Decebalus for his bravery" or "he was named Decebalus by all the dacians", but i'm not sure what ancient writer said that Criztu 23:45, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  1. there was *no* known contact ever between Dacians and Hebrews, so how could it be Baal ? Elagabalus was born in Syria, and that's how he got his name. Bogdan | Talk 14:35, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
there is a wiki article about Belus. If the name of Decebalus was a roman form, then it has to mean something like "Dacian King". If the name of Decebalus was a dacian form, then it had some connection with the parthians Criztu 23:45, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
here an interesting article 1 ; although it speculates much, the symbolism on the dacian helmet of Cotofenesti and the symbolism in the bas-relief depicting the suicide of Decebalus on Trajan's collumn (allegedly worked by a syrian) worth reading it.
As i know, Decebalus had an alliance with the Parthians. Take a look to the depiction of a parthian from Severus' Arch 2, and compare to the depiction of dacians from Arch of Constantine 3. i don't claim i can "prove" that Decebalus or his dacians were parthians, but I think the info regarding the relation between the name of Decebalus and the name of "Elagabalus" is worth mentioning... Criztu 23:45, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
  • Again, what historical sources about the etymology of Decebalus are there? Criztu 23:45, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I also derive the -Balus in Decebalus from the PIE root *bel- ('strong') or *bhel- ('swollen, large'). The Semitic resonance is no doubt a coincidence. The Dacians weren't Semites. Alexander 007 02:50, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

'Elegabalus' is the Hellenized or Romanized form of the Semitic name (El-Jebel or something). One might say that Decebalus is also Romanized, yet: there is a Dacian bowl from Sarmizegetusa that has DECEBALUS inscribed on it---a Dacian inscription. The similarity of Dacian '-balus' to semitic 'bal/baal' or 'gevel' or whatever is surely a coincidence, and not an extreme coincidence at all. There was a Gaulish god of fire and of the sun named 'Beli', which is similar in name to Babylonian 'Bel'. Alexaner 007 07:07, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If Diurpaneus received a new "Semitic name" on some campaign or something, then both Dece- and -Balus need to be given Semitic etymologies. 'Dece' is unlikely to be from Semitic. Alexander 007 07:15, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The Parthians were Indo-European speakers, kindred to Iranians. The Syrians were Semites. The Parthians originally did not worship any "Bel" god, they would have worshipped Iranian divinities (Ahura-Mazda, etc.). The Parthian connection is not evidence for what you intended. Alexander 007 07:22, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The Semitic BA[A]L, BEL = [WAR-]LORD, MASTER; P.I.E. 'BEL' = STRONG, MIGHTY; the Latin BELLUM = WAR; and the Romanian/Albanian BALAUR = DRAGON are all from the same root. (And please stop arguing about KNOWN, or easy-to-find-out things -- it's awkward!). -- Craciun Lucian.

Contents

[edit] sources on Decebalus

does anybody know which ancient document mentions the name Decebalus for the first time ? -- Criztu 09:17, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] style

I removed the phrase "who although he did indeed kill himself, official Roman propaganda claimed that they killed him." after the sentence "It is likely, however, that in the process of dying Decebalus was captured by a Roman Cavalry Scout named Tiberius Claudius Maximus from Legio VII Claudia as is claimed on the funerary stele discovered at Gramini in Greece. " because it was grammatically awkward, and is making an unsubstantiatable claim - nobody who witnessed the death of Decebalus is alive today, and the forensic evidence is long disappeared. I did change "stated" to "claimed" to preserve the original authors intent in showing that claims made on stelae are often boastful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.207.230.17 (talk) 03:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent confusing edits by Dumaru

I reverted these yesterday, since they seemed unhelpful, badly written, and confusing. Today he has put them back in. I don't like edit wars -- does anyone else think they are of use, or should I go ahead and continue to revert? Mlouns (talk) 19:11, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to be more specific, the edits in question are way too long and rambling. I would suggest a very brief mention of the alternative definition, together with a reliable source for them. There is no need to go into such long-winded explanation in this context -- a mere mention coupled with a reference should suffice. Mlouns (talk) 19:24, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Hard" language

I find especially the first paragraph containing extreme "hard" language. "had enough of him", "vice", "annoyed", "disturbing" are all out of place in the context. It would be nice if someone proficient in English and in history polished it up a bit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Landroni (talk • contribs) 19:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)