Talk:Debit card

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[edit] Was I right there???

Reading the UK Debit card section was confusing... part of it seemed to suggest DEBIT cards are cheaper for merchands than CREDIT cards, but the line read "credit cards are cheaper than debit"!!

Im presuming that was wrong, so I swapped them over... Was I right - or - was the rest of the text wrong, or am I being just plain dumb?

Thought id post here so you dont think its just a vandalism moving it about - its not, I reccomend someone takes a look as it all seemed a bit wrong to me...

MATTHEW —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.244.182.54 (talk) 14:53, 7 September 2007 (UTC)



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This depends on the amount you're paying, the card brand, the country in which you are paying, the bank the merchant uses for payment clearing and whether the card used is a domestic or a foreign card. In some cases, using a debit card may be cheaper, while in other cases, using a credit card may be cheaper. (212.247.11.155 (talk) 21:08, 11 December 2007 (UTC))

[edit] First Para

Sorry if I'm wrong but in the first paragraph Should "writing a check" not be writing a cheaque"

Cheque is how the rest of the world spells 'check'. However, I assume Wikipedia is written in American English? ~~k

[edit] Merge

EFTPOS and debit cards seem to be the same thing in most respects. Reading these articles is appears that all EFTPOS transactions require a card, and that the card is virtually always called a debit card! The exceptions are few if any. The biggest exception is the US and their slightly antiqated banking system. However if you read the websites for Maestro and Visa (both US companies) they refer to them as debit cards.

The article could be sucessfully merged quite easily and simply include a list of country differences for names and interbank systems etc. The overall principle is the same! simonthebold 17:28, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Those in favour say aye:

"However if you read the websites for Maestro and Visa (both US companies) they refer to them as debit cards."
I'm not sure what you mean. At least in Sweden, Maestro is always a normal debit card, just like VISA, VISA Electron and MasterCard.
"EFTPOS" sounds like the kind of thing that is known as "J-Debit" in Japan, where you use a "cash card" from a Japanese bank together with your four-digit PIN code. "Cash card" is the Japanese word for "cash dispenser card". When using J-Debit, your bank account is charged immediately. There is a lot of information about this on the Japanese page for debit card. (Stefan2 13:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC))
Go Ahead, Merge It
EFTPOS is the same as a debit card, but can be seen as a localised brand or name which operates amongst numerous or all retail banks in a particular country (for example in Australia, NZ and other countries mentioned on the EFTPOS page).
The same system goes by different names in other countries, for example in Singapore it is called NETS.
Having a separate article for EFTPOS is misleading, as is the section of "EFTPOS in particular countries" which gives an impression that such a debit card system is only used in the countries mentioned, when it is actually used in a large number of countries with a medium to high per capita GDP (Even Indonesia with a low per capita GDP of $3,600 (compared with $30,300 in the UK) has various debit card/EFTPOS systems for individual or groups of banks, but no one single national system as in most Western countries and Singapore etc).
Hence EFTPOS should be merged into the Debit Card article as a "debit card brands and national systems around the world" or something to that effect. Someone can take on the interesting challenge of identifying a lot of those systems, and thus improve the "country neutrality" of this article at the same time.
Troy88 05:14, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge completed as no dissenting voices. simonthebold 23:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Bring back EFTPOS
My understanding is that 'electronic funds transfer at point of sale' is a system used to debit an account using a Debit (or "EFTPOS") Card. EFTPOS also includes POS Terminals and back end processing.
EFTPOS is not a piece of plastic you pay with, that would be an EFTPOS card.
Expert opinion wanted then someone could bring back the EFTPOS article. ~~k
Is EFTPOS the same thing as a debit card computer system? (212.247.11.155 17:28, 4 December 2007 (UTC))
Yeah, but technically more of a protocol or a standard rather than the equipment. Definitely not a card. ~~k —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.152.115.183 (talk) 00:07, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Questions

Visa has something called a "check card", is this the same thing as a secured credit card? it's tied to a chequing account and any purchase is treated as a withdrawal from that account

No, with secured credit cards money deposited must remain untouched. It acts as collateral and defines your credit limit.

The Visa check card is a debit card. They named it a check card to make it sound original and stir up additional interest.

How long has a debit card been around for, when were they first introduced?

In this article, it says "stored-value cards are generally anonymous", while in the article on stored-value cards, it says, "Stored value credit cards are usually not anonymous." Which is correct?

It depends on the origin of the card. Generally, cards issued by stores (like gift cards) are anonymous and transferable, while cards like Visa Buxx and the American Express gift cards are issued in the recipient's name and are not transferable. It looks like the stored-value card article has already been edited to reflect this. -lee 07:25, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

In connection with measurement of international remittances by individuals using Stored Value Cards (SVC), which have "collective accounts" with sponsoring banks, is it possible to distinguish debits from such collective accounts from withdrawals using individual accounts with banks and other depository institutions, such as might be made by tourists and business travelers? e.g., using information on the magnetic stripes such as the Primary Account Number (PAN) of the account that is charged in such transactions?--JohnFWilson 19:07, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

How would such cards work in certain countries such as Sweden? If you buy something using a credit/debit card, you usually have two ways to prove that you are allowed to use the card:

  • Entering a PIN code, or
  • Showing an ID card, passport or similar, where the name written on the card must match the name on the proof of identification.

If the card doesn't have a PIN code, that option doesn't work. If a card is transferrable, the name would have to be updated whenever the card is transferred to someone else in order to work (I suppose). (212.247.11.153 21:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Online purchases?

I'm British, and places such as amazon.co.uk are quite happy to accept debit cards for online purchases. However, a Canadian friend tells me that amazon.ca will not accept them (or much else, but that's by the by). I'm assuming that this is because of the "online cards only" provision Canada has, but there's nothing in this article specifically dealing with internet purchases so I'm not certain. Loganberry (Talk) 03:37, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I have never had any trouble using my Swedish debit card (of VISA brand) at Amazon.ca. Maybe he meant that they instead block certain card brands? For example, VISA Electron and Maestro aren't issued by Japanese banks, and so they are not accepted for purchases in any Japanese store, including web shops. Cash dispensers still have to accept them (if they accept international VISA/MasterCard cards, which most of them don't) because of VISA's and MasterCard's policies. (218.228.195.44 09:33, 27 October 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Bank card?

I've lived in Western Canada my entire life, and I've never heard of the phrase "bank card". "Debit card" is the only term I've ever heard or used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.240.204.82 (talk • contribs)

A Google test, restricted to .ca sites, gives 249,000 hits for "debit card" [1] but only 23,900 for "bank card" [2]. On the strength of that, and your own experience, I'm going to change "more commonly" to "sometimes" in the "Canadian experience" section. Loganberry (Talk) 23:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Country Variations

Just a note to say that I think this article has quite a few country by country variations (as do some of the related topics), and it seems quite difficult to write 'country neutral' details. Probably not worth splitting them out, but the details need to be carefully worded to avoid being incorrect for some places. Ben 20:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Payment options

This article states that you may sometimes choose between "debit" and "credit" in some countries. In Japan people will ask if you want to pay as "ikkaibarai" (= "pay at once"; sometimes also called "ikkatsubarai") or "kurejitto" (= "credit"; sometimes also called "shin'yō"). Is this the same thing as the credit/debit question? Japan doesn't have VISA/MasterCard/JCB debit cards (only credit cards), so that's why I'm confused.

When using my Swedish VISA debit card with any of the mentioned payment options, the shop makes a reservation on my bank account statement (making the money unavailable for me on the bank account) for a week, and then charges the money from my VISA card a few weeks later. After the reservation has disappeared, and before the card has been finally charged, the money is again available on my bank account for some time. So far, there hasn't been any difference whatsoever in the way I'm charged for the payment, regardless of which payment option I select.

I have only been asked to use my PIN code twice while in Japan, and it only worked once, although I have been able to use my PIN code a lot of times while in Sweden and Denmark. (Stefan2 13:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC))

I wrote: "Japan doesn't have VISA/MasterCard/JCB debit cards (only credit cards),"
Today I found out that the Japanese post office just has introduced what they call "Japan's first VISA debit card". So apparently there are VISA debit cards in Japan. But that doesn't change the question: the thing they ask about in the shops is related to credit cards. (Stefan2 15:15, 7 October 2006 (UTC))

[edit] History?

Would someone kindly write up the history and background of a debit card, when they were first invented and when they were first used, etc.

[edit] Netheralands section

It says:

Credit cards use in The Netherlands is very low, and most credit cards cannot be used with EFTPOS, or charge very high fees to the customer. Furthermore, debit cards can be used in the entire EU for EFTPOS, and most debit cards are Cirrus cards.

My Swedish debit card (VISA) usually isn't accepted in the Netherlands, despite it being a debit card. It seems that they do not check whether the card is a debit card or not, but instead look at the card brand, and usually only accept credit and debit cards of the Maestro brand. But someone with more knowledge on this topic needs to confirm this before anything is changed on the article page. (218.228.195.44 09:40, 27 October 2006 (UTC))

[edit] France section seems out of place

Shouldn't the long paragraph on France, currently in the introduction, be amongst the list that is organised by country?

[edit] bopo

i would like to see a section, or even a new article on Bopo -[3], an Australian prepaid VISA debit card. Jasewase 12:17, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Online/offline transactions

Can someone explain the online/offline transactions part in a better way?

I have a debit card of VISA brand, and I can make several kinds of transactions with that card:

  • Swiping my card through a card reader in a shop and entering my 4-digit PIN code;
  • Entering my card in a chip reader in a shop and entering my 4-digit PIN code;
  • Swiping my card through a card reader in a shop and, in some countries, showing proof of identification (which might result in the the merchant writing down information written on my ID card or passport), and signing a piece of paper;
  • Swiping my card through a card reader in a shop and then doing nothing else (happens mostly in vending machines, and some shops in Japan; examples are Japanese Sunkus convenient stores and Swedish SJ train ticket vending tickets for local travel around lake Mälaren);
  • Entering my card in a chip reader in a shop and doing nothing else (happens mostly in vending machines and some Japanese shops; examples are Japanese Lawson convenient stores and Swedish public payphones/car parking meters);
  • Asking the merchant to call its bank, read my card details for a bank employee, receive an identification number and then swipe the card through a card reader and enter the identification number, upon which I have to sign a paper (happens extremely rarely, and only in Japan, and only if the usual identification fails);
  • Entering card data on a website (at least my card number and expiration date, often with additional information) and having the money taken from my card.

In all of the above cases, the money is taken from my account not until earliest a few days after the purchase, but sometimes over a month later, and usually "reserved" until taken from my account or until there has been a week since the purchase. In some cases, the money might not be reserved at all, so that I don't notice the purchase until my account has been debited.

  • Typing down my card data on a paper (e.g. mail order) or making a copy of the front of the card (e.g. in a shop, now a very obsolete payment method).

In this case the money is usually taken directly from my account at a later point, often very long after the purchase, and usually not "reserved" at all, but in some cases still "reserved" for a few days before debiting my account.

In some of these cases, it would, according to the text in this article, be classified as an online payment, and in some other cases as an offline payment, although there is usually no difference in processing time and how the payment is processed (first reserved, later debitted). Is this really correct? Maybe some formulations are wrong? (212.247.11.153 21:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC))

on-line paymen:
Authorization request  from [POS] or [ATM] come up to the Auth.Center. Amount, currency, country and other are data checking according to limits (a list of limits and rules   depend on bank, processing, software limitation and so on). After passing data checking the amount blocked in Auth.Center. The decision about this amount wil be accept after recive transaction from processing network. Transaction amount subtract from a bank account.

off-line payment: 
Transaction has recieved from processing network and the transaction amount subtract from a bank account.

There are a simplified description. It do't include many nuances.

"Processing time" include interaction between Auth.Center and Bank-issuer. Interaction between card limits in an Auth.Center software and a bank software may be ranged from direct connect (via local network) to voice connect :)

In ideal case, debit card mast be debit only in "on-line" mode (VISA Electron, Maestro,..). If card debitted in off-line mode, the amount of transaction batch may be greater then a card account remainder ("technical overdraft").

For card holder there are no direct way to know method of payment (online|offline). Only by indirect indications.. As example, magnetic card PIN may be checked only in on-line mode.

[edit] Now that you merged it...

Could you explain exactly what "EFTPOS" is supposed to mean? The articel just starts using it without defining it. 68.39.174.238 21:18, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Electronic Funds Transfer at Point Of Sale. The process of paying electronically with "instant" debit of your account. ...I still say it shouldn't be merged ~~k —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.152.115.183 (talk) 00:17, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plastic payment in different countries

Does Wikipedia have an article about this subject? Payment using plastic cards (both debit and credit) vary a lot from country to country. In the US for example, I had to give the store clerk my card (Visa Electron at the time) and sign a receipt, while I in Norway just swipe it through a terminal and enter my PIN. Working as a store clerk here in Norway, I've had american customers trying to give me their cards and having to explain to them how to use the terminal. Is there a reason for this? κаллэмакс 22:06, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Embossed"?

The paragraphs on Poland and the Philippines talk about "embossed" versus "unembossed" cards. However, nowhere is explained what "embossing" means. – gpvos (talk) 16:36, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Maybe a link to Embossing is enough? (Stefan2 18:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Debit cards in Europe

According to this article, a number of sections state that most shops in some countries accept debit card payments, but block credit card payments. This doesn't seem correct: it seems that the shops will accept certain card types (usually Maestro and/or Visa Electron) but block other card types (Visa and/or MasterCard), regardless of whether the card used is a credit card or a debit card. Maybe all debit cards issued in those European countries are of Maestro and/or Visa Electron brands, but debit cards brought from other countries (including other European countries) may be of other brands. I have added a couple of {{Fact}} tags where this is mentioned on the article page, to have it sorted out if the block really is for the card type (credit or debit) or actually for the card brand (Visa, Mastercard, Visa Electron, Maestro etc.). (Stefan2 17:48, 5 June 2007 (UTC))

In New Zealand many shops, particularly smaller stores, block credit as a form of payment in favour for EFTPOS. This is because the Credit Card companies charge shops for these transactions (EFTPOS transactions are usually free for merchants here) and I believe there are restrictions on charging credit card handling fees. ~~k

[edit] "Advantages and disadvantages" section

I have added a couple of {{Fact}} tags to the "Advantages and disadvantages" section. Maybe this is something only applying to certain countries, or maybe it's just plain wrong. Details:

"Like credit cards, debit cards are accepted by merchants with less identification and scrutiny than personal checks[citation needed], thereby speeding up transactions and feeling less intrusive to the user. Unlike personal checks, merchants generally do not doubt that a payment via a debit card may be later dishonored."

In some countries, such as Sweden, you always have to show either an ID card or enter a PIN code when making a card purchase (credit or debit). I assume that the same identification level would be applied for cheques, although almost no one is using any cheques these days. It seems that the above quote only applies to certain countries.

"Unlike a credit card, which charges higher fees and interest rates when a cash advance is obtained, a debit card may be used to obtain cash from an ATM or a PIN-based transaction at no extra charge, other than a foreign ATM fee.[citation needed]"

This depends on the country. Some banks in some countries charge a fee per withdrawal only when using the card in a different country ("foreign ATM fee"), but not when using the card in a cash dispenser belonging to a different bank in the same country ("domestic ATM fee"). This seems to be the case with all banks in Sweden and the UK. Some banks in some countries charge a fee per withdrawal not only when using the card in a different country ("foreign ATM fee"), but also when using the card in a cash dispenser belonging to a different bank in the same country ("domestic ATM fee"). This seems to be the case with all banks in Denmark and Japan. Furthermore, not all banks apply an interest rate for cash withdrawals using a credit card. Banks in Japan typically apply an interest rate to the withdrawn amount, but banks in Sweden typically apply a fixed fee (often partially consisting of a percentage of the amount withdrawn) instead of an interest rate. An interest rate will only be applied if the card holder decides not to pay for the credit card expenses immediately, but then the interest will be the same as for usual card purchases.

"Debit cards offer lower levels of security protection than credit cards[citation needed]. When used for a PIN-based transaction, theft of the PIN can be accomplished a lot easier than a signature-based credit transaction using skimming devices."

At least in most European countries, credit and debit cards are subject to the same security measures, regardless of card type (credit/debit). PIN codes may be used for both types of cards, and signature may be used for both types of cards. Maybe the text applies to some other countries, though.

"The consumer also has a much shorter time (usually just two days) to report such fraud to the bank in order to be eligible for such a waiver with a debit card[citation needed], whereas with a credit card, this time may be up to 60 days."

My Swedish bank allows me to report any fraudulent charges to the bank within a month after they have sent out a quarterly statement mentioning the fraudulent debit card purchases. Maybe applies to debit cards in other countries, though?

"For certain types of purchases, such as gasoline, lodging, or car rental, the bank may place a hold on funds much greater than the actual purchase for a fixed period of time[citation needed]."

Not true in Europe at least...

"While debit cards bearing the logo of a major credit card are accepted for virtually all transactions where an equivalent credit card is taken, a major exception is at car rental facilities[citation needed]."

Not true in Europe, where debit cards are accepted. Maybe true in other parts of the world? (Stefan2 18:22, 5 June 2007 (UTC))

"For certain types of purchases, such as gasoline, lodging, or car rental, the bank may place a hold on funds much greater than the actual purchase for a fixed period of time[citation needed]."
Mostly true in New Zealand. This is because you must pay before you take an undefined amount of petrol. In NZ the user never sees that the petrol station gets approval to transfer a large amount ($150) because only the actual amount (say $66) is debited. Not sure on the technical aspects of how it works.~~k

In some shops in some countries, my card (VISA) seems to be blocked for all kinds of transactions, while Visa Electron is accepted for any transaction. So at least in some countries, they base this on card type rather than transaction type. I guess various sections need to be carefully checked to tell whether the block is for card type or transaction type. (Stefan2 18:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC))

This problem stems from the fact that the article was originally USA-centric and, most likely, written from the experiences of one or two users rather than researched. It really needs to be rewritten. I wish I had the time. 193.95.165.190 09:46, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Online/offline vs. debit/credit

In this article it is stated that an online transaction is the same as a debit transaction, whilst an offline transaction is the same as a credit transaction. This seems to be wrong: at least with VISA, it seems that both credit and debit transactions can be done both online and offline. RyanAir (Irish aviation company) offers offline debit transactions, while various Japanese shops (such as Lawson) offer online credit transactions. (Stefan2 16:18, 22 August 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Messed up

This article has got completely messed up with too many "oh I want to add my country" examples and repetition of content, as well as opinions and uncited sections. It may need to be drastically trimmed or rewritten. 193.95.165.190 14:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps, creating new articles pertaining to each country, particularly larger ones, with a "main article" tag to direct to them, would be a good start. Hellno2 21:08, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] ISO 7810

"Physically the card is an ISO 7810 card like a credit card" -- This strikes me as being something that is incidentally the case, rather than part of the definition of "debit card", and as such doesn't warrant being in the Introduction. (If Country X wanted to decree "In our country, debit cards will be 10 cm by 15 cm", they'd still be perfectly valid as debit cards, even if a weird nonstandard size.) We should move the datum about "ISO 7810" lower in the article. -- 201.37.229.117 (talk) 20:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

The section about the size is not true for all current debit cards. At least in Sweden, some banks issue special cards for online use only. In these cases, no physical card is issued at all (why issue a physical card when all card purchases will be conducted by typing in the card number & other information on an Internet site?). In particular, there is no ISO 7810 card. [4][5] (212.247.11.156 (talk) 23:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC))

[edit] Debit Card Accounts as Money

Does anyone know whether Debit Card Accounts are considered as Checkable Accounts for purposes of calculating the money supply (M1 or M2) in the U. S.? That would be useful information for this article since Demand Accounts and Other Checkable Accounts make up about half of M1. Mhw089 (talk) 04:22, 14 April 2008 (UTC)