Talk:Deaths in 2006/archive3

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Shamil Basayev

Why was the cause of death for Shamil Basayev removed? It is known that he died in an explotion. I will be adding it back. User:Dissident.Deramin 16:20, 12 July, 2006 (UTC)

Reference Quality

Being that this is the English language Wikipedia, shouldnt the references be in English as well to establish some notability? Certainly this is a world wide view endeavor but whats the point of listing it if no one who reads this site has heard of the person? 206.11.112.251 18:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

  1. No, non-English quotes should suffice to prove notability.
  2. If he/she/it is indeed notable, there will be certainly more than one reader that have heard of him/her/it.

User:Ejrrjs says What? 19:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

How can this [1] be a reference for a person with no article? Were just supposed to take your word for it? FancyPants 22:48, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

My word for what? I don't know what are you talking about. User:Ejrrjs says What? 07:17, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
[2] Read this link and tell me who died? There is no accountability for non-English references on English Wikipedia. FancyPants 13:42, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Quoting myself: If he/she/it is indeed notable, there will be certainly more than one reader that have heard of him/her/it. It doesn't mean it's me. I can help you a little with Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician, French or Catalan, though. User:Ejrrjs says What? 17:26, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
To ellaborate a little bit: Fermín Chávez, an Argentine historian (whose ideas I dislike, BTW), died on May 28. So I added the notice here, along with 4 obituaries from Argentine newspapers (Spanish only; the Buenos Aires Herald didn't carry the news). Afterwards, someone else completed his entry, so you can check he was notable enough, assuming that the sources (in Spanish) are right. What do you propose, to skip that info in the English language (no the "English-speaking world") wikipedia? Either we like it or not it, English has become the de facto world language and I'm sure that there are some W. collaborators proficient in every major language to check the accuracy of those references, and yours.

Saludos, User:Ejrrjs says What? 17:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Spencer

Frank Spencer is listed twice right now, on different days. Investigate plz :) Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 18:18, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Both linked articles say he died on Friday. I've removed the Thursday listing. Gamaliel 18:28, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Ron White

Someone listed Ron White (the comedian) under June 9th deaths. I searched the internet and found nothing to support it so it was deleted.--Jennie Ambrose 02:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Non humans

I see Harriet the tortoise is listed here. Are non humans allowed to be listed?

I added Harriet (rather poorly formatted as I was in a rush I admit!) because as far as I can tell, it's a very significant death indeed, and the title is 'Deaths in 2006', with no reference to 'Human Death'. As a rule I would exclude the vast majority of animals from the list, but in the case of the oldest creature in the world, I think an exception should be made.Alspittle 17:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I deleted Harriet.
There have been discussions about including animals here before, as far as I know they have all been excluded from this page. I'll try if I can find some of the discussions in the archives.
Include her in the news page instead.
Lukas 21:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok. I checked and found two prior mentions of animal deaths on the talk page:
of the Thames Whale[[3]](January 06) and of Humphrey the Cat [[4]] (March 06).
Although, there was no real discussion (just maybe one or two persons questioning if the animal should be mentioned on the page), I couldn't find them anymore on the actual Deaths page.
I don't think Harriet should be included until a consensus is reached.
Lukas 21:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Practice for years has been that we do list significant non-human deaths, e.g. Timothy (6 April 2004), Peipei, worlds' oldest panda (13 August 2004), Keiko (12 December 2003), etc. -- Arwel (talk) 14:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd keep Harriet. Wasn't there another really old tortoise listed hear a few weeks back? Wencer 17:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. I put her back in, for now at least. It says a list of notable deaths; it doesn't specify human. Nationalparks 17:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Whoa, I thought I'd commented. Must not have saved it. I see no reason not to include notable nonhuman deaths. There are probably four main categories of notable animals: old animals (such as Harriet), animals of sociological interest (Koko (gorilla)), animal athletes (Secretariat (horse)), and animal actors (Moose (dog actor)). 19:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

What a coincidence! Moose (dog actor)'s death was just announced. Wencer 01:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Bah. I swear I didn't know at the time. Not sure what made me think of him. Probably mainly that I knew his real name. Powers 12:29, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Keep Harriet. No reading of any rule or guideline could consider the passing of the world's oldest living creature unworthy of inclusion. Also agree as per the four users above me with the inclusion of other notable animals W guice 13:39, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok. Keep. Would it be a good idea then, to put up some clear(er) guidelines who/what to include on the Death page? I haven't seen any mention of animals in any guidelines, so it seems ambiguous. If we could put what Arwel and LtPowers(comment on 19:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)) said into a guideline, it might help against future confusion. Cheers.Lukas 04:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed Moose from today's deaths as he actually died several days ago and has been documented on that day. I believe that notable animals should be on the list, especially if they are ones, as mentioned above, that would be well-known to the average person. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.137.75.188 (talk • contribs) .

Hashimoto

Reuters reports that Hashimoto died on Saturday, July 1 (not Friday, June 30). Does someone have a reliable source indicating otherwise? Leeannedy 06:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

  • CNN is reporting it as the first which means we need to create a new month see [5]

Looking at the attribution, the original source is Reuters. Capitalistroadster 07:12, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Prince Tu'ipelehake

Why was Tu'ipelehake moved to today? He actually died yesterday, and I heard about it before the sun went down in US central time zone on the 6th. I believe that he should be moved back to the 6th, and his Wiki entry should also be changed to reflect that.

Luis Barragan

Is he notible enough? For that matter, are people who don't already have an article notible enough unless their death is due to tragic/public circumstances? I don't see the point of mentioning the death of someone unless we can find out a little more about them. Squiggyfm 07:33, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Yes, there are plenty of people who we don't have articles who meet our notability criteria. The reason I added Barragan was that both the Boston Globe and New York Times reported his death and the Associated Press wrote a wire story on him. While he may be borderline notability, I believe that there is a reasonable case for an artoicle. Capitalistroadster 07:50, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Further to the above, this New York Daily News article states that Barragan turned 1-800 Mattress into one of the US's biggest Hispanic owned businesses and the biggest bed retailer in the US. [6]
  • Fair enough. Squiggyfm 17:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Hu Jingxuan

Whilst her life may not warrant a wikipedia page (although a page for both children may be appropriate), I do feel her death is notable enough to be listed here as the case is gaining worldwide attention. We have listed conjoined twins before and many of them have articles. What is the opinion of other contributors? Zerbey 13:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

(http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4036838.html)

While the story of the Hu Jingxuan is of course newsworthy, how can an 11 month old baby be notable? The articles about other conjoined twins are I believe about older twins who went on to accomplish things or made a career out of their physical appearance.--RMHED 19:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Syd Barrett - cancer or diabetes?

The entry here (July 7 2006) names "complications of diabetes" as the cause of death. The linked article [7] says cancer. Which is it? --Theodore Kloba 20:35, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

David Robinson

Notibility?

  • The article mentions Robinson only in passing and it has not been a high profile crime in the Australian media so far. Capitalistroadster 02:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Death archives

Deaths in 2005 is pretty plain and ugly.... should we do the "highlights" of the higest profile... say around 5 for each month? It would fill out the page a little and make it more than just internal links. gren グレン 00:54, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Peter Hawkins

I read an obit for Peter Hawkins that did not mention he died on July 8. After I verifed his date of death I erased the entry.--Dubboy 03:35, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Paul Luzzo

I have removed his name from today's list. There was no source provided to either confirm death or establish notability. Capitalistroadster 17:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Notability

I just deleted about 5 people who lived good lives and accomplished much, but they don't meet the criteria for encyclopedia entries. All the sourced obits were in local papers, except for one in the New York Times, and even he was more of a local figure than someone worthy of an encyclopedia article. Seems to me this necrology should have some accepted standards. Bruxism 14:32, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, though we apparently differ on what the standards are. Personally I feel a NY Times obit indicates a sufficient level of notability for anyone. And I've also restore another of your deletions, Creel. Though the obit is for a local paper, he was an Assistant Secretary in a US cabinet level department and author of a column syndicated to over 400 papers, either one of which would be notable enough for inclusion. Gamaliel 18:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
I see your point. I don't agree that those folks are notable enough (to my mind they fail the 'stub' test in the notability criteria - i.e. would an entry about them ever amount to more than a stub?) - but I do see where you are coming from. I know what you mean about the Times - for me that's a lifelong ambition. Or at least it was before Wikipedia. Now I'd rather have a Wikipedia entry about me someday. We can agree to disagree, but if you feel strongly enough to put someone back, I won't try to stop you. Bruxism 04:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't know why there are these pompous top-down 'notability' policies. Stupid and fascist. The net is the place where all are welcome - notability should emerge as be the outcome of a consensus. That said, is this a list for anyone who dies anywhere in the world even when they have no entry and no obituary in the English Language? RuthieK 13:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
No, it's a list for people who are considered notable. That's why we have stupid fascist policies – so we don't end up listing Every Dead Person In The World, which would admittedly be more democratic but, i think you'll agree, about 500 times stupider. The presence of an obituary in a reputable source is pretty much the kicker. it's not rocket science --W guice 10:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
If inclusion in the list is based on Wikipedia's notability guidelines, then why should a person such as a gunman in a school shooting not be included? Surely, such a person meets the criteria of "persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events". --swamilive 17:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps red links should be taken out at the end of the month. If people are not notable enough that someone has written an article on them, then perhaps they aren't notable. RuthieK 23:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Alternatively, maybe their lack of an article is an important oversight that no-one has addressed yet and instead of taking the redlinks out it would be better to create stub articles for them (this was the consensus when this has come up before) --W guice 10:41, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree (and I've deleted more than my share of non-notables). Sometimes a redlink is a result of an oversight and, lamentably, the person's death calls this to our attention. In the U.S., there are plenty of Pulitzer Prize winners, National Heritage Fellowship winners, National Medal of Science awardees, and MacArthur Fellowship winners who don't have entries yet. There are also very significant leaders of smaller nations, including First Nations, who haven't had an entry yet, either. Bruxism 01:47, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Michael Anderson

I removed him as there is no proof of death, he should really stay off until someone can provide a citation--RMHED 22:19, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Ruth Schonthal

Mentioned twice in the list - on July 10-th and 11-th. Do something.--80.240.215.40 09:42, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Taken care of. Nice catch eagle eye! Squiggyfm 10:42, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
The problem here is that different news articles are reporting different dates. Gamaliel 17:37, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


Death Notices

Should listed death notices in here be limited to just people who have their own wikipedia pages? The list is just getting too crowded, as well as the "Recent Deaths" column in the main current events page. Maybe the definition of notability needs to be looked at? I may be repeating the opinion of Bruxism, but in the last couple of months it has gotten out of hand. Joenad 02:27, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

  • I will repeat myself. There are a large group of people who meet our notability guidelines who don't currently have an article. This is a good opportunity to develop articles on them. Capitalistroadster 02:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Sorry to be harsh, but does Johnny Weissmuller Jr. meet the notability criteria? Even by his own website's admission [8], he was in small parts in a half a dozen films (e.g. "Badass #1" in American Graffiti), and worked mostly as a longshoreman. Bruxism 03:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I'd have to say he doesn't seem notable enough for mine unless one of these roles in the films listed on IMDb is more notable than it seems. Capitalistroadster 06:33, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Harry Olivieri

Harry Olivieri is listed twice, on both July 20th and July 21st. fuzzybunny566

Simonetta Stefanelli

Removed until cited. Here is the text until then:

(death is also listed on bio stub) -Zeno Izen 16:11, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything in a search today (of both English and Italian media). ... discospinster talk 20:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Acute Myeloid Leukemia

Should the coincidence between Arthur Lee and Susan both dying from acute myeloid leukemia-related causes be noted?

Susan who? What? W guice 11:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
edit> you mean Susan Butcher, apparently. no, i don't think so. it's not much of a coincidence that two people of some notability died of similar causes within a few days of each other. W guice 14:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Axl

I heard that Axl Rose died, which now is apparently untrue, sorry for the edit. In all seriousness, GN'R is one of my favorite bands and I would never intentionally write slander against any of its members current or past. I had simply heard from three friends that the illness he was suffering, that caused a doctor to order him not to play last night, had killed him, i became saddened, and decided that he should get the respect he deserved and be listed as a recent death. I apologize for the false edition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.140.158.95 (talk • contribs)

Fred (cat)

So, I added Fred, a tabby cat who was the subject of numerous non-local news articles, who received awards, and whose death was reported on again by non-local news sources, but it was removed as nonnotable. Any objections to me adding it back in? Here's a link: [9]. Powers T 18:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Heather Clarke

Somebody deleted or removed Heather Clarke's death (August 13, 2006) from the monthly index log of deaths.

Why??

Abaloney 19:52, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

her non-notability independent of her husband's fame, i suppose. W guice 15:42, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I am new to this process and to these pages. When looking through the deaths of prominent people in 2006, I was amazed and disappointed at the lack of women listed. Although I don't fully understand wikipedia and how it works, in fact the whole wiki concept is new to me, I really hope that it can avoid being yet another situation that is dominated by white men. The other thing is that when women are listed they are listed as the sister or wife of someone but when men are listed they are not listed as a brother or husband of someone. Shouldn't all people be listed just as who they are for their own achievements or lack of them and not for the achievements of others? I hope this is not too confrontational for some of the people who might read this. I am just hoping to keep a good idea going in a way that is good for everyone and not just good for the usual suspects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thinkingwoman (talk • contribs)

We are dependent upon the news media for our listings (NY Times, Associated Press, etc.) and thus are limited to listing those whom they report upon. If you are aware of some media outlet which does a better job of reporting on the passing of notable women, please bring it to our attention and we will use it for a source for this page. Gamaliel 21:08, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Much as we'd like to be able to control the deaths of prominent people (of either gender), at this stage we can only report them --W guice 10:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't think it's confrontational at all. In the wiki spirit, if you see a woman defined that way and not by her own achievements, you are encouraged to change the listing to one that is more appropriate. That's what will make this project better. Bruxism 01:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

George Johnson

This has been listed here since I got up this morning and there's still no citation or other web evidence. If no one can find one by the time I go to bed, I'm taking it down and restoring his status to "alive." Wencer 00:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Sleep peacefully tonight Wencer; the riddle is solved Duf 05:36, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Where to add entries?

People seem to be adding reports of September 2006 under the main Deaths in 2006 page, but Deaths in September 2006 seems to be a corrupted, older version. How do we keep these two synchronized? Since Deaths in September 2006 is linked from the main Current Events portal, this needs to be fixed immediately. However, I'm not so familiar with how these pages should be organized, so would someone else take a look at this please? AndrewAllen 16:21, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Thank you for pointing this out. Deaths in September 2006 is supposed to redirect to Deaths in 2006 until the month is up, when the data is shifted from the main page to make way for October. i'll action it now --W guice 10:28, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Charlie Williams age.

The subjects date of birth is given in the article. What is the point of indicating a discrepancy for two of the sources reporting the death?LessHeard vanU 19:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Source language

i know it's been said many times before, but can we please start getting more Eng-lang sources on stuff? for someone who doesn't speak German, Italian, Norwegian or Hungarian this month's listings are already becoming a head-scratching prospect. --W guice 10:34, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I would say to you, W guice, that it entirely depends on whether there is an English Language source for the article / report available. Not last month, but back in July, I had to confirm the death of a Greek orthodox archbishop, and the only source to confirm his death anywhere on the net was the Cretian state TV service, naturally all in Greek. If we don't post an Eng. Language source, please consider the fact that it may be exceedingly difficult to find one... Thor Malmjursson 12:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
i understand that, i was more referring to the increasing amount of recent cases providing non-English reference points when there are, say, BBC website articles available. i think i'm on safe ground to say that's fairly pointless on the English Wikipedia. ~ W guice 01:36, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Someone added the "citation needed" tag to Leo Navratil. If you click on it, it says that you shouldn't quote Wkipedia articles. What I eventually found, and added, was the obituary published by the Austrian state television, ORF (broadcaster). Naturally, this again is in a foreign language; this time, not surprisingly, in German. The really amazing thing is that at the end of their text they add a reference to the article on Navratil on the German Wikipedia. <KF> 21:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Michael White

I took out the suggestion that he was British - his obituary clearly says he was born in maryland. On reflection, this seems like a pretty local reference and he doesn't meet inclusion criteria. -- LP

Artie Lange

This is unconfirmed, history has it as removed, does not appear on the editable version. Possible vandalism? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Billb (talk • contribs) .

more like obvious vandalism. but since it's removed, what's the problem? -W guice 12:49, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

References

I was trying to add all the references, until someone removed them. What's the consensus on this, folks? References or inline links? --Thelb4 06:27, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Strongly support inline as current. -W guice 20:54, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Why? --Thelb4 16:52, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
1. It looks better. 2. It's easier to understand for a greater amount of people. 3. The page is extremely fast-moving and refs would be much harder to do logistics on. 4. Something about not fixing what isn't broken -W guice 10:01, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Note:Perhaps we should start doing this with all the October entries, and we can work on Deaths in September 2006 at the same time. --Thelb4 06:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Person/Animal

The Deaths page begins with this line, "Please place names under the date the person/animal died." I think this removes some of the dignity that should characterize this page. Is there a better way to put it, i.e., "Please place names under the date of death". User:ZColeSmith —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.37.65 (talk • contribs)

I've changed it. Gamaliel 16:34, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Jeff Getty

Jeff Getty died on the 9th and 16th? Which is right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 164.67.59.81 (talk • contribs) .

Oberia Coffin

Surely she should be referred to as American woman as oppose to Texas (which should be Texan anyway). Jimmmmmmmmm 14:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)