Talk:Death In June

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 Death In June was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: December 5, 2007
Death In June was a good article, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Delisted version: February 22, 2007
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Contents

[edit] Vandalism

I have removed a portion of the article that was applied by an anonymous poster. Pearce has blatantly stated he has is not a fascist on several occasions, has been removed from all 'fascist registries' (which are rarely terribly accurate in the first place) and has become increasingly vocal about this particular matter. However, he has also made it clear he is no lapdog and will not yelp when commanded by Antifa. Please see the Interview Archive linked at the bottom of the page for multiple interviews addressing this particular subject. --Bloodofox 01:52, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Please provide references for Pearce's "reversal".
You can find them yourself at the Death In June Interview Archive with very little effort: [1] :bloodofox: 05:54, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Does use of nazi aesthetics = fascism. Not sure. Unlike Boyd Rice, Mr P has never exhibited much of a sense of humour so it's not just a plot to shock us. I suspect its all part of his own private mythology.

I would say Pearce's humor has been considerably more "black" than that of Rice and the tone has been more serious throughout most of his discography. However, Pearce himself has no shortage of humor, as demonstrated in his correspondance and interviews. The whole "fascist or not?" debate seems to miss the point to me. Political pegging is the wrong way to approach this sort of art. A better question is: Why is there the constant attempt to peg when there is this level of ambiguity and existing evidence and statements to the contrary? Is there even any "ambiguity" towards sympathy at all or does the usage of said aesthetics simply immediately make people start pointing fingers in post-WWII society? :bloodofox: 03:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA status

4-5+ footnotes are recommended, as is a paragraph or two for a lead section. Deckiller 01:23, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I have added a few lead paragraphs as recommended. I'm unsure as to how much the foot notes would help, most of the references are found on the internet with a click, which I've attempted to include. :bloodofox: 05:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured Music Project evaluation

Death In June has been evaluated according to the Featured Music Project criteria, most recently affirmed as of this revision. The article's most important issues are listed below. Since this evaluation, the article may have been improved.

The following areas need work to meet the criteria: Sales - Pictures - Audio - References - Format/Style
The space below is for limited discussion on this article's prospects as a featured article candidate. Please take conversations to the article talk page.
  • Sales: Doesn't mention sales; if that is irrelevant, then consider adding concert sizes, tours or something else to establish extent of popularity
  • Pictures: Need fair use rationales
  • Audio: Need sound samples
  • References: Needs more refs, esp. print scholarly non-bio book, inline citations
  • Format/Style: Combine small paragraphs and sections, trim external links, general copyedit
  • Lead could be longer
  • Assuming discography is exhaustive, it's fine, but consider whether table is necessary

[edit] Links

Why keep the link to the "Harvey D. Thornburg"? It's a page of two-sentence impressions, and only concerning the select albums he'd happened upon! It's unsubstantial and pointless. If you feel other people's opinions are that valuable, you might at least link to a semi-professional review site like Allmusic. Unlike Mr. Thornburg, they've actually heard the Wall of Sacrifice LP..

Rfd

That's a good enough reason for me. Removed. :bloodofox: 04:21, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sexuality

Is it really necessary to describe him as a gay English folk musician, I'm not discounting the factual accuracy of this description, it just seems to me, to be making a massive point. Further reading of the article covers this anyway. :A.Grace: 12 April 2006

I agree and I've since edited the article to reflect that. :bloodofox: 18:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal of New Discographic Structure

LP/EPs: Those titles in which the majority of the material was contemporaneous to their release,

Compilations: Those which consist of previously released material, regardless of 'interpretation', and live recordings.

The titles now listed under 'Compilations', of which DI6 contributed soley a pre-released track, should be disincluded IMO, as they are not nearly as relevant and outside the scope of a general article. The newly proposed structure seems more suitable for potential readers who desire to distinguish between the *actual* material (in their chronological context) and the surplus of re-organized packages.

I am willing to make these changes. Renfield 16:51, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Awkward first P?

"both members" would seem to mean there were only two. "sole work" and "various collaborators" seemed at odds. I also combined the mostly redundant second and third sentences. johndburger 04:40, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FREE TIBET

I added FREE TIBET to "Secondary Releases." http://www.deathinjune.net/disco/dij-freetibet.htm

[edit] GA Re-Review and In-line citations

Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 02:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good article Review of GA status

This article is being reviewed at WP:GA/R for possible delisting of its Good article status. Teemu08 21:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Concerns of inline citations wasn't fixed, removed Jaranda wat's sup 04:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

just a little recommendation dude, i've worked on tons of discographies and all the compilation and single articles look like shit. can't do anything about it, i'm working on about 5 other discographies, most are bigger than this one. --AlexOvShaolin 02:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I am working to get the inline citations together as I have time. If anyone wants to do so ahead of me, please do. :bloodofox: 08:16, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
It is now done. :bloodofox: 15:30, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Two things...

1) Does anyone else think that the feud between Douglas P. and David Tibet is worth mentioning? Considering the amount of collaboration David has done with Death In June, it's somewhat significant, specially with the "Free Tibet" MP3 release.

2) http://community.livejournal.com/heilige_tod/46779.html The Yahoo! Group message where Douglas P. physically posted this is here: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/deathinjune/message/31029, but you must be a member. However, the new album should be at least briefly mentioned.

- 75.19.62.38 08:20, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

If this passes a GAR it will be unusual. The references are limited to only two or three internet sites. One reference no longer works, and one is in French (it could be about anything). Those in-line citations are sorely needed. --andreasegde 16:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

The references are mainly interviews which are collected on to a single site as the other zines often go down. I am not sure why that is a problem. Aren't all of the references properly cited? :bloodofox: 21:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
It's about NPOV. I know it's difficult finding various references, but relying on one or two sites seems to be limited. Are there any newspaper/magazine articles that you could reference? --andreasegde 19:42, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
They are all from different articles and publications, they're just all archived on the official website. :bloodofox: (talk) 08:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Failed Good Article nomination

I’m sorry, but I’ve had to fail this GA nomination. The main reason is that the article is very poorly referenced - entire sections have no sources, so it’s very difficult to verify the information within it. Below are some prose related issues with the article aswell, but the main issue is the distinct lack of sourcing. The existing references are also poorly formatted, and should be converted to {{cite web}} or similar. As it’s unlikely the majority of the article can be referenced in one week, I’ve decided to fail the article. Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 01:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

  • The source information isn't necessary in the infobox image caption - that should only be on the image description page.
  • The article starts in a strange manner - I had to read the lead a few times before I had convinced myself the article was about a band. "Death In June is the musical brainchild..." really doesn't read well. Just start with something conventional like "Death in June is a band, established by..."
  • Standalone years, such as 1981 and 1985, shouldn't be wikilinked. This applies throughout the article, but I'll try not to mention it too many times :) If you have a specific date (eg. 1 December), then the year SHOULD be wikilinked.
  • The L2 section "Early Death In June (1981-1985)" doesn't need any of the L3 subsections. The headers should be removed, and it can be merged into a few bigger paragraphs.
  • The Early Death in June section has a grand total of 0 inline citations.
  • "first show in November, 25 1981 in London, England" - Wikilink 25 November 1981
  • "The May 28th show" --> "The 28 May show"
  • As with the previous L2 section, the subsections in "Mid-period Death In June (1985-1996)" really aren't necessary. A good band FA with a year based layout is Powderfinger, and it doesn't have subsections.
  • "...helped form World Serpent Distribution[1]; a British..." - Ref should be after the punctuation.
  • ”Collaboration with David Tibet” - subsection shouldn’t exist (just merge into the main L2 section), and standalone years within it (eg. 1982) shouldn’t be wikilinked. The three paragraphs also need sourcing.
  • ”Pearce also contributed to Current 93 projects, including the definitive apocalyptic folk LP, Swastikas for Noddy, Earth Covers Earth and 1888 releases from (1988) and Thunder Perfect Mind (1992) as well as playing live on many occasions from 1986-93 with Tibet's group. Pearce has stated that after he stopped contributing to Current 93, Tibet replaced his acoustic guitar works with that of Michael Cashmore.” - This paragraph is about Pearce, rather than Death in June, so it really isn’t relevant in this article (it should be in Pearce’s article).
  • The L2 “Contemporary Death In June (1996-present)” section doesn’t need the L3 subsections, again.
  • ”Pearce has sometimes guested on Der Blutharsch records since then” - Guested...what does that mean?
  • ”World Serpent Distribution. [4] This led” - There shouldn’t be a space between the full stop (.) and the ref.
  • ”Name origins” - Has there been any further discussion of the name? What do critics think about it? Are there any sources to confirm what’s said in this section?
  • The “Neofolk music” section is a grand total of 2 sentences, which would fit in just as well in the lead. Not necessary as a section.
  • ”Death In June live.” (influences section image caption) - A more descriptive caption would be nice
  • ”Influences” section really needs sourcing and confirmation of these apparant “influences”.
  • Last paragraph of Masks section could be expanded - what’s special about the mask, why did he get it, what do critics think about it? Oh, and a source.
  • ”As with the Totenkopf-6, the 6 presumably refers to June.” - In the above section, Pearce confirms what the 6 refers to, so it’s not “presumably”...
  • ”Germanic paganism has been more and more a common theme for Death In June” - “more and more” is really informal. Change to something like “German paganism has been an increasingly common theme for Death In June”
  • ”Pearce, who is openly homosexual, has also collaborated with various ethnic Jews throughout his discography, the official Death In June site sported an Israeli flag and Death In June played live in Israel on 18 June, 2004 for a predominantly Jewish audience.” - This paragraph should be split into 2 or 3 sentences, and needs at least 2 sources. Date should also be wikilnked (18 June 2004)
  • Ref 14 should be placed at the end of a sentence. Same with 15.
  • The quote that ends with ref 16 is way too long, and thus there are potential copyright issues. Damn interesting, but you really should discuss it in your own words rather than copy pasting that huge chunk of text :(
  • ”On December 21st, 2005 the Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien illegalized all sales and distribution of Rose Clouds Of Holocaust to minors, which had been available to everyone in the country since 1995.” - Ref?
  • ”to the German government. [17] Pearce provided” - Shouldn’t be a space between the ref and full stop (.).
  • There’s a link to Kameradschaft (album) in the singles section of the discography. Sounds odd...

Reviewed version: [2]

Once the major issues of referencing, as well as the stuff above, is dealt with, I’d be happy to review the article again, if you wish. You could also relist at GAC, or request a reassessment. Cheers, Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 01:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the time you've taken to look this over and recommend those specific changes. I agree and I will work to incorporate them to improve the article. :bloodofox: (talk) 02:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Friends-01.jpg

Image:Friends-01.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)