Talk:Death (band)

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[edit] Spiritual Healing page rename?

I notice if you do a search for "spiritual healing" you're redirected to "Faith Healing". However, "Spiritual Healing" gets you to the album page. Would it make sense to rename the page as "Spiritual Healing (album)" or somehow alter the redirect page to a disambiguation one? These comments also added to the album discussion page. IainP (talk) 23:31, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

After a quick ask on the Help pages, I've instead added a note to the top of the "Faith healing" page. IainP (talk) 15:55, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Death EP

Citation or some proof of true existence needed. Otherwise, article should be deleted for irrelevance and no proof of existence. --Ryouga 01:58, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

never heard of it. Isn't mentioned in the liner notes of the death re-releases and Google shows no results. And it sounds terrible much like a joke to me. Delete it if you wish Spearhead 09:46, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll wait for a little while and see if anyone knows something (they can post here or on my talk). If we get nothing, we'll dismiss it as non existent garbage, and then delete it. --Ryouga 20:28, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I have never heard of such an EP released by Death. I have recently done some research and have even gone to the releases section of the Empty Words website: Releases. I have searched the list of releases and have found no proof of the Death EP. Therefore, I believe it is safe to say that this EP is non-existent, and must be removed. --Insineratehymn


[edit] John Hand

I found it interesting that, out of the blue, someone from the "Bay Area" (according to their IP address) edited the Death (band) page to re-write history re: John Hand. Suddenly Hand's contribution went from merely appearing in the Scream Bloody Gore album photos to 'co-writing 20 songs with Chuck and Chris'.

This flies in the face of every, single band biography available on the net. Every fan (or student of death metal) knows that John Hand did not record or play a single gig with Death. This is not meant as a slam against Hand, but simply the correct telling of history. Chuck often said that Hand got a 'great deal' out of his association with Death: namely, from being in the band 'two weeks' his face and name are forever associated with one of the pioneer death metal releases. The fact remains that Chuck played all guitar parts on that first Death album, and hence received the royalties and payments in perpetuity for that release.

I certainly wonder who it was from the San Francisco area that thought it quaint to sneak in and change what really happened after all these years...I'm not insinuating that it was John Hand himself, but if it was he could have the decency to come forth (finally) to dispute head-on what is accepted as the story of the band instead of (possibly) taking this back door approach...It would mean Hand challenging for the first time Chuck's contract with Combat in hopes of battling out royalties due - and that is a ridiculous notion because Hand was never due a single penny.


I don't know if this matters anymore because I have no clue when this was posted, but I went back and did some research about the "John Hand" situation. And discovered that Hand only contributed to the Scream Bloody Gore album photos. So the user above was right. I believe though that they should sight some resources so that if there is any question to whether the article is relevant or not, other people will be able to check and see for themselves.
Catherine Slaughter
XxNo.One.RunsxX 14:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spiritual Healing

Isn't this where Death started being technical?


[edit] Painkiller

Did Chuck use additional effects to change his voice on that Judas Priest cover song ? I Mean, some parts aren't "growled", so you can hear harmonics in the voice at some moments, but did he use computer effects of something like that to sound more acute, or could he really sing like that ?

From what I'm aware of he could sing like that. He was originally going to be the vocalist for Control Denied but he wanted to focus more on guitar so he got another vocalist.

Actually, originally he wanted Ronnie James Dio, he never wanted to do vocals for Control Denied.

[edit] Consider Changing genre from Progressive Metal to Technical Death Metal &/or Melodic Death Metal

Death (band) - History

"22:25, 23 April 2007 Sn0wflake (Talk | contribs) m (16,376 bytes) (Let's settle for not using such arbitrary definitions. Death's style is quite complex, and has mostly used elements from both genres throughout their career.)"

---> Using "Progressive Metal" definition for this band is arbitrary aswell, that's the denomination you'll get after listening a couple(or more) prog-metal bands, not before that, and without that, you wouldn't even think to relate DEATH in any way with the term "progressive"; DEATH doesn't have a single one, clear prog rock influence (as a progrocker I can't find any in their music, and the album that is called the most "proggie" from them is very far from "prog" music). Most of prog-metal bands have a clear or very recognizable prog rock influence on their music, still, some prog-heads don't accept those bands that much as truly progressive, but that's most of times a fact of narrow-mind. Complex, melodic, doesn't make one band progressive, the term "technical" will fit better than "progressive" in many metal bands like this, and will clear the doubt for new people in the prog genre, and of course this will help to improve wikipedia, taking out the fan's or non-neutral oppinion from the articles of this online encyclopedia, thanks. –Progrocker7 02:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

You should read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_metal#Technical_death_metal. And then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_metal#Progressive_death_metal.

While I dont think Death were ever death metal and progressive at the same time, i disagree with them being called "progressive death metal" (see the talk page for chuck schuldiner). Death's early works were also very thrashy (deathrash), but theyre definitely death. However, when Chuck took the band in the progressive direction, they became less death metal (and they were never as heavy as the death metal bands coming out at that time). Prog metal isn't supposed to sound like prog rock...metal isn't supposed to sound like rock. Keep that in mind. Two different genres. As you're a "progrocker" yourself, I understand youre perhaps not going to understand. Deaths music wasnt nearly as technical as techdeath bands, but it definitely was progressive. See: talk page for chuck. Isilioth 02:44, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

You don't know much about Death metal do you? Progressive death metal, and technical death metal are the same thing. You even go as far as to say Death was not Death metal because they weren't as heavy as the other bands? Death was a pioneer in death metal, enough so that Chucks considered the father of death metal. XXMurderSoulXx (talk) 19:26, 22 December 2007 (UTC)


Hehe, thanks for answering, but I'm sorry, I don't need to read those, because I know all of that very much and of course have a well-formed discernment about music, indeed, I do respect Death's music and some metal music, and of course prog-metal bands who are really progressive basing their sound in metal obviously, but they are influenced by at least 1 or more recognizable prog rock bands, no doubt about that, and being really accurate that's the only way to be truly prog-metal and not just technical metal disguised of "prog", and by they way I never said metal is supposed to sound like rock, metal is metal. And how trustable is for you wikipedia in this kind of things?, I think many of the bands information here were done by fans, not experts in the genre, that's what makes it unbalanced, and to be only non-neutral, nor expert, fan's appreciation, nothing more.

And something else, Death are progressive like..? name at least 1 prog rock band (not metal nor prog-metal bands), it seems you won't be able to cite any because they haven't any prog root, since that's the only way to be accepted by the neutral point of view and the experience, of an expert of prog music as a real prog-metal band, I think that's the only trustable way or source in matters of prog.

Then "x" band is starting to be considered as progressive by FANS, not experts in prog, only fans of this "x" band, could you really trust them?, and if this band doesn't have any clear prog rock root, why to consider them progressive?, you see there's no single reason to do that; and why not just simply stay out of "prog" denomination and all this term involves? why to not just say it's complex metal instead?, thanks. –Progrocker7 19:36, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Progrocker7, again, please keep opinions to yourself. You are not the authority on Prog or any subject on this entire website. Your supposed well-formed discernment about music is useless here, as we simply repeat sources. Wikidan829 14:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
You are not an expert in prog yourself, there is no room for original research here. Wikidan829 15:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

— I may not be the authority on prog in this site, yes, but I just cited how the term progressive metal really appeared and was accepted by the prog community -for your knowledge-, prog-heads are way more reliable than any internet source if you have noticed it this far (I really hope you'd). Repeating unreliable and not expert sources (you said MTV was a good source), is as bad as posting your own unbalanced oppinion, Wikidan829, and why do you say I'm not an expert in prog?? how could you possibly say that if you don't really know me??... Trust me, when it comes to prog I know what I'm talking about. –Progrocker7 02:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Progrocker7. I want you to please understand. This is not a personal issue. Like I said on the Tool discussion, I am not picky over genres. As a musician myself, my opinion is that genres are non-existent. By this I mean that a genre may change from song to song, from album to album, even within the same song! I personally do not like prog music. I know it when I hear it, and I do not like it. So why would I still call my favorite band "progressive rock"? For a favorite band, and for a genre I do not like, don't you think I would take this as an insult? The explanation is simple - that is what Wikipedia is about. We relay information and summarize it for the masses. This is not a place about opinions. If it were a place about opinions, I would happily go with the genre "art rock" and leave it at that(for Tool), no prog rock. But this is not the place for opinions.
Unfortunately, MTV is crap, I know this as well as you do, but they do have an authority over us individuals. They are media. They are a "reliable" source. I think this is what our disparity has to do with. Bands "have been called" progressive rock or progressive metal. ALTHOUGH we both disagree that it truly is progressive rock or progressive metal, that has no place in Wikipedia. Wikipedia is about relaying information, and nothing more. This is the best I can describe it. If MTV or some other interview moron called it Progressive Rock or Progressive Metal, then we relay the information. Straight up, no opinions or personal taste involved. That is what Wikipedia is about, whether you(or I) like it or not. Regards, Wikidan829 03:13, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Death is Technical Death Metal. When they got progressive, they still had the Death Metal styling, making them progressive death metal, or technical death metal. They were never just progressive, so progressive metal does not apply to them. MTV is not a reliable source. They try to redefine things. MTV would consider deathcore bands death metal, and many other mistakes. XXMurderSoulXx (talk) 19:21, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I think melodic death metal should be added. They're later stuff (sound perseverance for example) is definitely melodeath. he uses a higher pithched vocal style, melodic riffs et c. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.5.155.191 (talk) 13:34, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lyrics slam against Paul Masvidal?

I removed the line commenting that The Philosopher was written as a "lyrical slam" as someone put it against Paul Masvidal because of an ambigious reference which is basically..

"Interestingly, the lyrics on ITP were quite angry, in contrast to the gore-oriented earlier albums and more spiritual later ones. The lyrics arose from Schuldiner's frustrations with the music industry, including lack of label promotion and legal altercations with Death manager Eric Greif (who produced Morbid Saint's Spectrum of Death) and various former bandmates."

If you can find a better reference add it back in but otherwise leave it.


No lyrics written by Death would ever be a driect slam of someone they might have had more meaning to Chuck like that but they were directed at a large group becuase that is how his music was written. Songs such as "The Philosopher" are talking about people who think they are smart and know everything but in realality know nothing about what they are talking about that is true. However lyrics can be interpeted in many ways so do not put anything on the page about lyrical meanings. For further proof of how lyrics can be interpeted differently look up the PMRC and how they didn't understand the song "Under the Knife" by Twisted Sister. Metalocalypse 13:32, 16 November 2007 (UTC)MetalocalypseMetalocalypse 13:32, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Please see the posting below. I agree with you in a general sense Metalocalypse, but Chuck admitted in interviews, etc. at the time that ITP contained personal slams on at least two folks - his former manager (half the album) and Masvidal (The Philosopher), who has always been into eastern philosophy and is openly gay but during the Human tour had not 'come out yet' (and neither had Reinert, who is also openly gay and came out during the late 90s). This needs to be encyclopedic, which isn't necessarily flattering about those we edit about. However, Chuck did state in interviews for Symbolic that his experience writing for ITP was important to him personally since it got out a lot of frustration. This isn't about censorship but about writing what we find to be accurate. Best, A Sniper 10:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


"but Chuck admitted in interviews" - again A Sniper, if Chuck admitted in interviews why is it that all you can produce is a comment from someone claiming to be Eric Grief? And I would assume you also have some evidence for claiming both Paul and Sean are gay? If you don't I'd suggest removing your comments. Wikipedia is increasingly growing in credibility with the information it provides and hence what we write should not be based on second hand information or rumors. I quote from directly below this box, "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable." Final Thoughts (talk) 01:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

with all due respect, the issue is whether Schuldiner wrote The Philosopher about Masvidal, not the sexual preferences of former band members. A Sniper 19:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More about Masvidal lyrical reference on ITP...

I've changed the reference to a better one and added back the Masvidal mention. Sorry but historical revisionism has no place at Wikipedia. Anyone in the know about Schuldiner & Death are aware that 'The Philosopher' is about Masvidal. Ex-manager Greif mentions it at the usually-accurate Blabbermouth (run by former Schuldiner fan/friend Borivoj Krgin):

"Chuck told me himself on the phone (in 1993), at a time when we were in the midst of a lawsuit over business stuff, that he had written The Philosopher about Paul and "half" his new album (I.T.P.) about me. I'm not proud of this, but it is a fact nevertheless. There is a lot of anger on that record, lyrically, but that represented the way things were back then. Chuck himself, in an interview I saw on YouTube (re: the release of Symbolic), said that he got out a lot of anger writing those I.T.P. lyrics, so it did serve a purpose. ERIC"

This should end the debate. A Sniper

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Individual Thought patterns.jpg

Explanation for Fair Use Rationale added to ITP album cover page. Warning removed. A Sniper

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Live in LA death.jpg

Explanation for Fair Use Rationale added to Live in LA album cover page. Warning removed. A Sniper

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Live in Eindhoven death.jpg

Explanation for Fair Use Rationale added to Live in Eindhoven album cover page. Warning removed. A Sniper

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:TheSoundOfPerseverance.jpg

Explanation for Fair Use Rationale added to The Sound of Perseverance album cover page. Warning removed. A Sniper

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Death Logo.png

I, as former Manager of Death at the time Chuck drew his more streamlined band logo (prior to the release of Human), have given a fair use rationale for use of it, including the fact that we allowed anyone and everyone to duplicate it (as long as it was not involved in commercial gain), and I hereby remove the warning. Griffyguy

If anyone needs a reference for Kam Lee designing the original logo, it can be found here: http://www.voicesfromthedarkside.de/interviews/kamlee.html. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Durandal1717 (talk • contribs) 19:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

this link doesn't work - besides, I am sure that Laurent or any of the VftD guys would say that Kam Lee's word alone on the subject of the band Death wouldn't necessarily be considered a reliable, objective source. Perhaps adding something like "Kam Lee has made the claim that...", but you'd need a decent link. A Sniper (talk) 19:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Death2

Perhaps you could come to this page before making your sweeping edits and rather non-good faith statements against the regular editors who do our best to keep this page accurate and NPOV. Best, A Sniper 15:08, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationales

All FUR templates finished for remaining Death covers that were under threat. I thereby blanked all the warnings. A Sniper 17:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Fate The Best Of Death.jpg

Image:Fate The Best Of Death.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:29, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Live in Eindhoven death.jpg

Image:Live in Eindhoven death.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Live in LA death.jpg

Image:Live in LA death.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:22, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mantas?

I made a search for the word mantas and I was directed here. If it is a previous band, than why does it direct here? Anyway, mantas are a item woven by native tribesmen in the amazon and I wanted to see what the wikipedia article on them said. Oh well. Contralya (talk) 03:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Mantas was originally the name of the band before they became Death and if what you mentioned can be notable enough that it can be verified with reliable sources then we could create a Mantas dablink that directs there or vice versa. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ kaiden 05:09, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Uhh I don't think they even have an article on what Contralya is talking about. I went to the Manta (disambiguation) page. They talk about quite a few things that deal with the name Manta and Mantas, but not any item woven in the Amazon. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 22:12, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Of coarse, there must be a Mantas (clothing) (or w.e it is) article to begin with. That's why I said if it is notable enough for inclusion with sources, etc. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ kaiden 22:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, but the user brings up one thought. Maybe "Mantas" shouldn't be a redirect to this page. Maybe it should redirect to the disambig page. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 22:41, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
I happened to just redirect it now, as it makes sense because it could be the plural for the clothing and who would happen to know the earlier name of Death, so it's just natural to redirect it to the Manta (disambiguation) page instead because they have a mention of their earlier name there anyway. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ kaiden 21:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Single-purpose account Jackmantas

I regret that the above user appears to be trolling articles I've contributed to and making blanking attempts, deletions, and whatever else. This appears to be based on malicious intent (for want of any other explanation) and not on verifiability, good faith or interest in the article topics. Sooner or later this user will work his/her way from the Chuck Schuldiner article over to this page. Cheers, A Sniper (talk) 21:05, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Progressive death metal

should not be included in genres as it is a redirect of Technical death metal which is also a listed genre.

Agreed, but I have addded Progressive metal to the genres as this side of the band needs to be adressed. And sign your comments. Johan Rachmaninov (talk) 22:53, 18 May 2008 (UTC)