Talk:Deadwood (TV series)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 This page is within the scope of WikiProject South Dakota, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on South Dakota on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
TV
Television Portal
This article is part of WikiProject Television, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to television programs and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
Assessment comments

Contents

[edit] Themes

It seems alot of these other Television articles have discussions of themes or ideas running through the show. Should do something similar here? This is such a layered show with a lot to discuss. Of course another question is how to approach it. What does everyone else think? Qjuad 17:55, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I love how the themes are shown in the Lost article. I think it would be awesome if we can incorporate some recurring themes from the show into the article. Sfufan2005 20:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Awesome. We should iron out ideas here and then if we all can agree there's a consensus, stick it in the article. Qjuad 22:10, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I think an important one to mention would be the profanity as there has been some controversy over the historical accuracy of it's usage in the dialogue. Supposedly David Milch claimed it to be accurate although I've also heard that it is just a modern day interpretation of how people spoke then. Still, I've yet to find a solid source for any of this so if anyone has anything, it's up for grabs. Phontain 19:24, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable Plots Lines

Should they be moved to a completely new article? Plus, I think they need an overhaul - some of the information is pretty misleading or not particuarly coherent. - Qjuad 10:03, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry if the plot lines are a little wrong. Feel free to correct it. I propose we keep the plot lines on this page similar to that of Grey's Anatomy and The Sopranos since for (1) the article would be a lot smaller (since we really don't need a laundry list of subarticles on the main page). Also, without it the article would just contain the character list, broadcasting and timeframes. + we already have an article for episodes. Hope that is alright with everyone. Sfufan2005 01:03, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I think we all appreciate the work you put into this, but with the eventual addition of Season 3 plot points, it might be better if we create a new page for them and add season summaries to this main page.(Steampowered 09:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Sources

All sources for the Episode synopsises, writer credits, and director credits came from http://www.hbo.com. -Sfufan2005

[edit] Disambiguation

This page needs to be moved to Deadwood ""(Tv Show)"" and a disambiguation page built for the term Deadwood.Elde 20:03, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

Someone moved the page to Deadwood (television program), after which I was considering moving it to Deadwood (television programme), i.e. the proper spelling of the word. But in an effort not to start up a BE/AE argument, I've erred for neutrality, and followed the example of The West Wing (television) by moving the page to Deadwood (television). BLANKFAZE | (что??) 20:48, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Why was it moved at all? SchmuckyTheCat 22:45, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, I don't understand either, it was fine. The link for the city was Deadwood, South Dakota. Who moved it? I think we should have discussed this before it was moved. Just my opinion. Sfufan2005 14:14, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Well, User_talk:Elde#Page move Gzuckier 16:31, 11 May 2005 (UTC)


User:Reflex Reaction moved the page from Deadwood (television) to Deadwood (TV series).
I've since gone through the Special:Whatlinkshere/Deadwood (television) page and changed the vast majority of the links so they point to the new article title (and there were plenty).
However, I haven't altered the links on people's user pages ('cept my own) - I'll leave that for you guys to do yourselves... Gram 13:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


what about ricky jay's character?

[edit] Characters

I split the characters into Major, Secondary, and Minor. All the minor characters were only present for a few episodes. Some of the choices were tough, Sophia Metz has barely any speaking parts and is barely a plot driver, but she is in every episode - so she is secondary not minor. Farnum is in every episode, but he's not the focus of any plots, so he was secondary. I'm going to suggest that in the near future this entire section is split out to a second article. SchmuckyTheCat 07:46, 18 May 2005 (UTC) Good job! Exactly as I would have categorized them. Sfufan2005 02:46, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

  • be nice if I'd signed that. maybe between seasons some re-working of this article should take place prepping it to look like more of the shows that have long histories. ie, moving character lists and plots to devoted articles, etc... SchmuckyTheCat 07:46, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
  • I would like to split the characters into a separate article a la Characters of Lost. I'll create it and if the general consensus does not like the way it looks, we can always revert it. Sfufan2005 23:12, May 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • I'd just make one sentence about the top few characters and keep linking to that Characters of Deadwood page. It gives us more "vertical" space to get stuff in about the show. There's more than just characters and plots by now. SchmuckyTheCat 03:05, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
  • I think it's fine just the way it is, because if you create sentences for only some of the characters, someone unknowingly will go in one day and make sentences for all characters. Or list their relationship to Deadwood what they are. JMHO. Sfufan2005 19:56, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Characters and History

the paragraph about historical figures seemed to want to list /all/ historical figures, which i think is a mistake -- there are simply too many. i reworded it a bit, left four characters in (feel free to quibble with my choices), and then added a column to the character table giving the fictionality status of all characters.

this is ... clumsy. to be honest, i think the table was already getting unwieldy for such a high spot in the main article. now i added a column as well as some missing characters and that cant have helped :-).

whats more, i can think of a handful more characters who could reasonably be included (eddie, lee, steve, hostetler, blazanov, carrie, mose) because they are integral to at least one plotline. plus, richardson would be an easy addition IF I COULD FIGURE OUT WHO PLAYS HIM! this show has a continuum from stars to guests such that wherever i try to draw the distinction, someone is left out or isolated in.

do we move the table to the characters page and leave a bare-bones table in its place? i really want to have the fictional -> real cross-reference somewhere on the site.

deadwood has so many characters, my inclination is to not list them all on the main page. i will probably start trimming fat tomorrow, unless someone else does it or tells me not to. Burgher 11:18, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

  • I like the "based on" addition. I was going to suggest it. I think as many characters as possible should be listed - however, it is getting unwieldy and I'd (Still) suggest we somehow get that section to focus on a few characters (as text) and move the chart to the characters of deadwood article. SchmuckyTheCat 15:02, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
  • I added professions to Deadwood, to describe a short description of what their relationship to the camp is. Remember on focus of shortening characters, "There are no small characters, just small actors". I think we should keep all the characters becuase they are all a vital part of the show. Thanks. Sfufan2005 23:24, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Samuel Fields

Is this character ever actually identified by name in the show? Isn't he just known as "Nigger General" in the series? -Bonalaw 15:08, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, in Episode 2.05: Complications. Sfufan2005 17:45, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. --Bonalaw 08:38, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Iambic Pentameter

I was watching Dinner For Five on IFC and David Milch said that all the dialoque was written in iambic pentameter. Anyone have more info on this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.86.114.110 (talk • contribs) 00:17, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

After reading your comment, I carefully watched episode 2.6 (my second time) with open eyes. I have to say, there are moments during the dialogue where it bears a strong resemblance to Shakespearean and Marlowean dramatic dialogue, in 19th century English. I didn't have a pen in hand to copy down dialogue and read it measure by measure, but there may very well be some truth to that iambic pentameter rumour. ℬastique▼parℓer♥voir♑ 04:16, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure one way or the other if the dialog is 'pure' iambic pentameter. But I'm damn sure ppl on the outskirts of American territory didn't speak in a such, as has been suggested, Shakespearian style. Duluoz

Maybe Milch THINKS that SOME of the lines were written in a certain way... but were they, really? I can't hear any evidence of meter in the dialogue. Keep the "iambic pentameter" rumors out of the article until someone produces some proof or a source, please. -AG

[edit] Hostetler

How could all of you forget him? ℬastique▼parℓer♥voir♑ 04:22, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

How could we when he is the only African-American character in the whole show, ad he appears for about 4 seconds? I have watched 14 episodes and seen no other black or Hispanic chracters. There isn't much point arguing about the historical basis in fact for this character or that when the demographic of the whole show is so screwey. It is kind of like one of those 1950s biblical epics where Jesus and all the other Hebrews are played by blond haired, blue-eyed aryans. The west was settled, populated and colonised by a large number of African-Americans and Hispanics. The abject racism in Deadwood is disgusting (the word 'Chink' is clearly the scriptwriters mainfestation of the deeply held wish that they could repeatedly say 'nigger' on TV; but as he cannot do that they use 'Chink'. Over uses it to the point that it is kind of embarassing); but aside from the racism is the historical inaccuracy: there was a large number of African Americans, Hispanics and even native peoples living in the town. I guess it doesn't serve the white dominated elites to let it be known that three quarters of cowboys were black or Hispanic, or that the achievement of colonising the western states was not a wholly white affair.Andrew Riddles (talk) 10:56, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Your high dudgeon is misplaced. Among the black actors on the show, Franklin Ajaye appeared in 11 episodes, Cleo King in 9, Richard Gant in 7, and Omar Gooding in 2. There's not one of them that isn't a rich, rounded character. And the show certainly didn't shy away from the word "nigger," and certainly didn't use "chink" to "make up" for the fact that the writers "cannot" use the other word. As to the racist nature of many of the characters, I think you're confusing writing ABOUT racism with racism itself. Have you actually read the letters from people of that time and place? If anything, the show seems perfectly in tune with the real times. If you want to decry the lack of racial diversity in television, you'd do better to pick another show. Of course, saying that Hostetler only appears for "about 4 seconds" suggests your interest in the truth is less a priority than your sermonizing. Monkeyzpop (talk) 05:41, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Episode Guide

Do you think we should try formatting the episode guide so its more like articles like The Sopranos and Carnivale?--CyberGhostface 20:36, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean? It has its own article List of Deadwood episodes. Sfufan2005 20:43, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Crap. I didn't see that page. Sorry.--CyberGhostface 02:26, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Save Deadwood

IMHO, HBO should have just cancelled the final series of Sopranos (which has been declining in quality for several series now - the final series is unbelievably dull) and given the funding to the fourth series of Deadwood. Anyway, the future of HBO looks increasingly like "It's just like the other TV networks. It's HBO". Bwithh 19:28, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Even better, HBO should have put their money into retaining Deadwood instead of investing in Lucky Louie which looks unfunny and insipid, based on their own commercials for it. --thirty-seven 18:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Lets all be just be glad that the horrid 'Entourage' is still going full force. Deadwood's too intellegent and meaningful for the 'target demographic' anyways, better to have a badly acted show about privilaged white boys spending money and screwing teenagers. Duluoz
Well at least we know that with HBO, we'll get the best shows about rich white boys and screwing teenagers that we'll see on TV. Think about Entourage like it's The Simple Life, only with more screwing of teenagers and a little less worthlessness. So at least you know you've got a little bit of roses sprinkled on some of HBO's processed shit. I was thinking about canceling HBO until I remembered about Rome. It has a lot of the same themes, and it's pretty damn good. By the way, Deadwood was originally going to be a show based on the Urban Cohorts in Rome, but as production of Rome was already underway, he decided to set it in another lawless setting, which ended up being Deadwood. [1]. If I forget to put that in the article, please add it. (Steampowered 08:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC))
Hate to break it to you but Rome is also slated to be cancelled following its second season. I think this cancellation and this period in general will be remembered as the turning point in which HBO began the transformation into a whole different kind of channel than people knew them for.

[edit] Deadwood Season 2 Region 2 DVD Question

(Repost from the Humanities Reference Desk) I've recently purchased the complete season 2 of Deadwood on region 2 DVD. While I am able to watch the episodes without any problems, I cannot seem to be able to access the additional episode commentaries. I have bought a legitmate copy and the box packaging does advertise the audio commentaries as being available.

I've tried searching for help on the internet without any success. I did find a review (see the link below) which contains a picture of the title menu with Episodes, Langauge & Features as the options. My version only displays Episodes and Subtitles in it's menu. http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=21812

I've tried playing it on my PS2 and using InterWin DVD Player & DVD X Player on my laptop but without any joy. They only show one available audio channel, and don't display any other menu options.

Given the popularity of the show, I would hope that there are plenty of fellow wikipedians who have purchased the same box set, and are possibly suffering from the same problem.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Gallaghp 13:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid there are no commentaries on the Region 2 DVD - it is very much a case of false advertisement. I believe paramount control the overseas distribution of Deadwood DVDs, not HBO, thus they don't have any of the extras. But I might be wrong. In any case, the Region 2 DVDs for both the first and season season are bare bones. The picture of the menu in that review is taken from the Region 1 DVD. Qjuad 14:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

On a similar note, the boxes state "may be edited from their original network versions". What's that about? Do the DVDs have bits missing? Cardinal Wurzel 23:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Despite the disclaimer, as far as I am aware the Region 1 and 2 DVDs are uncut. I don't know about the rest. Qjuad 01:07, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

please ,for the Gods sake continue this show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.165.73.108 (talk) 20:26, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Silas Adams

Removed reference to the real life Silas Adams as a basis for the character. A quick read of the real Adams biography makes it pretty obvious there is no connection to the "bagman from yankton"

[edit] Profanity

People did not curse so violently in that era. People view this show and aqcuire the idea that the social interaction part of the show is realistic.

Not only that, but the continuous use of such language merely informs the viewer that the show's writers were too lazy to actually write dialogue. This was proven by their use of modern profanity and obscenity.

This is ill-informed and ill-advised. Anyone who can refer to the dialog of Deadwood as being lazily written clearly knows nothing about writing. It is some of the most intricate, complex, and richly shaded dialog in the history of television. Secondly, as to people "not cursing so violently in that era": The Deadwood camp was founded in the spring of 1876. By the fall, the camp was averaging a murder every day. Yet the first law ever passed in Deadwood, the very first, was a law against profanity -- because THAT had gotten out of hand! (Source: Deadwood Historical Society, Deadwood SD). Third: I refer you to the transcript of the (year) 1878 Records Relating to the Dudley Court of Inquiry, Office of the Judge Advocate General, CQ 1284, Record Group 153, National Archives, a military tribunal involving a much larger settled frontier town than Deadwood at the same time period. In it you will find sworn testimony containing all of the most prevalent profanity heard in the Deadwood tv series. There's nothing "modern" about the profanity used in Deadwood. Monkeyzpop (talk) 08:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I could have sworn that David Milch told The New Yorker last year that the profanity was based on research he conducted. Similarly, The History Channel did a show last year about Deadwood's realism, including its profanity, and had a historian comment on period documents that capture the profanity of the period. I'll see if I can track down these sources to confirm. Acarvin 17:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

On the subject of the profanity, that section is marked as a section without citations. After seeing this, I searched all over for that particular quote. The closest I found was the actress who plays Trixie saying “What surprises me is when people won’t watch because they want to hear western men speak like Yosemite Sam.”[2] Perhaps the quote at the end of the paragraph was included in a DVD commentary. --(Steampowered 09:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)).

The Yosemite Sam quote doesn't come from the commentary Milch does on the commentary for the pilot, nor on the filmed interview between Milch and Keith Carradine. Can anyone corroborate that it's on the second season DVDs? From what I've read, Milch doesn't portray the language as being totally anachronistic, and has deflected critics who say otherwise. On the DVD he commented that the language of Deadwood was meant to dispell the quaintess of western society perpetrated by deference to the Hays code in the classic Hollywood period. In the aforementioned New Yorker profile [3] Milch had written a memo to HBO in defense of his liberal use of profanity:
"If, as seems demonstrable, words like prick, cunt, shit, fuck and cocksucker would have been in common usage in the time and place in which 'Deadwood' is set, then, like any words, in form and frequency their expression will be governed by the personality of a given character, imagined by the author with whatever imperfection, as the character is shaped and tested in the crucible of experience. The goal is not to offend but to realize the character's full humanness."
Unless someone can provide a source for the "Yosemite Sam" remark (and who knows, I haven't heard the second DVD's set of commentaries), I think the subsection on profanity ought to be redone entirely. Mseyers 04:39, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

So I've rewritten the profanity section, because so much of what was said was wrong and easily disproved by the definitive New Yorker profile on Milch, and each commentary track on the dvds that Milch has done, and basically everything that's been written about the show. I'm convinced the "Yosemite Sam" comment doesn't exist. Mseyers 19:46, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The Yosemite Sam comment was made on Terry Gross' Fresh Air show. Unfortunately, unlike Tavis Smiley, transcripts for her shows are not available online free anywhere that I could find.RoyBatty42 04:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Anyone feel like double checking that the series "Fuck" count is accurate? It could make an excellent drinking game. Comradeash (talk) 13:09, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Captain Turner

Shouldn't he be mentioned in the characters page?69.33.101.98 18:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any reason why not. But he's not much of a character anymore. (Steampowered 08:37, 19 July 2006 (UTC))


[edit] TV Movie Follow-up?

The two follow up 2-hour TV movies are far from a done deal. Don't think it should be stated as fact as it is right now in the introduction. NSpector 05:06, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


         im pretty sure milch stated in interviews, covered by ign.com, that he was working on the scripts and they could start shooting as early as this summer/fall. the sets are all still up, and if i am not mistaken, many of the actors have given verbal support for making the film. 10 bucks says this ends in bloodshed 22:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's mostly correct (the sets are, at the moment, partially still up), but the actors are yet to sign contracts. A few of actors and crew members post regularly on HBO's Deadwood message boards keeping fans up to date. NSpector 00:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


I suspect that the blurb about how HBO has made no final decision is just a smoke screen to bolster interest in the repeated airings and DVD sales of the series. If one knew for certain that a story would be unfinished he would be less likely to invest time in the telling of its begining. Not saving the sets means that to make the movies would be very expensive. Not retaining the actors means that they will more than likely be engaged in other projects and will never have a block of time to make the films where all the principle characters are available. This show was well received amongst hollywood insiders making the actors more valuable and therefore more difficult to bring together for a reunion movie. For me, the series died with the introduction of the little band of actors into the community. Why is it that Hollywood thinks their work is so noble that they can't leave it out of a single show? Z07 18:52, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

"Hollywood" wasn't being introduced into the show. Hollywood was the home of Chumash Indians in 1877. What was being introduced to the community (and thus, the show) from the very beginning was civilization, for better or for worse. First comes law, then a certain amount of order, then the spreading reach of government, private enterprise, education, and the arts. Each of these got its due in "Deadwood." You didn't say why do teachers think their work is so noble they can't leave it out of a single show. (David Milch was a teacher before he was a screenwriter, and the coming of a school to Deadwood was no less prominent than the arrival of the theatre company.) And the theatre company thread was intended as groundwork for a major plot development in the fourth season, one more reason to decry the loss of that fourth season, as that loss cost the show the true meaning of the troupe's presence. And finally, if you can find a cultural quality more noble than the theatre, with its goal of enlightenment and revelation and the reduction of the burdens of the soul through a respite of enjoyment and pleasure, I'd like to know what it is. Monkeyzpop 21:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Updated characters and provided links

Updated Joanie Stubbs and Trixie and provided links to why these characters were not based on actual people or based on several people. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 146.130.123.33 (talk) 17:05, 1 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] New noticeboard

A new noticeboard, Wikipedia:Fiction noticeboard, has been created. - Peregrine Fisher 18:02, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

This noticeboard has been deleted per Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Fiction noticeboard. Please disregard the above post. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] historical divergence???

Al Swearengen
... what does it matter, that he came from iowa and not from England?
Nowhere in the series (as I remember it) this matter is stated as a fact - only Al pretends sometimes to be original english ...
I cannot see any divergence since where is stated, that the historical AL never pretended to be an english man?
88.217.12.92 18:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)