Talk:Dead Sea

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WikiProject Oceans

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Oceans, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of oceans, seas, and bays. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article or you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks or take part in the discussion.
??? This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project's quality scale.
??? This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project's importance scale.
After rating the article, please provide a short summary on the article's ratings summary page to explain your ratings and/or identify the strengths and weaknesses.
Dead Sea was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: May 25, 2007
Peer review Dead Sea has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
This article has been reviewed by the Version 1.0 Editorial Team.
Version 0.5
 This article has been selected for Version 0.5 and subsequent release versions of Wikipedia.

Contents

[edit] Volume

The volume is incorrect. 147 km³ is not the same as 91 mi³ (143 km³ is about 35 mi³). Which figure is correct? 143 km³ or 91 mi³? This page says the volume is 128 billion m³ (which is 128 km³) with a surface level of -409 meters.

Neonstz 16:59, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Density

can anyone put (a rough idea) of the density of water at the dead sea. in gm/cc or kg per meter cube as you wish i think it would be useful to put a rough figure even if it is not exact.

nids 22:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Which is the lower point?

This article claims the Dead Sea is the lowest point on the surface of the Earth, but the Bentley Subglacial Trench article makes the same claim. I think the claim here should be removed, unless there is some technicality at work, in which case that technicality needs to be mentioned. Danorris 00:20, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

I'd never heard of the Bentley Subglacial Trench before you asked this question, but the trench must be under ice. The Dead Sea is always given as the lowest spot on the Earth's (exposed) surface. The Trench can be mentioned as an aside at the end of a paragraph. Dinopup 01:37, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
I think the Bentley Subglacial Trench article is simply wrong. The trench is not the "lowest point on the surface of the earth" -- that would be the Mariana Trench. It's certainly not the lowest exposed point, either, as it is covered with ice. I think the description of the Dead Sea as "lowest exposed point" is accurate and sufficient, and am changing it. -Dcfleck 18:56, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I think that the dead sea is the 3rd lowest point after reading your guyz talk. This is really confusing for me cause I am doing a report on Jordan and a lot of resorces say differant things about the Dead Sea.Cortneyrocks123

[edit] Claims about health benefits

Quite a bit of the claims about theraputic effects of the Dead Sea in this article seem like they've been copied directly out of some sort of Dead Sea health spa brochure. Particularly the claims about lowered UV content in the sunlight seems pretty suspect (frankly: unscientific nonsense). If nobody steps forward to provide credible references I will edit most of that stuff out. There's also a lot of redundant (sometimes contradictory) content about the chemical makeup of the water which needs to be addressed. --Bk0 16:54, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Agreed; I've removed this worst offending paragaph - MPF 11:10, 20 December 2005 (UTC):
Sunlight at the Dead Sea is high in therapeutic UVA rays and low in burning UVB, so extended exposure is safe and low-risk. The filtering effect comes from a thick atmosphere: the Dead Sea is over 400 m below sea level and the ozone layer above it is minimally depleted. The Dead Sea is the only place on Earth where you can sunbathe for extended periods with little or no sunburn because harmful ultraviolet rays are filtered through three natural layers: an extra atmospheric layer, an evaporation layer that exists above the Dead Sea, and a rather thick ozone layer-even though CFCs are gradually eating it away elsewhere. The light at the Dead Sea is said to be especially good for people suffering from psoriasis.
I'm also removing the following 2 sentances:
The water of the Dead Sea contains 21 minerals including magnesium, calcium, bromine and potassium. Twelve of these are found in no other sea or ocean, and some are recognized for imparting a relaxed feeling, nourishing the skin, activating the circulatory system and for easing rheumatic discomfort and metabolic disorders.
If somebody can provide a verifiable source for them, please feel free to provide it an replace the lines. --Dcfleck 14:46, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the Sea of Lot

The Arabic name for the Dead Sea translates directly as The Dead Sea. The arabic written in the opening portion (البحر الميت) is translated as The Dead Sea. I'm not sure if I've ever heard it referred to as the Sea of Lot (which would be written as بحر لوط), but I don't dispute that could also be referenced to in that way. Soviak

That's interesting that the Arabic says "Dead Sea." The Sea of Lot bit came from a book I read about the Dead Sea by Barbara Krieger. This website refers to the DS as "Bahr Lut." Could you add "Bahr Lut"? http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?pp/matpc:@field(NUMBER+@band(matpc+07359)) So does this one. http://www.o-allah.com/php/travel6.php Dinopup 00:19, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm a translator by occupation but not a native speaker. I'm also new to editing content on Wikipedia and want to provide something useful in an area I have some expertise at. The DS is called "Al Bahr Al Mayyit" in arabic in news broadcasts, on the arabic Wikipedia, and on this website http://lexicorient.com/e.o/dead_sea.htm . It's the way i've found it most commonly used. I've ran through my dictionaries and the most reliable one says that "Bahr Lut" is used as well. How about the following as a proposed way of wording it:

In Arabic the Dead Sea, "Al Bahr Al Mayyit", is also called "Bahr Lut" meaning "the Sea of Lot." In past times Arabs called it the "Sea of Zoar," after a nearby town. To the Greeks, the Dead Sea was "Lake Asphaltites." (see below)

Kudos and Wikilove on the flora/fauna edit. I would have just posted this change in the first place on my own, but I'm still lacking confidence. Soviak


Are you sure it's Bahr al-mayyit? I've never heard death as "mayyit" (but then, I'm just an arabic student, not a translator), but only as mawt. Are they both used, or is mayyit coloquial (it seems to just be a different form w/ w->y as often happens). - Yom 21:17, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

It's not coloquial. Mawt is the noun while mayyit is the adjective. - Cybjorg 14:42, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ummm

So is the NaCl conc. 8% or 12-18%?!

Authoritative mineral concentrations are difficult to come by. I got my numbers from a commercial Dead Sea salt supplier's product analysis (adjusted to percentage minus water of crystallization), that's the origin of the 8% NaCl. I don't know where the figures in the next paragraph come from. --Bk0 23:59, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I found a research paper by Ilana Steinhorn of the Weizmann Institute of Science published in Limnol. Oceanogr. 28(3),1983, 580-583. The first of data set is from the paper giving the concentration of ionic species in g/kg of Dead Sea surface water:
Cl 181.4, Br 4.2, SO4 0.4, HCO3 0.2, Ca 14.1, Na 32.5, K 6.2, Mg 35.2
The second is my calculation of the composition of the salts, as anhydrous chlorides:
CaCl2 14.4%, NaCl 30.4%, KCl 4.4%, MgCl2 50.8%
Total salinity measured at 276 g/kg
This puts the amount of NaCl much higher than either of the previous two values, but the source of the data is impeccable. Silverchemist 17:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oren Shatz's links

Anon, what is the problem with Oren Shatz's external link? I found some of the photos on that site fascinating (and relevant). --Yath 22:13, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Saving the Red Sea

The last section of the article is titled "Saving the Red Sea", but the threat is not well explained. It is touched upon early in the article in this sentence:

"Beginning in the 1960s water inflow to the Dead Sea from the Jordan River was reduced as a result of large-scale irrigation and generally low rainfall."
That raises my Q: is the Jordan R the only 1 flow into Dead Sea? It isn't clr from the article (as far as I could tell). Trekphiler 23:57, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Faith & Sodom

The article puts it & Gomorrah on the shore of the Dead Sea; I've seen a doc that suggests they are both under it now... Can anybody cite a source? Trekphiler 23:59, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Try searching the Jordan River then, it might not work though

[edit] Structures south of Dead Seas

What are those aquatic structures south of the Dead Sea, extending 13 x 30 km² in size, around 31.13° N 35.45° E? --Abdull 12:03, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure, but given that the Dead Sea is slowly shrinking, perhaps they are a series of dams or lochs designed to control the amount of water. - Cybjorg 12:20, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
They look like evaporation basins, possibly for salt harvesting. --Dcfleck 12:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "elevation"

The article states that the Dead Sea has "an elevation of 394 m (1291 ft) below sea level". Wikipedia definition for Elevation: "The elevation of a geographic location is its height above a fixed reference point." So wouldn't the depth of the valley/whatever be 394m, not its elevation. The elevation would be -394m (negative 394 meters' elevation), right? --HJV 16:05, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Technically, yes. It is a bit confusing, but the phrase does state that it is "below sea level". However, I would prefer it your way. - Cybjorg 05:10, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salinity %?

This state of Utah site claims water cannot go beyond 27%, but the article here says the Dead Sea is 31.5% salinity?

http://geology.utah.gov/online/PI-39/pi39pg9.htm

Who is incorrect?


Both are correct. You have to consider that the composition of Dead Sea water is different from common seawater.
The chemical composition of its mineral content is 53% MgCl2, 37% KCl, and very little NaCl (only 8%).
The solubility of NaCl at 25°C is 35.9g/100ml of water (representing therefore 26.4% of the weight of a saturated solution).
Compare that to the solubility of MgCl2 of 54.2 g/100ml of water [at 20°C], which corresponds to 35.1% of mineral weight in a saturated solution.
--HYC 11:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geography.

Are there any cities around the Dead Sea? I really want to know that the name of cities around by Dead Sea from both sides(Israel, Palestine, Jordan).. I think that there is no city name next to Dead Sea. Do you know the city's name next to Dead Sea? Is dead sea nearby mountain from Israel, Palestine Sides? Daniel5127, 02:04, 30 April 2006(UTC)

[edit] Jordan River

Wasn't the Jordan River diverted for agriculture and not flowing into the Dead Sea?

Ascend 17:19, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salinity: Dead Sea vs. Don Juan Pond

The beginning of the article states that the Dead Sea has the highest Salinity of any body of water, but at the bottom it states that West Antarctica's Don Juan Pond has a greater salinity. Which is it? Bored 3779 18:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Don Juan pond is just a small pond, I suppose anyone could create artificially a saturated pond with higher salinity. I don't know, does a small pond count as a "body of water"?--Doron 23:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The Salton Sea in California is listed at 40% salinity, which would seem to contradict the claims here.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.23.234.242 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Salinity

Wikipedia Articles state that the Dead Sea is the most saline body of water...however the Red Sea (in it's wikipedia article) has "Salinity ranges between 36 and 38 ‰" Compared to the Dead Sea's "salinity of about 30%" These two seem incompable, so someone should look into this...

Well, Bakerbri (pls sign your msgs), the difference is in the '%' and '‰'. The first is percent, or hundredths, and the second is per-thousands (note the extra zero under the slash mark.) So, the Red Sea at 36 to 38 ‰ is equal to 3.6 to 3.8% (percent), not unusual for ocean water, and much less saline than Dead Sea. Hope this helps. PBarak 00:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

The Salton Sea in California is listed at 40% salinity, which would seem to contradict the claims here.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.23.234.242 (talk • contribs).

No, the Salton Sea has a salinity of 40‰, not 40%.--Doron 22:01, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Natural history

The natural history is very unclear to me... Too confusing.SkyScrapers 14:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Query

Why is there no such thing as Category:Dead Sea? --McTrixie/Mr Accountable 13:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] lead sentence

I have introduced a point of disagreement in the lead sentence, so rather start an edit war over it, I would like to ask for other opinions. Reading a lead sentence about a body of water that says it is the lowest point on Earth not covered by water is confusing to the reader, is it not? I have tried to edit this twice, in two different ways, and these edits have been reverted. There are other ways to clarify this besides how I have done it, but I thought I would ask for other opinions first. --Sfmammamia 17:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, the Dead Sea contains water, but it isn't covered by water, is it?--Doron 14:44, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Your statement is technically correct, but I maintain that something can be technically correct and still be confusing to the lay reader. In this case, the reader's attention is focused on the thing itself, the Dead Sea, a body of water, not by what it is covered with, presumably air. We are concerned with the thing itself, which has a surface of water. To say it isn't covered by water diverts attention from the thing we are trying to address. --Sfmammamia 04:04, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't disagree, I'm just not sure what is a better phrasing. The clearest way of stating this is probably to say that the Dead Sea shore is the lowest ... not covered by water, which is technically correct and not confusing, but I'm even less comfortable with it than the current version. "Not covered by ocean" is simply incorrect (see Lake Baikal).--Doron 20:22, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the link to Lake Baikal; that clarifies where my earlier edits went wrong. Here's a suggested edit of the lead paragraph that I think is less confusing and still correct, posted here rather than as a bold edit to see if it causes any further objections:

The Dead Sea ((Arabic: البحر الميت‎), Hebrew: ים המלח‎, translated as Sea of Salt), is a salt lake between Israel and Jordan. Commonly known as the Earth's lowest point, it occurs at 418 m (1,371 feet) below sea level and falling,[1] so its shores are at the Earth's lowest point not under water or ice. It is the deepest hypersaline lake in the world, at 330 m (1,083 feet) deep. It is also the second saltiest body of water on Earth, with a salinity of about 30 percent.[2] Only Lake Asal (Djibouti) has a higher salinity. This is about 8.6 times greater than average ocean salinity. It measures 67 km (42 miles) long, 18 km (11 miles) wide at its widest point. The Dead Sea lies in the Jordan Rift Valley. The main tributary is the Jordan River.

--Sfmammamia 22:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

much better, regards sbandrews (t) 05:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
okay, I've made the edit. -- Sfmammamia 07:58, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
What is this "commonly known" business? This is gibberish. The Dead Sea is the lowest point on earth except for some unknown place "under water" or "under ice?" Come on, guys. Gimme a break.--Gilabrand 16:54, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA comment

Either remove the statements that have "citation needed" after them or add the inline citation, or a reviewer may quick-fail the article solely for this reason. --Nehrams2020 07:02, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA Review

  • Review: I have not promoted this article for the following reasons:
    • The notice about {{fact}} was left here, and nothing was done about it.
    • There are a couple external links in the prose, which should be converted to refs. The refs should use {{cite web}} templates or similar, and overall the article needs more citation; several sections have one to none.
    • The structure is unappealing. So many sections break up the flow of reading, so it should be organized more like "Characteristics", and then under that have "Flora" "Chemical properties" etc. Also, avoid restating the article title in headings ("Therapies popular at Dead Sea" -> "Popular therapies"). Remove the red links.
    • This statement "because evaporation slows down as surface area decreases and salinity increases" should be linked to the property or law this pertains to.
    • The Chemistry section, is probably the most important, since people will want to know why the Sea is so strange, so it could be expanded a little.
    • Units must be preceded by non-breaking space: 14km -> 14 km
    • The writing should flow more like natural speaking English. This:

It is the second saltiest body of water on Earth, with a salinity of about 30 percent. Only Lake Asal (Djibouti) has a higher salinity. This is about 8.6 times greater than average ocean salinity.

Is choppy. Try something like "It is second to Lake Asal at most salty body of water on Earth, with 30 percent salinity, which is about 8.6 times greater than the average."
  • It's getting there, but unfortunately not quite a Good Article. However, it covers a wide variety of relavent information, and is very interesting to read. I commend those who work on this, but the main detriments are too few references and the many, but minor, technical formatting errors. ALTON .ıl 00:49, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] language order in lead sentence

There appears to be an ongoing dispute about the order in which the languages are displayed in the lead sentence. I can see justifications for two lines of thought: 1) display them alphabetically, in which case Arabic should appear first. 2) display them in agreement with the geography that appears in the sentence, i.e., Israel and Jordan (Hebrew, then Arabic). If the order is changed to alphabetical (Arabic first), then perhaps we should change the order of the country names as well? Any other thoughts? -- Sfmammamia 17:06, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, since the Dead Sea is shared by both Hebrew- and Arabic-speaking countries, the order is not important.--Doron 19:36, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Salinity relatively to Mediterranean

This article claims "Israeli experts say it is nine times saltier than the Mediterranean Sea (31.5% salt versus 3.5% for the Mediterranean)." but the Sea water article figure seems to show the Mediterranean to be around 3.8/3.9%. 3.5% seems to be the mean salinity of all ocean water, the Mediterranean is saltier. Also, a reference to the "Israeli experts" is missing. The inconsistency should be corrected; I don't know what's correct. —Preceding [[Wikipe dia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by 213.47.181.20 (talk) 15:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


The opening picture "Sunset" has no encyclopedic value. please consider changing it something which can be directly attributed to Dead Sea. - A lay user

[edit] Hebrew Translation

The Hebrew Translation is wrong. It's either "Sea of the Salt" or "The Salt Sea". "Yam HaMelakh" Literally translated is "Sea the Salt", but the of can be implied, as in "Yom Huledet" which is day of birth (i.e. birthday). Here "Hamelakh" means the salt, as the Hebrew prexid ha means the, with melakh meaning salt. However, it could also mean "The Salt Sea". However, this is unlikely, as this type of language is uncommon in modern Hebrew. . Just as "Yam Suf" means "Sea of Reeds", the Red Sea, Yam Hamelakh would mean Sea of the Salt, not just Sea of Salt. Smartyllama (talk) 11:43, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Salinity

The article claims that the Dead Sea is the world's second saltiest body of water, after Lake Asal in Djibouti. It also claims that the Dead Sea's salinity is 31.5%. According to the Wikipedia Garabogazkol article, the Garabogazkol bay has a salinity of 35%. This would make the Dead Sea the third saltiest body of water. Not sure which is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.141.189 (talk) 01:53, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the Dead Sea figures would be correct, isnt this widely regarded to be second most saline?--Flymeoutofhere (talk) 10:05, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Don Juan Pond has the highest salinity of all (40.2 % weight). And I think there's a lake of 38 % in China – I found it while doing a little research on the topic, but since I've forgotten its name, I've had a hard time finding it again. If the 35 % figure is indeed correct, Garabogazköl's omission could owe to a technicality: it's a part of a larger body of water, namely the Caspian Sea. --Anshelm '77 (talk) 01:34, 25 February 2008 (UTC)