Talk:Dead Man's Curve

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There is now a seeming contradiction on the "Dead Man's Curve" article.

"The advisory speed is 35 miles per hour (60 kilometers per hour), although the legal speed limit is 50 mph (80 km/h) as on adjacent sections of the Shoreway and Innerbelt."

"In 1965, the state lowered the speed limit from 50 mph to 35 mph."

I created the first quotation, basing it on personal observations, partially backed up at my website at http://www.roadfan.com/dtclev.html#dm (which is one of the external links listed at the bottom of the article). The conditions which I describe are still extant as of January 27, 2006 (three days ago as I write this). I believe that the confusion stems from the fact that speeds on advisory speed signs (see http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/part2c.htm#section2C46 are not the true legal speed limit, as I understand it, so whatever the last actual black-characters-on-white-background speed limit sign read is what the speed limit is. (See http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part2/part2b1.htm#section2B13 ) In this case, there are "SPEED LIMIT 50" signs in both directions prior to Dead Man's Curve, and all the 35 mph indications are on yellow fields on the overhead signs, or advisory speeds.

As for the second quote (pre-existing), I have no way to challenge this as I was not even born in 1965 much less in the area. I would assume that the advisory vs. compulsory issue is there, but not being around at the time, I can't deny that the state might have actually installed regulatory black-on-white "SPEED LIMIT 35" signs, then replaced them with "SPEED LIMIT 50" signs by the time that I saw the signage for the first time.

As such, I am leaving the page as is, with the apparent contradiction. 198.30.228.3 22:28, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

The second quote is from the Plain Dealer article. This ODOT PDF (see page 7) seems to indicate that the speed limit is 50, not 35. -- Mwalcoff 23:25, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Here's another nasty bend in the "Sure-Kill." Google Maps

This curve is not renowned for being particularly dangerous; all of the Schuylkill from PA 291 to the river, including this curve is signed for 45 MPH.

Honestly this article is a mess, I've lived in and around Philadelphia all my life and I can assure that no part of the Schuylkill is referred to as a "dead-man's curve." (The one infamous "curve", the Conshohocken Curve, is a long, gradual bend infamous for backups due to sun glare, not accidents.) Krimpet 18:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)