Talk:De (Chinese)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is part of WikiProject China, a project to improve all China-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other China-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome. |
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (see comments) |
|
More information about this article...
|
|
 |
This article is supported by the Taoism WikiProject.
This project provides a central approach to Taoism-related subjects on Wikipedia. |
|
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. See comments | |
Contents |
[edit] Corrections
I have made two corrections to this well-written Wikipedia entry. RE: "Han Dynasty scribes created the simpler variant de 徳, without the stroke above "heart"." - This is completely untrue. Most inscriptions and excavated texts prior to the Han do not have the horizontal line. If anything, the Han scribes added it!
RE: "Although the compound word daode (道德) originally referred to the Daodejing, Confucian moralists semantically changed it to "morality, ethical principles, ethics, moral philosophy", which is the usual modern meaning." - Also untrue. The compound daode occurred long before the Daodejing was given that name.
I did not find the comparison between Legge's and Muller's translation of De in the Analects is not very helpful, but have left it alone. Bao Pu 19:56, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Primary
re: "The former primary character de 惪/悳 combines the "heart; mind" radical 心 and a zhi 直 "straight; upright; erect" phonetic. (Two millennia ago, the Old Chinese pronunciations of zhi and de were *drjək 直 and *tək 德, as reconstructed by Li Fanggui.) The latter amplified character de 德 adds the "step; walk; locomotion" radical 彳, which abbreviates the "go; walk; travel; conduct; behavior" radical 行 (originally picturing a crossroad)."
-- This section needs revision. I am removing "primary" and "amplified" for now. The character originally had no heart radical, but it did have "walk" radical.
[edit] De in the Tao Te Ching
This section quotes many commentators about the Tao Te Ching, but I think it should focus more on the original definitions, which seem fairly unambiguous, if confusing. From the C. Ganson translation (which seems most poetic and straightforward to me and uses "Teh" for De)[1]:
- 10. Can you control your mind so that it never strays from the way of Tao? Can you control your breathing so that it is soft and gentle like a new-born babe? Can you purify yourself so that you are perfect? Can you love all the people, rule them, and remain unknown? And do so without interference? Can you play the same role always? Give birth, provide nourishment; do this without being possessive. Give help without obligation. Lead without dominating. This is the Mythic Virtue (Teh [De]).
- 28. He who knows the mystic male (Yang) yet retains the mystic female (Yin) is as a great canyon welcoming the whole world. He has Teh and is innocent as a child. Whoever is aware of the white (Yang) yet retains the black (Yin) is as a standard for all the world. He has Teh and has returned to the Absolute. Whoever is aware of fame and glory yet retains humility and obscurity is as a valley that can hold the earth. He has Teh and has returned to Unity.
- 38. Whoever has Teh never boasts of it, and so truly possesses it. Whoever has Teh and boasts of it, no longer possesses it. Possessing Teh is to be serene; with little effort much is done and motives diminish. Losing Teh is to be hasty; with great effort much is wasted and motives increase. Possessing Teh is to act out of love without ulterior motive; losing Teh is to act self-righteous with an ulterior motive...
- 49. The good are treated with goodness; the bad are also treated with goodness; this is the goodness of Teh. The faithful are treated with faith; the faithless are treated with faith; this is the faith of Teh.
- 51. Teh sustains all things in existence. It fosters growth, develops them, harbors them, provides shelter. It nourishes them, gives protection.
- 55. Whoever has Teh is like a child: Poisonous insects will not bite. Wild animals will not attack. Predatory birds will not strike. Bones soft, muscles weak, but gripping strongly. Unconcerned about sex yet most vigorous. Crying out all day long but not hoarse. This involves perfect harmony. Knowing harmony is to approach the eternal. Knowing the eternal is to be enlightened.
- 59. With Teh anything is possible. Because anything is possible, no one knows your supremacy. Because no one knows your supremacy, a nation can be ruled well.
- 60. Rule with Tao and evil departs. Evil will still have power, but it will not harm the people. Then not only does evil cease to do harm, the ruler also ceases to do harm, and therefore both possess Teh.
- 66. People are difficult to govern when there is too much knowledge. Whoever rules a country by furthering knowledge is that nation's curse. Whoever rules a country by furthering simplicity is that nation's blessing. To know these two principles is to know the ancient standard. To know the ancient standard is to possess Teh of a certainty. Teh is deep and vast as infinity. It returns us to primal peace.
Of course, interpretation and commentary is needed, but the original is more interesting. 10 almost sounds like a yoga discipline, 49 like core Christianity, 60 seems to suggest that Teh is a skill to cleverly avoid misfortune rather than overwhelm it - and 66 confuses me, especially when an ancient Taoist monk's ground-breaking research is nearly the latest word in malaria treatment. I wonder if the difference between Western "virtue" and Teh is that virtue involves taking evil's punches on the chin and Teh is dodging to one side or stopping wisely short of them? Actually the idea reminds me of the hacker ethic... but perhaps that's absurd. 70.15.114.2 (talk) 04:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- I've never heard of Ganson's translation. Has it been published? Keahapana (talk) 20:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Reversion
Since the "Glossary of Conducts of De" section was unverified and scarcely relevant to de, I removed it. Only two parts (gongde 功德 and bade 八德) mentioned de while the other four (三綱, 五常, 五倫) did not. Moving bade into the Zhuangzi section worked well, but I couldn't find anything useful about gongde (other than Buddhist usages like八功德水 "8 attributes of the Lotus Pond"). If I've accidentally deleted anything germane, please restore it. Keahapana (talk) 21:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
