Talk:Dc Talk

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Contents

[edit] Rap/Rock

I deleted from the History section: "In fact, many music critics point to the title track, "Jesus Freak," as being an important moment in rock history, linking grunge and rapcore for the first time."

I'm a DC Talk fan but this is a stretch even for me. Rock-rap has been linked from the beginnings of hip hop. See Walk This Way by Run DMC and Aerosmith in 1986. No, it's not grunge but Jesus Freak is not any more important because it's grunge+rap.

Saying grunge+rap added to its popularity is fine. I would say anything more really needs some evidence of the music critics saying so.

[edit] reunion

DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHEN THEY WILL START PERFORMING TOGETHER AGAIN???? I WOULD APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH IF SOMEBODY WOULD SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THAT. THANK YOU!! Later!!! User:70.124.132.176 21:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

No one knows if they will, as indicated in the Solo Efforts section. Dan, the CowMan 00:54, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
But do you hope they will? I do. Later!!! 152.163.100.196 15:27, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


I think Kevin Max denied the existence of a reunion tour. Not positive, though... C$ 22:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Favorite dc Talker

Who is your favorite member of dc Talk? I like them all, for different reasons. Please put who you like and why. Later!!! Chili14 01:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I would say Kevin Max. tobyMac's music is pretty awesome, but I like Kevin's voice better. C$ 22:32, 13 May 2006 (UTC)



I LIKE MICHAEL TAIT AND TOBY MAC. IT SEEMS LIKE TO ME THAT KEVIN BROKE THE GROUP UP ANYWAYS. I THINK DC TALK SHOULD COME BACK TOGETHER. YOU GUYS WOULD MAKE IT BIG. EVERYONE LOVES DC TALK.

Toby's my fave but I also like keven's voice alot but not his music but his voice makes his muisc better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.120.142.252 (talk) 21:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't.

Then why would you look them up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.120.142.252 (talk) 21:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

This isn't a forum.--69.55.196.234 02:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not trying to make it one I just don't like people dising any DC talker. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.138.225 (talk) 02:30, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

I would like to ask for pictures for Toby McKeehan, Michael Tait, and the Tait band. I know there was a good picture of Toby a while back, but it had copyright problems. I know that there is a perfectly fine picture of Kevin Max. So we don't need to worry about that. Maybe somebody who is a really good artist could draw a picture of them and put it up so it could be fair use. Just wanted to put that out there. Later!!! Chili14 (Talk) 03:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FA

I am going to get this article to FA status. Whoever wants to help me can gladly do so. Thank you very much.--Chili14 15:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Automated Peer Review

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[edit] GA failing

It's still quite a way from GA. Not a single reference, many sections could be folded back or removed (Both Awards sections, Members ect)

(The Bread 03:23, 9 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Moved comment

Comment by 199.66.3.5 (It was formerly written on the article, but I moved it here..)


In 1989, the group released their self-titled debut album on ForeFront Records. They gained some crossover success when the "Heavenbound" music video received airplay on the BET network. Their follow-up album, Nu Thang (1990), also received attention for its hip hop/pop stylings (a la M.C. Hammer and Fresh Prince).

Something should be said here about their video titled (Rap, Rock, and Soul) that was released sometime around the time of Nu Thang.


Their third release, 1992's Free at Last, was a tremendous success, producing six Christian radio hits. It was notable for its innovative blending of musical genres, combining hip hop with pop, rock, and gospel.



--lovelaughterlife♥ (user|talk) 18:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] New Information?

Should new information be added about the tribute album "Freaked"? 149.166.135.170 18:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe it is already there.--Chili 23:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup?

This article needs cleanup, especially near the end. There's a bunch of "addendum" statements just cluttered on top of each other at the end but there are no transitions. I did add information about their Intermission album from 2000, but many other projects they participated in, such as Addicted to Jesus by Carman and Forefront's Birthday album are not mentioned. Bourgeoisdude 22:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Genres.

I felt the need to add Christian hip hop to the genre listing. Dc Talk is one of the foremost christian hip hop groups from the start. This is even mentioned in the christian hip hop page.

Mmy @ 65.189.245.127 11:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Dctalk.jpg

Image:Dctalk.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 00:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Dc Talk Solo.jpg

Image:Dc Talk Solo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 00:41, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Who does the reprise of Jesus Freak on that album? The dorky, off-key version? Is it one of the guys??? Thanks! Bouncehoper 04:23, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Ummm... I do not know. Will try researching that and letting you know if I come up with anything. aJCfreak yAk 09:18, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

hey Ajcfreak, someone on songmeanings.net just told me it's michael tait. yay mystery solved! Bouncehoper 18:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

Hi. I'm currently working on re-writing the entire article to conform to Wikipedia guidelines - including citing references, removing weasel words, removing content expressing personal opinions, etc. If anyone could help, I'd be glad. Thanks. -- aJCfreak yAk 09:47, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

been meaning to...i shall try at some point.... Bouncehoper 03:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Look forward to collaborating. aJCfreak yAk 09:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

yo! i cleaned and added to the solo stuff. is that ok?

also, i don't think the fan sites are necessary. we already have a ton of links just for the the guys themselves. Bouncehoper 03:12, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! It's heartening to see quite so many others involved in this. :) I'll be continuing to touch-up here and there, whenever I have got the time. Again, thanks to you and the other editors for the inputs. aJCfreak yAk 17:15, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

No prob. I hope it helped a bit. Bouncehoper 02:15, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fan sites?

This is Wikipedia - an encyclopedia. As such, do we really require to list out fansites? If so, what criteria are we using to select which fansites to list? Anybody?? aJCfreak yAk 09:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

i say let's list their personal ones. that's all. Bouncehoper 18:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] to do list, good article

how long have those been up? i would think the article's looking lots better now... Bouncehoper 18:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Okays. But with regard to the excessive usage of FU images, I think we should move the discography to another article and present just a listing of the albums here - much like what was recently done with Jars of Clay. This helps in promoting the article to GA/FA status, IMHO. aJCfreak yAk 07:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

what does FU mean? a new page for discography is a good idea. do you wanna do it or should i? Bouncehoper 16:31, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry bout that! FU = Fair Use. Images which are copyrighted, but are allowed for restricted use... About the Discography, I suggest that you go ahead and do it. Sorry, but currently I'm caught up with trying to clear terrible backlog at articles to be merged. I think I'll be down there for the next week or more. aJCfreak yAk 06:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

ain't no thang, hon. i got it. also, what exactly is the issue with the fu images? too many how? like, there's only a certain number you can have on a page? Bouncehoper 16:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Nope. There ain't no set limit. However, the Wiki-ness of an article comes down if too many FU images are included. This is esp true of a band like dc Talk cos the guys are still alive - so it should be relatively easy to snap totally free photos of them and them upload it. It's not against policies.... Simply frowned upon. Frowned upon greatly. Btw, I'm logging out now. And I won't be editing over the weekend. So any message would have to wait for me to reply till about 14.30 UTC Monday. :) Happy Discography-ing!!! aJCfreak yAk 16:24, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

is it good? and hey, way to be!!! on finding the caucatalk reference...that was a slippery one... Bouncehoper 16:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I know. Last time I re-worked the article, I simply couldn't find the reference. Somehow, dunno how, I found it this time. So chill.... :) aJCfreak yAk 16:40, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

w00t. don't know if we'll find the citations for the bet thing or the public enemy thing....but yay for the article looking better. :-D Bouncehoper 18:46, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article Needs Major Cleanup

I come to find this page and instead of getting good info, I get a fan page. Okay first off Jesus Freak Free at Last the Movie needs some prominance on the page. The movie was a big deal at the time it was advertised and then disapered only to come out direct to DVD.

Second as far as I know their name stands for Decent Christian Talk and also the place where the group formed. Using an attack site to defend is not the greatest source of reliable information to use.

Also this statement is just factually wrong - "After signing the recording contract with ForeFront, the group released their self-titled debut album in 1989. It was one of the first rap albums in the genre of Christian music"

And a section titled Creating Christian Rap is even more wrong. There were plenty of christian rap groups before DC Talk like 12th Tribe and PID, and Mike E and The G Rap Crew who while not as big had the rock rap sound before DC Talk incorporated it.

I'm not downplaying the signifigance of the group, because they were the next band, after Stryper, to make an impact in the mainstream, being overtly Christian. That is until POD came into the picture. But you have to put the group in the proper context. And if anyone remembers the period Newsboys were trying to gain mainstream exposure at the same time.

Also where is a controversy section as the Jesus Freak music video upset some Chrstian groups (CBN for example)?

And statements like these need to go - "The group's fourth album, Jesus Freak, was released in 1995, and it achieved the highest first week sales of any Christian release in history"

and

"Supernatural, released in 1998, was their last all-new studio album. Upon release, the album overtook Jesus Freak to set a new record for the highest first week sales for a Christian release."71.224.110.27 (talk) 07:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi 71.224.110.27... I agree that few of your points are valid. However, the Jesus Freak did set a record upon release. It is a fact obtained from the band's history from the band's own website, before the website was revamped a few months back. If you wish to know, you can check when I added this info in the article history - I added it with the appropriate reference. The same goes for Supernatural's record sales too. These records have since been broken, but they were record-breaking sales for a Christian record at that time. I believe in WP's ideals which state that we need not say that a band/group/album/person is great, but we can let the success of their artistic work/creations speak for themselves. Hence, these statements should stay in the article.
With regards to creating Christian Rap, it is not meant that the group actually created the Christian rap genre. However, they did help mould it in its early stages.
DC Talk is popularly believed to stand for Decent Christian Talk. However, this was a marketing technique utilised by Forefront so that people could differentiate this from the mainstream, secular rap that was out there - this was decent... this was Christian... but this was still talk!
As for their self-titled debut being one of the first Christian albums, I guess that's pure POV with no factual basis. Think that should go.
Please do not mistake my intentions - I mean no offense of any sort. :) And btw, what's the Jesus Freak movie that you're referring to? Ne'er heard of it. aJCfreak yAk 18:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the kind response, (I didn't find it offensive), I mean no insult to the band I just think it would better serve the band if we the page presented the facts more. I corrected my mistake, I meant Free at Last the movie not Jesus Freak the movie.
I think on the subject of Christian Rap it would better to mention that they did what you say, and that is helped propell the genre in Chrstian Music, not created it. I am by far no expert on the Rap, but I was into the genre at one point and had a couple albums. DOC (Disciples of Christ) was a big one for me, and they formed in 1987. And I remember the rap groups that worked with bands like Bride, Deliverance and Whitecross. Most of those rap groups came before DC Talk. For example I did a quick google search for PID and found their formation was in 1985 preceeding DC Talk by 4 years. Ironically they were signed to Forefront.
As for the name origin, I would like to see some proof. It's not that I dis-believe you but if there was a legit link or something that proved it, that in itself would be amazing. Chrstian Music is still a young industry that has a lot of secrets that would be interesting to uncover, and that comes more from my "historian" side because I like to know the backstory - Good or Bad.
But my bigger problem is that the only links are from sites that don't really source their information. The one site is an attack site, and I personally can't believe most of what these attack writers say because they have agendas other then factual information. If you don't know what I mean read the article sourced ([1]), or read [2] These people equate all Christian "ROCK" to mean exceptance of Adolf Hitler's vision. And on top of that the source they quote is another attack article.
Another problem is the other article ([3]) sourced proves one part of the equation, but just because they say it is marketing does it make it so without a direct quote from Eddie Degarmo? I don't think I can believe it yet.
Last thing on term of sales. I guess a better wording would work, mentioning when the record was acheived and who broke it would be better. And I found a link for you if you want to use it - [4]. The reason I brought up this point was because I have to question how big the sales were in comparrision to Stryper. I don't say that out of bias, but up to that point Stryper held the records for most album sales of a Christian band. And in terms of most popular Chrstian bands (Sales wise/Crossover wise) the order would go from, (dare I say) Kansas to Stryper to DC Talk (maybe Newsboys included in there) to POD, and then of course to Switchfoot.
And you have to also keep in mind that DC Talk and Newsboys were hurt by their strong Christian stance. I remember Toby Mac addressing the matter at Creation Festival saying there were things they wouldn't do to achieve bigger mainstream success because of their beliefs. Newsboys, at around the same time, refused to use women in bikinis in one of their videos because of their beliefs. Rotation on MTV, for example, was effected by non-conformity. And also remember MTV was notorious for banning Christian videos at the time, Tourniquet's "Ark of Suffering" being a big one. Michael Sweet's "Aint No Safe Way" getting banned and his questioning of it led to VH1 running a series on Christian Music saying it was inferior to mainstream music, happened at the same time DC Talk was becoming popular.
I must say thank you for the response and now you got me hankering to dig out my magazine collection to verify some of this info. I got some selfish reasons, I could explain if you really wanted to know, for not doing the editing myself but hopefully this will help you and others to better improve this article.71.224.110.27 (talk) 15:56, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. Currently, I don't have much time on my hands - my Wiki-ing is suffering majorly (it has been so for a few months). However, I will look into the issues raised. I've not looked too closely at the sites I used to source the claims in the article. If the site is an attack site, I'll remove the reference myself. Just give me some time. In the meantime, if any of the other editors come across this and decide to plunge in, please - just do it! Also, I'd much rather talk to a person - ever considered creating a username? That leads us to the inevitable question - why not edit the article yourself? Feel free to reply on my talk page if you consider this request irrelevant to dc Talk :) aJCfreak yAk 21:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

Alright I started doing some cleanup. I removed "Creating Christian Rap" because it is unfounded and organized the career section into a timeline presentation. I did it quick so the years could be off.

I also removed the line that said their debut album was the first Christian rap album, again this is completely wrong as their are others who came before them.

I think it would be fair to say they helped the Christian Rap/Hip Hop movement but they didn't create it.

I think the name origin section needs to be fleshed out. If their name was done for marketing then so be it, but I can remember that this was not the only reason for the name. I think Descent Christian Talk is right coming from the debut album song and dc standing for Washington DC but as for marketing I would like to know the truth and not from an attack article.

If there are any problems let me know, or of course do some editing.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 16:55, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

It definitely looks a lot better now. I totally agree with not saying that they created Christian rap. But reg the origin of the name, it totally sounds like something the Christian music industry would do (call me biased, but... ). Since the information is not harmful, I guess we'll leave it that way until we find proper RS. What say? aJCfreak yAk 07:44, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback, I did some more work today. I put the music info in the music section and moved the reunion section to the music section. There was some info on a book in the reunion section so I added it to the book section. I think I got everything better organized and now there is a frame to work with. And so people know I didn't delete any other info other then the creating Christian Rap.
I think now we need a section on the Free at Last movie. It was a prety big deal at the time and I'll see if I can add that section at some point.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 22:21, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Genre

I think there should be more genre's listed like CCM pop/rock and Christian rap. Does anyone else agree?

Actually no. I addressed this subject on another page. Genre's themselves can not come from a viewpoint. It's like animals a dog is a dog, dog has no meaning then describing what the animal is. Rap is a style, or genre, of music. It is void of religion. If we started defining all styles a group plays by their viewpoints then we would have millions of styles. Go to Rage Against the Machine's page on wikipedia, do you see "Political" to any of the styles they play? Why not? They speak about political issues; Right? Naming the styles Christian groups play by their religion allows the double standard that exist to continue. And what double standard am I talking about? There are those that don't want Christian groups to be associated with a style because somehow it makes the style be dumbed down or some other nonsense argument.
And quickly on the subject of CCM, yes DC Talk can be put under the umbrella because it is the industry they work in. All this being said DC Talk is still a Christian group who plays Alternative Rock, Hip Hop and Rap in the CCM industry. Does this make more sense now?
That being said I'm not going to get into an editing war. I think it should changed but there needs to be a consensus on the subject.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 13:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Sure, I started this debate of genres and i'm not even included. This is crazy talk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.146.211 (talk) 21:49, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

And where do we stop in sub grouping genres? Crazy Talk? Explain your side please.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 22:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lyrics to validate the name-claim

Hi. I don't think we should be using websites which do not have the necessary copyrights as references for lyrics. I don't know much about copyrights and such, but AFAIK, this would definitely be a no-no in a Wikipedia article. aJCfreak yAk 13:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey that's fine with me, no big deal I just thought they should be referenced to prove validity. What would be an alright source to pull them from? I think we need them there to show the public perception of the initials meaning. I was correcting an edit someone made that said DC Talk stood for DA Cool Talk. I'm okay with them going away if needed, but just so there aren't any question about the name origin I think it would good to include the lyrics.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 19:00, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
The way I understand WP policies, references from RS are required to source refutable claims. Quoting the lyrics of a top-selling Christian band might not really validate a refutable claim. I think, if we really wanna stick to WP policies, then we should reference the fact that the name actually does stand for Decent Christian rather than quoting lyrics (which are copyrighted) or referencing sources which cannot claim copyright to the lyrics they are displaying, OR, websites which have the copyrighted lyrics. :) But I think, for now, we can just leave the lyrics in there without referencing them. If copyright questions do arise, we can claim fair use, as we are using them to state that the group itself stated that their name was for Decent Christian Talk. What say? aJCfreak yAk 09:18, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
I changed the references. I wouldn't have had a problem if you changed it or anyone else. If they need to go that's fine also. Hope what I did works now.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 12:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hiatus status

I think it's time to have some sort of discussion on the subject and a consensus on the subject of hiatus. It seems like lately we have people editing this section more then others. I honestly feel that the group should be treated just like other groups, such as Stryper. I understand that there is no statement from the band saying they have quit or retired, but isn't there a point where you have to say the group was active for a certain number of years and now they aren't active anymore? There was another group I came across on wiki, and unfortunately slipping my mind right now, that had a similar situation and there in-active years were not put up. Now that is not to say I'm in support of dumping the hiatus status, in fact I'm going to switch the page back till we reach a consensus on the subject. And that isn't to say my position is correct. Whatever the guidelines are on wiki is what should be followed. I just think we need to have something discussed here that will clarify the position that the editors of this page will be taking on the subject.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 12:00, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

- I've read interviews and Dc Talk is my FAVEORITE band ever so I wouldn't get it wrong when I say that they've broken up. You see they said they where on Hiatus in 2000 but in 2001 they anounced that they had quit but, Their have been rumors about a reunion album or tour. And just so someone stops changeing it my dad went to their first ofical concert in 1987 so they did not start in 1988. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.138.186 (talk) 00:55, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

That's great but we need a source to confirm the info. It's important to cite a reliable source or have a consensus on this page about the status of the band. OfficialDoughboy (talk) 01:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Well in 2000 they said they where on hiatus but in 2001 they announced that they had broken up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.82.38 (talk) 23:58, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

That's great but we need an official link to point to so it can't be contested. Please provide one.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 02:01, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually. You need a reffrence saying they are on Hiatus still. I didn't see any reliable sorces saying they are active.And their first album was released in 1988 and they couldn't get a lable, Write all those songs and produce their album in the same year they started. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.148.39 (talk) 16:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually I agree with you that I think they aren't on hiatus but this isn't about opinion. I said it before provide the source that they broke up.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 12:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Edits

Okay it seems that there are people that don't agree with the years on the page and hiatus status. That's great but we need to have references to refer to. DC Talk's self debut was released in 1989, I know because I own it, that's what the insert in the cassette tape says. Now I don't disagree that it could have been released in 1988 but please provide some info that refutes what some of us have known for almost 20 years. If someone disagrees with years maybe it would be better to discuss it here because I know when I looked around on the net myself Amazon was listing DC Talk's self debut having a release year of 1995[5] Original Release Date: January 10, 1995 So please discuss the changes here first because misinformation is out there, even from what appears as reliable sources.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 12:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Never go to amazon for information.They called underoath a pop rap band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.161.128.207 (talk) 21:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)