Talk:Dazed and Confused (song)

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Contents 1 POV in article 2 Hmm 3 Holmes entry 4 I'd like to see something about Page denying that it belonged to Holmes. 5 Dazed and Confused movie 6 Requested move 6.1 Survey 6.2 Discussion 7 Requested move (continued) 8 Fair use rationale for Image:Jakeholmes.jpg 9 Fair use rationale for Image:Led Zeppelin Dazed and Confused.ogg

[edit] POV in article

i have a strong POV in this case, so I wont edit the article directly, but i disagree with the amount of credit given to Led Zeppelin for reworking the song. IMO what they did is <blatant pov>reduce the quality of the lyrics</blatant pov>, then have Jimmy Page noodling away over the outro, put another verse after the outro, then cover the whole thing in strange soundeffects.

"The original idea for this tune came from folk singer Jake Holmes, who had previously written a very similar psychedelic acoustic song"

This implies the Holmes' version only provided a nugget of the Zep song, which is true if you think half an hour of running up and down a pentatonic scale constitutes good song writing, but is misleading given that the whole structure of the song is what was written by Holmes, the rhyme scheme, the repetition of the lyric "I'm dazed and confuse" at the start of each verse, the chomatic riff that forms the majority of the music, the instrumental section from 2:00 in the zep version (just after the bit that sounds like Paranoid (which, admittedly Zep wrote, and a year before BS).

I suggest someone take a listen to the song (available here, probably fair use) and give Jake Homles more credit in the article.

Insist it persists 04:12, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

• You know the argument that this is a Led Zeppelin copy can be immediately thrown out the window by the fact that ASCAP (http://www.ascap.com/index.html), which assigns serial codes on the basis of published songs, did not give the same ASCAP code to the Led Zeppelin title. ASCAP assigns a new number if, in its opinion, the song differs markedly to warrant a separate entry. Jake Holmes was given the code 340119544, Led Zeppelin was given the code 340128276. Note the ASCAP catalogue also lists on its website if the song has been covered by other artists - Holmes has had no versions, Led Zeppelin's has. It is therefore incorrect to say that the Led Zeppelin song is a "cover". I would therefore argue on the ASCAP evidence that this article be spilt into Dazed and Confused (Jake Holmes song) and Dazed and Confused (Led Zeppelin song). Regardless of what Holmes has said though, he has never taken this matter to court. If he strongly believes he should be paid a credit royalty, he has doesn't anything to back up his claim where it matters most. Furthermore the neutrality of this article is questioned when it uses a notorious website as a reference that spends a considerable number of pages referring to Jimmy Page as a "magpie". That to me doesn't sound very neutral or credible. MegX 06:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hmm

Well i dont see where Zeppelin is getting all this credit, you are right about them not needing all the credit, but if you are suggesting that the article should reduce the bands credit completely then it would also reduce the objectivity of the article, Led Zeppelin added their own touch to it, no ones subjective opinion about the quality of the song is important enough to influence these articles.

5:14, 27 February 2006

[edit] Holmes entry

I've done an entry on Jake Holmes, which may alleviate your criticisms, Insist it persists. I don't think the article is POV -- to be fair, Zeppelin did make the song famous -- Holmes' part as a songwriter is worth noting, but it's an interesting factoid, no more, no less. Dazed and Confused makes people think of Zeppelin, not Holmes. -- Palthrow 22:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'd like to see something about Page denying that it belonged to Holmes.

Dazed and Confused

"Dazed and Confused" was one of Led Zeppelin's signature numbers, but this song was originally written by Jake Holmes and included on his 1967 album The Above Ground Sound of Jake Holmes. A 1990 interview with Jimmy Page in Musician is revealing. MUSICIAN: I understand "Dazed and Confused" was originally a song by Jake Holmes. Is that true? PAGE: [Sourly] I don't know. I don't know. [Inhaling] I don't know about all that. MUSICIAN: Do you remember the process of writing that song? PAGE: Well, I did that with the Yardbirds originally.... The Yardbirds were such a good band for a guitarist to play in that I came up with a lot of riffs and ideas out of that, and I employed quite a lot of those in the early Zeppelin stuff. MUSICIAN: But Jake Holmes, a successful jingle writer in New York, claims on his 1967 record that he wrote the original song. PAGE: Hmm. Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. I'd rather not get into it because I don't know all the circumstances. What's he got, The riff or whatever? Because Robert wrote some of the lyrics for that on the album. But he was only listening to...we extended it from the one that we were playing with the Yardbirds. MUSICIAN: Did you bring it into the Yardbirds? PAGE: No, I think we played it 'round a sort of melody line or something that Keith [Relf] had. So I don't know. I haven't heard Jake Holmes so I don't know what it's all about anyway. Usually my riffs are pretty damn original [laughs] What can I say?

[edit] Dazed and Confused movie

Typing "Dazed and Confused" into search leads directly to this page. There is no disambiguation page, and no redirect to the movie at the top of the article.

Is there a reason for this? I would think the movie is even better known than this song.

this song is pretty famous more so than the movie probibly just because its sbeen around longer the good news is you can create a page for the movie and disambiguation page, that was a good movie! -ishmaelblues

It used to lead the the led zep song with links to the magazine and movie at the top, i might set up a DAB page but could a more competant wikipedia please change it so that dazed and confused (led zep song) is the default page again since it is by far the best known use of this title--Ninandnirvana 23:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

[edit] Requested move (continued)

The title of the film was derived from the song, as mentioned by the director in interviews. Does this make a difference? Edelmand 15:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Jakeholmes.jpg

Image:Jakeholmes.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 09:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Led Zeppelin Dazed and Confused.ogg

Image:Led Zeppelin Dazed and Confused.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)