Talk:Dawn raid
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[edit] Is this article needed?
I think this is a rather obvious dicdef - a dawn raid is a raid, at dawn - and the article as it is seems like a rather POV list of arrests that happen to have occurred at dawn. Surely raids at dawn have been used in many countries, for many kinds of arrests, and not just in the UK and New Zealand? And ever since the dawn of law enforcement itself? Brianyoumans 09:04, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'd agree that the listing of particular arrests is not what this article should focus on, and that individual incidents should probably not be mentioned unless they contribute to a broader narrative. But I don't agree that this is a simple dicdef, like "orange socks" for instance. The term refers to a controversial enforcement tactic, with political significance that arises from the nature of its targets. -- Avenue 10:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
-
- I think I would argue that what is controversial here is the targeting of asylum seekers; the dawn raids are merely a tactic used. If they have become a symbol of the campaign, they should be mentioned prominently in any article that covers the issue, and, if this article is kept, it could have links to various examples of dawn raids, including this one. Dawn raids themselves are not controversial, if they are used properly; if a dangerous criminal is captured safely, or a terrorist cell broken up just before an operation, I don't think they are going to get much sympathy over being woken up early by a SWAT team. Even for the asylum seekers, I suspect the fact that they are being jailed and deported is far more significant in the long run than the modus operandi used. And if we remove most or all of the specific examples, what we have left looks like a dicdef to me. Brianyoumans 22:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
-
- I was most surprised to see a list of examples of dawn raids, how ridiculous. The article should explain what a dawn raid is and why the early morning is such an effective time to apprehend someone. Apart from the likelihood of the target(s) being at home at that time, the main reason is the fact that the body clock is at its lowest ebb at around 6am; it is the time when even the most hardened party-goers tend to drop off. EdX20 04:48, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Political application
I don't mean to start a dispute with this, or associate current law enforcement tactics with nasty things, but it's probably worth mentioning that dawn raids have long been a favorite tactic of totalitarian regimes, often the first act of what culminates in a political disappearance. The gestapo was famed for them, as the obvious example, and many others learned from it
-
- I agree wholeheartedly, except that for localised importance held to the phrase. The phrase itself "dawn raid" has local cultural associations and importance. Albeit, Muldoon's tactics at immigration irregularities pales in comparison to the Gestapo use of the same in subjugating a whole section of society in a manner of social control. Nevertheless, the cultural importance of the (social control) tactics, at that time within the culture of New Zealand for instance, was such to promote musical group and later a record label. Does that make it a Kiwi thing or does this page need some input from the people around the wold who have been a subject of this form of terror? I feel strongly enough to want this to be a stand alone article L-Bit (talk) 08:50, 27 December 2007 (UTC)