User talk:Davidruben/Archive 5

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Congratulations! 2 Health Wiki Research - Again ? 3 Australian hospitals 4 ==Please help with Breast Implant article== 5 Breast Implants 6 question re BI 7 Martindale 8 Medicine 9 Ehrlichiosis 10 Biofilms and Sinusitis 11 Biofilm Sinusitis, You might actually read the cites before setting up a straw man. 12 BI complication issues 13 Droliver 14 Happy Holidays!!! 15 TrueHawk 16 Diabetes Institute 17 Mainspace sub-pages 18 Gee Thanks 19 Droliver and Curtis 20 Please help with the breast implant article 21 Pharyngitis and colds 22 Thanks for Your Advice re Implant Article 23 Proposed merge of WP:DRUGS and WikiProject Pharmacology 24 JCI accreditation in Infobox Hospital 25 HDCN links 26 Help understanding how AfDs are decided 27 Continuing discussion on Talk:Birth control#"pregnancy rate" rather than "failure rate" 28 External Links 29 Australian legal status in Template:Drugbox 30 User:TBAmes 31 References 32 Diabesity 33 Notability guidelines 34 Self-citation at Late-term abortion 35 British Pharmacopoeia 36 Revision as of 23:15, 28 January 2007 37 Help over at CAT:CSD 38 Random Smiley Award 39 WP:BRD 40 Pregnancy terminology 41 Fetus 42 Osgood-Schlatter disease

Congratulations!

Congratulations!
It is my great pleasure to inform you that your Request for Adminship has closed successfully and you are now an administrator! Useful Links: • Administrators' reading list • Administrators' how-to guide • • Administrator's Noticeboard • Administrator's Noticeboard for Incidents • Administrator's Noticeboard for 3RR • Your admin logs: • blocks • deletions • moves • protects • uploads •

If you have questions, feel free to leave a talk page message for me or any other admin. Again, congratulations! Essjay (Talk) 02:49, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations David. I'm sure you'll be a fantastic admin. Cheers, Sarah Ewart 02:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations from me as well - crz crztalk 18:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks Essjay & Sarah Ewart, and to Ligulem for nominating me (well done on your first mop nom). I'll get round to thanking all the participants individually in due course - everyone was most polite and I appreciate the sensible comments from those who opposed. I shall, as per my nom, try to be cautious in my use of the new tools, so I shan’t be rushing into anything, but observe the work of other admins and act only having made sure I am fully aware of all the relevant guidelines. I hope I act as carefully, considerately and politely in any admin task that I partake in, as in my previous/ongoing article-space work. Please do comment on any initial admin forays I make - as per comments in the RfA process, I am well aware that becoming an Admin is not just about passing the goal-post of a successful nomination, but will be a continuing process of gaining further experience. For this I shall welcome the support and feedback of others. Again, many thanks to all who took the time to consider my RfA and cast their views. :-) Yours David Ruben ^Talk 03:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

We know, you're a cautious fellow : ) Congrats. Gaviidae 06:28, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Well deserved. Congratulations. --Ligulem 08:55, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

And I'll just add my congratulations as well. Regan123 11:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Congrats on the mop and bucket, I knew you'd make it! Mind that wet floor now... Fvasconcellos 14:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations! Have fun with the tools! If you ever need help, feel free to contact me. =) Nishkid64 15:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations! Well done -- Samir धर्म 08:53, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Congrats! —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-12-17 01:24Z

Super congrats, though I didn't find out about the RFA until now... —¡Randfan! 03:30, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations - I'd certainly have voted for you had I known.--Runcorn 14:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Heartiest congratulations, David! I'm only sorry I have been rather busy of late and was not around to be able to support as well. You'll do a fine job, I'm sure. Happy holidays to you and yours.;-) —Encephalon 14:19, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Health Wiki Research - Again ?

A colleague and I are conducting a study on health wikis. We are looking at how wikis co-construct health information and create communities. We noticed that you are a frequent contributor to Wikipedia on health topics.

Please consider taking our survey here.

This research will help wikipedia and other wikis understand how health information is co-created and used.

We are from James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Virginia. The project was approved by our university research committee and members of the Wikipedia Foundation.

Thanks, --Sharlene Thompson 19:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Australian hospitals

David, congratulations on your successful RfA.

Hospitals in Australia are either public, under control of the state department of health (e.g New South Wales Department of Health), or privately operated by a company or trust, sometimes religiously aligned. Medicare is the federal (i.e Australia-wide) scheme to pay for healthcare. I'm and expat Brit so the best place to ask would be Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board for the details. --Steve _(Slf67) ^talk 07:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

==Please help with Breast Implant article==

Dr. Ruben, you were helpful on the breast implant article, and I hope you can help again.

I am an epidemiologist and head of a research center in the US. I have written numerous peer-reviewed book chapters and medical journal articles on breast cancer, medical implants, and plastic surgery informed consent issues. So, I am concerned that the breast implant article, which used to be NPOV, has become very biased because one man, a plastic surgeon, has deleted everything he doesn't like. His name is droliver.

At one point, droliver's version of the article was locked, and although Samir made it clear that it didn't mean the locked version was necessarily best, droliver has treated this article as if it were his own ever since.

Since you have been on the discussion page of the article, you may recall that several health professionals have tried to revise the article to make it more balanced. Someone (apparenty from Georgetown University) suggested we add several local complications that droliver had deleted. After droliver said in the discussion page that it would be OK to include those few common complications on the implant page, and given the suggestions of several health professionals on the discussion page, I included the language everyone agree to. Then droliver deleted it all without any explanation except to say that info is not necessary.

I hope you can help. The article is very long, with considerable technical information, but doesn't even mention several of the most common local complications. Droliver's justification is that if complications are not specific to breast implants, they needn't be mentioned, but necrosis etc are important complications that are mentioned in virtually every other article on breast implants except this one in wiki. In addition, the "complications" section of the article is currently a misnomer because it includes a lengthy section on systemic diseases, which are not local complications and should be in a separate section. The bottom line is that despite the consensus of several health professionals that the article is too biased rather than balanced, droliver has reverted even small changes. That includes small, footnoted additions of common, well-established complications.

I am patiently trying to make small changes, based on peer-reviewed research, when others agree, but droliver just reverts when he disagrees. As an epidemiologist who works closely with physicians, I have never been in this situation before. When I write books or articles, if there is disagreement we discuss it, we don't let one person with a different point of view delete what he doesn't like. I'd be grateful for your help. Drzuckerman 03:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Breast Implants

Thank you for the level-headed discussion on the talk page. I'm not participating anymore in the BI article. It isn't worth it. Still, I would hate to see it become an advertisement. One point I would like to make is that the FDA specifically talks about rupture as a more common complication - hence, its recommendation for follow-up MRIs at 3 years, and every 2 years thereafter. DrOliver continuallly deleted "rutpure" as one of the more common reasons for reoperation. In fact, the FDA does mention this in the context of the need for follow-up MRI -- espeically since there is little data on the rate of rupture, none past 10 years, and we don't know what happens if a ruptured implant remains in the body for any length of time. To not mention it in this context is dishonest. That is one major reason women have repeat surgeries (and, rupture sometimes affects the shape and aesthetics of the breast). Oh and - I hope you have a Happy Holiday, David. Jance 15:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Rupture rates does seem relevant to fluid fill sacks. This espcially so as part of process of then wondering if implants can cause local or systemic complications (one might presume that non-rupturing should eliminate even the possibility of causing auto-immune reactions, vs ruptured contents having the possibility of causing more problems). I think you are wise to have taken a wikibreak (for your own wikistress sake) from this article. That said there seems to be developing a better structure to discussion and trying to enforce the reaching and respecting of consensus, what with a few admins stepping in (I know you did not like the protection the page underwent for a while, but in the longterm I think that will prove to be decissive for the turn about in the article's development - but a slow, slow, slow process and WP:RfC on both article and editors remains a possibilty.) A few brief points (as above in your more relaxed dewikistressed manner) to the continuing talk:breat implant would not now be inappropriate, but avoid at all costs getting too involved or upset at other editors (wikistress, personal hurt, RFC#Jance etc etc et al) So have a healthy & happy festive season, yours David Ruben ^Talk 20:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

If Droliver continues accusing DrZuckerman, I or others of political agendas, or engaging in conspiracy theories and the like, there will be an RFC#Oliver. Someone needs to step in and tell him to stop it.Jance 16:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

question re BI

Do you think permanent numbness is such a common complication of any surgery that it should not be mentioned? This is very common wrt BI. I was never told this was a possible complication (but it occurred, as with many women I know who have had this surgery). Of course, I was not given any information but that was years ago, and my surgeon lost his license to practice medicine..Jance 16:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Yes and oops. Yes it is a well recognised complication of cutting the skin almost anywhere (and usually at least paritially settles over a few months). Also yes, not specifically notable for any specific operation that needs be mentioned in each encyclopaedia entry. Of course quite different is the process of combining information together to consent a specific patient for an operation - i.e. a surgeon should not just skip past risks by broad headings (eg for coronary bypass grafting the consent is not merely "Of general anaesthetic", "of being on bypass", "of surgical wound risks" and "of cardiac surgery" but a full expansion of each topic). So consent to a patient should include counselling for general operation complications, specific complications of the procedure they are to have done, and any special factors than are specific for them & their individual case. But this is an encylopaedia, a body of knowledge as a whole, rather than isolated essays that are totally self-comprehensive; so items are wikilinked to other pages and a link to operation should hint a large body of background knowledge that is not directly included in this one article.

What is approproiate level of risk disclosure has changed over time, varies country to country, and individual patient expectations. Does one include every possible conceivable risk however remote or trivial, or apply filtering eg 1% for minor points without longterm sequelae, 0.1% for serious risks and 0.01% for life threatening riks; given that this is only a little above the risks of dying that day just for commuting by road to and from the hospital. Other patients indicate they rather their doctor filter the list even more to just likely side effects they might experience and how to manage them, out of a desire not to over dwell and fret about the operation they are waiting for.

That all said, bruising, numbness, pain, infection, scarring are all basic things to cover in consenting patients for almost any incissional operation and that is just for having cut the overlying skin let alone the risks of the proceedure itself ! Sounds as if your consenting was "over-selective" and hardly improves you opinion of the overall process given your subsequent ill health. David Ruben ^Talk 19:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Loss of sensation in BI surgery can be permanent. This seems to be pretty common, in fact. My opinion is that the patient should be informed of known risks, especially something that may be permanent and affect breastfeeding. I daresay that the risk of permanent loss of sensation is greater with BI surgery than with commuting by road to the hospital. My opinion of plastic surgeons has not improved with my experience with Wikipedia. The recommendation for follow-up after implantation was dismissed as "political" and clearly absurd. But I agree that most plastic surgeons are not interested in follow-up. Jance 03:40, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Martindale

Hi David I hope I did right in updating your entry on Martindale - I am new at this and not sure of the protocol. Thanks you for setting up the original version and for your recent amendments. MartEditor 15:10, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Medicine

Hello, I've recently posted an editing-suggestion at the discussion page for the article Medicine, since you're active on that article I thought you could take a look and give your oppinion - it would be most appreciated. The Medician

Ehrlichiosis

No, it is a human disorder as well, the entry for it in Wikipedia is just plain ridiculous, look at the CDC website for a good one. I keep meaning to update WIki because although it does affect dogs its human pathology is more important. The incidence of human Ehrlichiosis 1000 cases per million as opposed to TTP 3-6 pre million, hence my personal belief that it may be underdiagnosed especially because even in fatal cases it is seronegative half the time and because doctors tend NOT to have heard of it!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish you would have kept that in. I had ehrlichiosis and hemolytic anemia after moving into my house at the base of NIsene Mark State Park which in 2003 San Jose State Entomologists found had not only the highest Lyme MIR in all of California 17.8% in adult ticks but also HIGH levels of the causative agents of both HME and HGE Human Granulytic and Human Monocytic Ehrlichiosis (I had HME) up to 13.3% in ticks. In my house a couple decades ago a 16 year old girl named Wendy Ann Hunter died of "peripheral vascular collapse" and meningitis- I got a copy of her death certificate after her mother stopped by our house when we were having a yard sale and told us about her. "This is the last place I remember my duaghter alive." ALSO our babysitter down the street Juniper was diagnosed TTP with a history of Lyme disease,(the preceding is why I care) but her doctor REFUSED TO TEST HER FOR EHRLICHIOSIS!!!

• Safdar N, Love RB, Maki DG.
  Severe Ehrlichia chaffeensis infection in a lung transplant recipient: a review of ehrlichiosis in the immunocompromised patient.
  Emerg Infect Dis. 2002 Mar;8(3):320-3. Review. PMID 11927032
• Modi KS, Dahl DC, Berkseth RO, Schut R, Greeno E.
  Human granulocytic ehrlichiosis presenting with acute renal failure and mimicking thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura. A case report and review.
  Am J Nephrol. 1999;19(6):677-81. PMID 10592363
• Marty AM, Dumler JS, Imes G, Brusman HP, Smrkovski LL, Frisman DM.
  Ehrlichiosis mimicking thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura. Case report and pathological correlation.
  Hum Pathol. 1995 Aug;26(8):920-5. PMID 7635455
• Am J Trop Med Hyg. 2001 Nov;65(5):603-9.
  Tissue diagnosis of Ehrlichia chaffeensis in patients with fatal ehrlichiosis by use of immunohistochemistry, in situ hybridization, and polymerase chain reaction.
  Dawson JE, Paddock CD, Warner CK, Greer PW, Bartlett JH, Ewing SA, Munderloh UG, Zaki SR.
  Publication Types:Case Reports PMID 11716122
  

  In the United States, human ehrlichiosis is a complex of emerging tick-borne diseases caused by 3 distinct Ehrlichia species: Ehrlichia chaffeensis, Ehrlichia ewingii, and the human granulocytotropic ehrlichiosis agent. Ehrlichioses are characterized by a mild to severe illness, and approximately 4% of cases are fatal. Because these obligate intracellular bacteria are difficult to resolve with routine histologic techniques, their distribution in tissues has not been well described. To facilitate the visualization and detection of ehrlichiae, immunohistochemistry (IHC), in situ hybridization (ISH), and polymerase chain reaction (PCR) assays were developed by use of tissues from 4 fatal cases of E. chaffeensis infection. Evidence of E. chaffeensis via IHC, ISH, and PCR was documented in all 4 cases. Abundant immunostaining and in situ nucleic acid hybridization were observed in spleen and lymph node from all 4 patients. Significantly, in 2 of these patients, serologic evidence of infection was absent. Use of IHC, ISH, and PCR to visualize and detect Ehrlichia in tissues can facilitate diagnosis of ehrlichial infections.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by CaliforniaLyme (talk • contribs) 15:35, 21 December 2006

You comment above"hence my personal belief that it may be underdiagnosed especially..."', your are entitled to an opinion of course, and as such open-up discussion on an article and what it does or does not cover. However "my personal belief" counts as original research and thus has no place (irrespective whether right or wrong) in an article under WP:No original research guidelines. Instead one must find WP:reliable sources that give such opinions.

Your discussion above focuses on ehrlichiosis in the US, yet wikipedia is not an Amercican health manual but has worldwide perspective.

The links above I agree confirm that the condition may superficial appear somewhat similar in some cases, but this makes it a differential in certain cases, not all cases of apparent TTP. Also it is not a cause of TTP itsef. PMID 11927032 states "with features of thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura" this is not stating that TTP is caused by ehrlichiosis, just that it has some appearances that appear similar - i.e. separate condition which might coexist on a list of differentials for a given clinical presentation, but they are not being equated as the same. PMID 10592363 discusses "Ehrlichiosis mimicking TTP" and likewise in title of PMID 7635455, so making this a differential in certain circumstances, but not cause.

In conclusion I think any mention of Ehrlichia is something that ought to be outside of main testing section, and in perhaps a subsection dealing exclusively with the local issues (on a global scale) found in some parts of the US. David Ruben ^Talk 02:31, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I've copied above to sinusitis, so that others might comment. Also added merge proposals re Ehrlichioses and Ehrlichioses Mimics TTP artiles (see relevent articles). David Ruben ^Talk 04:03, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Biofilms and Sinusitis

David: I am a metallurgest. I had a pretty good idea that I was seeing a typical biofilm when I looked at specimans from my own sinuses, but what I see is not persuasive because I am not a specialist in the medical feild. Thus I wrote to different people in the the NIH for 3 years asking them to fund studies to inspect tissue removed from sinus surgery for biofilms. When the removed tissue was inspected, the overwhelming majority of CS surgery patients had a biofilm infection, but the medical community at large has no test protocol to detect biofilms. The governing paradigm within the oralangyeal community is that if it cultures are negative and treatment with antibiotics fails, then the condition is autoimmune, or paradoxically an immune deficient condition. Only a well-documented test that puts biofilm detection within the abilities of the clinician will allow patients with biofilm sinusitis to be diagnosed as having an infection rather than an allergy, and receive more effective treatment. Therefore the discussion of biofilms is not only on topic, but it is not hard to see how it will be potentially helpful to sinus suffers if the word gets out sooner rather than later.```` —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Truehawk (talk • contribs) 01:43, 22 December 2006 (UTC).

I've responded on Talk:Sinusitis.David Ruben ^Talk 03:31, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the serotonin syndrome stuff could be eliminated, but I believe the anxiogenic effects should certainly be included as a noted side effect of the medication, despite the fact that is applies to the medication class. I would have appreciated it being there. Michael124 02:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Biofilm Sinusitis, You might actually read the cites before setting up a straw man.

It is pretty obvious that you did not even bother to read the cites. None of the work cited was done on mice.

for example othe titles read.

Bacterial biofilms on the sinus mucosa of human subjects with chronic rhinosinusitis.

Sanderson AR, Leid JG, Hunsaker D. Department of Otolaryngology, Naval Medical Center San Diego, San Diego, California 92134-2200, USA. arsanderson@nmcsd.med.navy.mil [1]

'Bacterial biofilms in surgical specimens of patients with chronic rhinosinusitis.' Sanclement JA, Webster P, Thomas J, Ramadan HH. Department of Otolaryngology, West Virginia University, Morgantown, West Virginia 26506-9200, USA.

[2]

And from 'Chronic rhinosinusitis and biofilms.' Ramadan HH, Sanclement JA, Thomas JG. Department of Otolaryngology, West Virginia University, Morgantown, WV, USA. hramadan@hsc.wvu.edu [3]

The abstract reads

.......... STUDY DESIGN AND SETTING: With institutional review board approval, tissue was obtained from consenting chronic rhinosinusitis patients who were undergoing functional endoscopic sinus surgery. ..........

The patients refered to are not mice.

I know this area is very controversial, but I don't really know why. The slime bugs are there stuck to most of the tissue for anyone to see. Anyone who knows how to do a freeze fracture sample and knows what a biofilm looks like and can hop through the hoops to get approval from the institutional review boards and patient premission to look at the samples.

As for the implications for treatment and management, again read the cites, including

Biofilm formation by Staphylococcus aureus and Pseudomonas aeruginosa is associated with an unfavorable evolution after surgery for chronic sinusitis and nasal polyposis.'

Bendouah Z, Barbeau J, Hamad WA, Desrosiers M. Department of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, Universite de Montreal, Canada. [4]

(BTW mice express a much higher level of vitiman C in their epithieal cells and thus don't get the same crud as primates. So they are not a viable animal experimental model for sinusitis research.)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Truehawk (talk • contribs) 03:14, 24 December 2006

Firstly the above breaches WP:Assume good faith - yes I had read the refs given. The extra issue re mice was a mistake on my part whilst also editing on another article, for which appolgy placed on Talk:Sinusitis at 03:05, 24 December 2006

Secondly please sign talk-page postings as per policy.

If the "area is very controversial" then assertions should not be made as established fact, but rather should reflect the various POVs in a NPOV styling.

I don't dispute biofilms occur, nor that they might be of clinical importance. But the implications of what should be done differently in managing chronic sinusitis is not yet agreed. The section in the article thus seems over definite rather than indicating this is an ongoing evolving body of research whose implications have yet to be agreed or filter through to routine clinical practice... discussion of balance/weight continued on teh talk page. David Ruben ^Talk 02:30, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

BI complication issues

David, I would like for you to view the edit I made to the complication section in the breast implant article. As this is a discussion I have with patients frequently for both reconstructive and cosmetic procedures, I'd submit I'm fairly well-qualified to distill it. Due to not so subtle POV pushing by several parties, this segment of the article is becoming both unwieldly and progressively less useful when trying to present a discussion surgeons would have with patients (and vice versa). Non-specific complications do not merit extended & graphic expansion as what existed in previous versions of this. The areas where we (plastic surgeons) are actively making progress in have to do with the issue of capsular contracture & reducing reoperations. These 2 issues (which are inter-related somewhat)along with better characterizing rupture rates were the lengthy part of the negotiations with the FDA in the American approval of the device. Attached refs to the generic laundry list with an attached FDA figure on primary augmentation (the indication we for the most part are talking about in the context of the article) would seem to address & illuminate much of what currently is taking multiple paragraphs. Droliver 19:44, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

• I've tried to incorporate (in context) some of the more serious complications which are primarily associated with reconstructive surgery with attached refs. while keeping the length of that one segment managable. Also, now being objected to is inclusion of a summary table of the collective systemic reviews that have been performed since the early 1990's. (I think you or Adrian Midgely actually were the initial author of said table last spring) Each of those represents the comprehensive evaluation of the body of literature & science performed by government-appointed panels and they were not beholden to industry in their evaluation. I think this one figure is the single most powerful demonstration which refutes claims that there exists some critical mass of controversy on this issue. It is reflective of international consensus & demonstrates the ongoing reassessment of these devices for nearly 2 decades. Droliver 16:53, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

---

Hi David, hope you're not here and instead are enjoying the holidays. I figured I'd ask here under another BI section than make another one. Dr Ovliver brought up a point about US-centrism as far as what the FDA recommends for stuff. Since you're on the other side of the pond, can you tell me (or the BI editors), does the rest of the world listen to the FDA, or not as it's an American institution? If one country's government makes a drug/medical recommendation, does it affect the other (Western) countries, and should it be in a Wikipedia article? Then again, the US has a lot of influence compared to, say, Romania. What do you think/know? Or even, do you know another editor who is more familiar with overseas reaction to the FDA? Dikke poes 21:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

This is a good question.

Droliver

I am weary of Droliver's accusations of "POV-pushing" and "politics" and his insinuation that only he is qualified to edit the BI article. He even called Dr. Zuckerman a 3rd party. The implication here is obvious. I also do not believe that Droliver speaks for all plastic surgeons. The problem with his characterization of rupture rates is (1) he misquoted the study he himself cited (from which he later backed down), (2) there are very few studies on rupture rate for any design of implant and (3) the FDA has stated (accurately) that there is insufficient data to determine rupture rate. I believe that is or was resolved. Droliver objects to 'mulitple paragraphs' on complications, but he is quite willing to insert redundant charts that are very long and unwieldy (and I will add cherry picked, if you look at the actual studies). The charts are redundant because the same information is stated in text. They are unwieldy because they are so long. They are cherry picked because each one of those study conclusions had additional relevant information which Droliver omitted. Midgely did not choose the text in the chart, by the way. Droliver did. Jance 03:51, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I also would like to know why Droliver is allowed to continue violating WP:AGF by his accusations that Dr Z or I are "pushing POV", "political" or worse? If I said he was POV you know I would be "admonished", and indeed I was when I suggested that he is biased because he makes his living doing this. I have not accused him of anything like this since, but he continues to do so. Why is it acceptable for Drolvier to continue to accuse me and others of bias? Why is it that Droliver is exempt from any code of civility on Wikipedia? Also, why is he the only editor qualified to "distill" the complications? The issue is not the factual nature of the content but how it is presented. Is this not an unacceptable appeal to authority? (I don't know the Wiki TLA for that).Jance 04:15, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

If this does not stop, then I am free to start posting on everyone's talk page and on the talk page of the article and on the med page about Droliver's "not so subtle POV pushing by" Oliver", how how he makes a living by implanting women, how he has tried before to link from Wikipedia to his own personal website. Is this acceptable? If not, then you and others need to tell Drolvier to STOP.Jance 16:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Happy Holidays!!!

Wherever you are, and whether you're celebrating something or not, there is always a reason to spread the holiday spirit! So, may you have a great day, and may your wishes be fulfilled in 2007! Fvasconcellos 16:34, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

TrueHawk

Truehawk contacted me on my talk page about a conflict he was having relating to Biofilm. If this involves you it be helpful if you could just fill me in on the details so that I'm better able to advise truehawk in this matter. Thanks a lot. --Gary123 04:25, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Diabetes Institute

David, I was surprised to see you edit out the link to the Diabetes Health Institute Network. It is free new, non-commercial and focused on self management and monitoring for diabetics. There are no ads or commercial involvements. That's a very helpful link. I've myself found nothing like it. All services besides that one are commercial and incomplete. Looking forward to your thoughts. - Hanna - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.175.65.31 (talk) 03:37, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

There are huge number of site claiming to help people to manage a variety of conditions, but that it itself fails to meet criteria, I feel, for inclusion under WP:External links. ELs are meant to provide a degree of information greater than that which the wikipedia article should contain if it were at featured article status. Hence generally support groups or calender reminders (which is about as far through Diabetes Health Institute Network painfully slow tour as I managed) are poor external links. Also generally better to link to specific pages of information rather than a registration or homepage. So, if you feel I should have a relook at their tour, then fine, please do elaborate on what I failled to wait to be shown :-) David Ruben ^Talk 03:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Mainspace sub-pages

Hey David, I hope you have a nice Christmas. The other night I was poking around in the mainspace and I discovered a page you started earlier in the year at Breast implant/Risks and debate. It was labelled as a sub-page and I just wanted to let you know that you can't make sub-pages of mainspace articles. There's some feature in the software that prevents it and if you try to make a subpage, it actually makes it as an article (see WP:SP). So when searching "breast implants," the page "Breast implant/Risks and debate" came up as its own article. I moved the page to my userspace, User talk:Sarah Ewart/Breast implant risks and debate, for now in case it was worth keeping but I just thought I should let you know. Sarah 08:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Gee Thanks

I guess I should not have asked for your help. You should take a look at what Curtis on NCAHF. However, at this point, I wish you would stay out of any of this. I suspect I know where your sentiment lies, and it does not appear that you can be objective.Jance 09:00, 31 December 2006 (UTC) What exactly are you trying to do? Jance 17:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

It seemed very odd that you went out of your way to open an An/I after one had just been closed. And, there were no on-going reverts, except by Curtis. That still does seem odd to me, and that was what made me question your motives, notwithstanding your previous courtesy. Jance 20:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Droliver and Curtis

David, Are you going to open an AN/I on Oliver since he has been warned about reverting and has done the latest reversion under his IP? Are you going to open an AN/I on Curtis who has just this afternoon reverted NCAHF and has continued to be sarcastic on the talk page?

Or are your admonitions and attempts to block editors a function on whether or not you happen to agree with them? Jance 20:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I thought so. Jance 00:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

It appeared that you opened an An/I on reversions to Breast Implants that primarily focused on me. I note that you did not mention Droliver, his past blocks or your more recent admonition to him about reverting of this article. I also note that Droliver was the last person to revert the Bi article. For that reason, it seemed odd that you did not mention him at all in the An/I, although you went into detail to outline all of my past misdeeds. That is why it still does not seem to pass the 'smell test'. Of course, I can be mistaken. We are all human.Jance 02:37, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Please help with the breast implant article

Moved from userpage by Fvasconcellos 23:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I was away for 2 days, and during that time there was an edit war again on the breast implant article, and it seems that an administrator named Guy protected the article.

Thanks for your efforts to help with the implant article. Like you, I am sick of the edit war on this page. But protecting the article does not seem to work, because one person is basically satisfied with the protected version, and he has no incentive to compromise or negotiate. I have spent so much time carefully negotiating with other editors, Samir, and you, and felt that we had come to a reasonable balance, and then droliver just deletes all the hard work and someone protects droliver's version. In this case, droliver deleted the revisions that had been carefully worked on in the "complications: section, replacing them with a chart that is too small to read, and is also based on just one of the 2 manufacturers and one of the 6 major study populations.

As you probably know, the data on systemic diseases are complicated. I know the research literature very well and would be glad to talk to you about it. Meanwhile, I'm just trying for a more balanced and accurate description of the findings. Can you help by reverting to my earlier version of the complications from a few days ago? It's the one with several additional headings.

I also resent droliver calling me by my first name, which seems to me condescending since he doesn't know me and frequently insults me, and I have previously asked him not to do so.

I hope this is the right place to write to you. It's a little confusing -- so if it isn't the right place, please let me know. Thanks for your help. Drzuckerman 22:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Pharyngitis and colds

Hi David, I noticed you've been involved with the pharyngitis article and saw that you were a GP, so perhaps you could help with the issue I raised on Talk:Pharyngitis: The article does not address the relationship between sore throats and colds. From my experience they seem to go hand in hand, but I'm unsure as to why this is, and my knowledge of pharyngitis is basically non-existent. Perhaps you could add something on the issue to the article?

By the way thanks for all the terrific editing you've done on medical articles, it's great to see someone give up their spare time to share their knowledge like you have. Richard001 08:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for Your Advice re Implant Article

Thanks so much for your help and advice. It looks like Sarah has asked for a straw vote, as you suggested, and so far 5 of the 7 editors who have been on this discussion have supported my Dec 28 version. Dr Melmed and Dr Oliver haven't commented yet. I don't know what happens if a lot of new people express their opinions -- we'll see!

I think droliver is the unsigned person who reverted the article. Sometimes he forgets to sign in. I don't think it is intentional. I don't know what a sockpuppet is.

I know that the protected version isn't meant to be the "best" but each time the article has been protected it has been droliver's version. Then he has no incentive to negotiate changes, because he is happy with it as is. The rest of us politely negotiate and cajole and when the article is unprotected we are still careful not to make big changes so as to not get into an edit war. But, weeks later we are basically exactly where we were when we started (except for the new editor who came in once, and made some revisions which nobody else supports, as far as I can tell.)

Anyway, I appreciate your help and hope this will work out. Happy New Year and a peaceful year to you and the UK! (Not so likely for the US, unfortunately). Drzuckerman 01:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merge of WP:DRUGS and WikiProject Pharmacology

Hi David. I see you're busy with quite a few things right now, mainly the BI article, but I'd like to bring to your attention that a merge between WikiProject Drugs and the newly-created WikiProject Pharmacology has been proposed on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Drugs#WikiProject Pharmacology. I would appreciate it if you could weigh in. Thanks, Fvasconcellos 01:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

JCI accreditation in Infobox Hospital

Hi David. Thanks for your recent fix clarifying the references vs. footnotes thing. I was wondering, does the Infobox Hospital template have a field appropriate for JCI accreditation? Also, congrats on your recent promotion to administrator! -- Aylahs ^(talk) 01:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

HDCN links

Dear David,

HDCN is a major repository of information pertaining to all stages of dialysis. About half of the material is free of charge. You can convince yourself of this by going to the following link:

http://www.hdcn.com/inslidef.htm

It's basically an encyclopedia unto itself. There are approximately 800 lectures in slide audio format posted on the site, and more than 3000 audio lectures.

I suppose the argument can be made that it's like linking to a journal, although all of the content of HDCN is online only and is more multimedia in format.

It is a problem, since most of the content-rich sites on the web are either password protected and require some form of registration, or require a paid subscription.

My main concern about posting links to HDCN, actually, is that the material is not intended for patients, but for doctors and nurses. So I have no problems with not posting it on wikipedia.

I did post different links to different topics, since there are various "channels" on HDCN; there is so much content there, that it is broken up into various pieces.

I personally don't believe that excluding paid content sites on the web from wikipedia is necessarily a good idea, but if that is the policy, that's fine with me. The costs are quite reasonable - for example, one week access to thousands of lectures for $18.00. But if this is the policy, then that's the policy. Just please be sure that this is not something that you have a personal bone to pick about but is actually generally enforced.

John Daugirdas, MD Jtdaugir 06:57, 8 January 2007

Thanks for thoughtful reply - again sorry if I seemed a bit harsh removing the links. You make some interesting points about the HDCN site and raise some wider issues on professional vs patient orientated resources (wikipedia is indeed not a medical textbook). As for links to subscription or partial subscription sites, we do of course wikilink to freely available material on the NEJM or BMJ journal websites, even if most other articles have restricted access - perhaps then specific freely available articles on the HDCN site could be directly linked to. I'm not sure there is a firm policy re links to paid websites, after all any citation to a book will be to a resource that must be bought (discounting book & journal access via a library) - but clearly if there is the choice between appropriate equally good resources of free-access and by-subscription, then the former is to be preferred.

I'm going to copy all this over to the Clinical Medicine Project to see what other editors have to contribute to these sensible points you raise :-) Yours David Ruben ^Talk 20:19, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Help understanding how AfDs are decided

Hi David. I need your help understanding the AfD process. Is it based on the number of votes cast in favour or against, or by weighing the policy issues?

Two articles were recently created by a user who has repeatedly vandalised articles about various minority religious communities. He is using the articles as soapboxes - the titles preclude NPOV. He is now campaigning to have other users - presumably of a similar mindset - comment on the AfD. Hence my question - is it the number of votes or the merits of the case that would count here?

FYI - the articles are Islamic Cults and Aga Khani. Kind regards -- Aylahs ^(talk) 05:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi David - Thanks for your advice and guidance in this matter. I am reassured that the policies and guidelines support a decision based on the three key policies, but I remain worried when I read the AfD discussions, and observe the evolution of the articles and their talk pages. If you care to review the articles, I'd be interested in your comments. Thanks again -- Aylahs ^(talk) 17:08, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Continuing discussion on Talk:Birth control#"pregnancy rate" rather than "failure rate"

Among other things, in this discussion I say: I think we may be beginning to head towards a consensus here. David Ruben, you said "I disagree" above, but it's not clear to me exactly what you disagree with. If you disagree with any of the edits that have been proposed in this discussion, and if you still disagree with them in light of the rest of the discussion, please state clearly which proposed edits exactly you disagree with. --Coppertwig 13:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, since you helped create the BirthControl infobox, you may be interested in the test versions of it I mention in the above discussion. --Coppertwig 03:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

External Links

I was told by multiple editors that the links such as those that I was adding was appropriate for Wikipedia. They are wholly informational and do not even elude to any specific hospital or service. They are merely purchased informational pages. Please reinstate those pages since they were APPROVED by editors.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by TBAmes (talk • contribs) 20:51, 10 January 2007

Australian legal status in Template:Drugbox

Thanks David. I noticed those were missing while fixing MDMA, and didn't even think of asking for them to be added. Fvasconcellos 00:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem :-) It was seeing your fixing MDMA that alerted me to the fact that were additional schedules than just 2,4,6,8. So I went hunting rather harder than I had peviously and found the relevant article describing all of Australis's schedules :-) David Ruben ^Talk 00:19, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

User:TBAmes

Hi. Please see my edit ([5] here). Happy to discuss this detail of this with you there, but I'm posting here mainly to say that I do think you've been a bit harsh on this newbie. I know admins have massive workloads and spammers and vandals are everywhere (tell me about it, I do RC patrol) but I think you could have gone easier on him, even if you're 100% right that the links were inappropriate. --Dweller 11:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

References

David, thank you for you extensive, lucid and most helpul answer to my plaintive cry for help. I will follow through on it, although not tonight because I have just finished a thirteen-hour day and am knackered!--Anthony.bradbury 21:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I have been using as first line in my hypertension clinic, assuming absence of racial incompatibility, a combination of Calcium-channel blockers and ACE/ARB medications for about six years. I should have published!--Anthony.bradbury 21:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Diabesity

Hi David, diabesity was the term-du-jour a year back in GI circles for the metabolic syndrome. There's some 30 or so pubmed references that use the term. I think it should probably stay as a redirect? Hope all's well -- Samir धर्म 03:11, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Notability guidelines

I do not know if you'll be interested in this, but I'm hoping you can at least point me in a new direction. I've recently started readings some of the Articles for deletion pages, and I noticed that, in a significant minority of cases, the authors of non-notable articles simply did not realize Wikipedia had a notability standard for inclusion. Even in today's AfDs, there is already at least one example Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The day after... (band).

I believe that if the "new article" screen in some way let editors know that not all topics are considered encyclopedic, that some amount of non-notable articles would stop being written. And hopefully some amount of notable articles would assert that notability, so they would not unneccesarily go through AfD or other processes. I posted this idea at the village pump and at MediaWiki: Newarticletext but got very few responses. Any suggestions for where to take this proposal to generate discussion? Lyrl ^Talk _C 17:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Self-citation at Late-term abortion

Hi, Davidruben. The same user who proposed the redefinition at Stillbirth recently cited himself (see the e-mail listed on his userpage ) in Revision as of 08:46, 24 January 2007 at Late-term abortion. I believe this constitutes a COI and NOR concern, so I reverted the edit, but, if I was in error, I would appreciate it if you could let me know. I've also asked GTBacchus, but, input from more than one editor would be truly appreciated. Thanks! -Severa (!!!) 10:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your input. My main concern was that Writ is a legitimate source, and, thus, up to Notability and V standards (it's not exactly like citing a piece self-published on a blog). I understand that COI and NOR allow self-citations in some cases, but the context in which the citation was being used, to support a novel definition of "late-term abortion," seemed a stretch. -Severa (!!!) 13:47, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

It looks like a lot to go over at Talk:Stillbirth, but I'll give it a shot. Would you mind giving Talk:Late-term abortion and Talk:Beginning of pregnancy controversy a look if you have the time? I think more perspectives could be used at the latter, and a reiteration of what you said on my talk page at the former. Thanks. -Severa (!!!) 15:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

British Pharmacopoeia

David,

Thank you for your extremely helpful notes and links regarding the edit, I have attached below an edited version which I hope addresses most of the points you have raised. I would be extremely grateful if you could indicate any other edits you feel are necessary to make the article an acceptable Wikipedia entry.

Published annually, the British Pharmacopoeia (BP) is a collection of quality standards for UK medicinal substances. It is used by individuals and organisations involved in pharmaceutical research, development, manufacture and testing. Pharmacopoeial standards are publicly available and legally enforceable standards of quality for medicinal products and their constituents. The Pharmacopoeia is an important statutory component in the control of medicines which complements and assists the licensing and inspection processes of the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) [1]of the United Kingdom.

Pharmacopoeial standards are compliance requirements, that is, they provide the means for an independent judgement as to the overall quality of an article and apply throughout the shelf-life of a product.

Legal basis

The British Pharmacopoeia is published for the Health Ministers of the United Kingdom on the recommendation of the Commission on Human Medicines in accordance with section 99(6) of the Medicines Act 1968 and notified in draft to the European Commission in accordance with Directive 98/34/EEC. The monographs of the European Pharmacopoeia as amended by Supplements published by the Council of Europe are reproduced either in the British Pharmacopoeia or in the associated edition of the British Pharmacopoeia (Veterinary). In the Pharmacopoeia certain drugs and preparations are included notwithstanding the existence of actual or potential patent rights. In so far as such substances are protected by Letters Patent their inclusion in the Pharmacopoeia neither conveys, nor implies, licence to manufacture.

History

The regulation of medicinal products by officials in the United Kingdom dates back to the reign of King Henry VIII (1491–1547). The Royal College of Physicians of London had the power to inspect apothecaries’ products in the London area and to destroy defective stock. The first list of approved drugs with information on how they should be prepared was the London Pharmacopoeia published in 1618. The first edition of the British Pharmacopoeia was published in 1864 and was one of the first attempts to harmonise pharmaceutical standards between different countries, through the merger of the London, Edinburgh and Dublin Pharmacopoeias. A Commission was first appointed by the General Medical Council (GMC) when the body was made statutorily responsible under the Medical Act 1858 for producing a British Pharmacopoeia on a national basis. The 1968 Medicines Act established the legal status of the British Pharmacopoeia Commission and of the BP as the UK standard for medicinal products under section 4 of the Act. The British Pharmacopoeia Commission continues the work of the earlier Commissions appointed by the GMC and is responsible for preparing new editions of the British Pharmacopoeia and the British Pharmacopoeia (Veterinary) and for keeping them up to date. Under Section 100 of the Medicines Act, the British Pharmacopoeia Commission is also responsible for selecting and devising British Approved Names (BANs – see below).

Since its first publication back in 1864 the distribution of the British Pharmacopoeia has grown throughout the world. Used in over 100 countries, Australia and Canada are two of the countries that have adopted the BP as their national standard alongside the UK, and in other countries (e.g. Korea) it is recognised as an internationally acceptable standard.

Content

The current edition of the British Pharmacopoeia comprises six volumes which contain nearly 3,000 monographs for drug substances, excipients and formulated preparation, together with supporting General Notices, Appendices (test methods, reagents etc) and Reference Spectra used in the practice of medicine, all comprehensively indexed and cross-referenced for easy reference. Items used exclusively in veterinary medicine in the UK are included in the BP (Veterinary).

Volumes I and II_________Medicinal Substances

Volume III______________Formulated Preparations, Blood related Preparations, Immunological Products, Radiopharmaceutical Preparations Surgical Materials Homoeopathic Preparations

Volume IV______________Appendices Infrared Reference Spectra Index

Volume V______________British Pharmacopoeia (Veterinary)

Volume VI______________CD-ROM version of the British Pharmacopoeia, British Pharmacopoeia (Veterinary) and British Approved Names

The BP is available as a printed volume and electronically in both on-line [2]and CD-ROM versions, the electronic products use sophisticated search techniques to locate information quickly. For example, pharmacists referring to a monograph can immediately link to other related substances and appendices referenced in the content by using 130,000+ hypertext links within the text.

Production

The BP is prepared by the Pharmacopoeial Secretariat working in collaboration with the BP Laboratory, the British Pharmacopoeia Commission (BPC) and its Expert Advisory Groups (EAG) and Advisory Panels. The development of pharmacopoeial standards receives input from relevant industries, hospitals, academia, professional bodies and governmental sources, both within and outside the UK. The BP Laboratory provides analytical and technical support to the British Pharmacopoeia. Its major functions are: Development of new pharmacopoeial monographs – the laboratory undertakes the development and validation of qualitative and quantitative test methods for new BP monograph specifications and refines and revalidates test methods for existing BP monographs.

British Pharmacopoeia Chemical Reference Substances (BPCRS) – the BP Laboratory is responsible for the procurement, establishment and maintenance of BPCRS. The catalogue currently contains nearly 500 BPCRS, which are needed as standards for monograph tests in both the BP and the BP (Veterinary). Detailed information regarding BPCRS is available on the BP Laboratory website [3].

Guidance

Detailed information and guidance on various aspects of current pharmacopoeial policy and practice is provided in Supplementary Chapters of the BP including explanation of the basis of pharmacopoeial specifications and information on the development of monographs including guidance to manufacturers.

Availability

The British Pharmacopoeia is published by The Stationery Office.

British Approved Names

British Approved Names (BANs) are devised or selected by the British Pharmacopoeia Commission (BPC) and published by the Health Ministers on the recommendation of the Commission on Human Medicines to provide a list of names of substances or articles referred to in section 100 of the Medicines Act 1968. BANs are short, distinctive names, for substances where the systematic chemical or other scientific names are too complex for convenient general use.

As a consequence of Directive 2001/83/EC as amended, the BANs, since 2002, may be assumed to be the recommended International Non-proprietary Name (rINN) except where otherwise stated. An INN [5] identifies a pharmaceutical substance or active pharmaceutical ingredient by a unique name that is globally recognised and in which no party can claim any proprietary rights. A non-proprietary name is also known as a generic name.

There are equivalents in many other countries, such as the United States (USP)[7] and Japan [8], and the World Health Organisation maintains "The International Pharmacopoeia" [9].

The British National Formulary[10] contains information on prescribing, indications, side effects and costs of all medication drugs available on the National Health Service.

[edit] See also Pharmacopoeia The International Pharmacopoeia

[edit] External links British Pharmacopoeia Commission, publisher of the British Pharmacopoeia

 This pharmacology-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. 

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Pharmacopoeia" Categories: Pharmacology stubs | Pharmacology | Pharmacy

Vallenderm 12:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:15, 28 January 2007

«Blog sites are generally inappropritae external links, unless teh article is directly about the website itslef - see WP:EL»

Wow! your fast. I didn't even have the time to figure out if my editing was appropriate. I wasn't aware about the blog sites restriction.

alaincloutier@netzero.net Alain

David, I am also a physician. Since 1995 I have been working with medical content on the web. The reason I add those links is because I believe they really can be of help to other users. Also, they were written by physicians and not medical students.

Help over at CAT:CSD

Hi, and congrats on your promotion! Per this discussion, I'm dropping a friendly note to some of the recently-promoted admins requesting help with speedy deletions. I am not an administrator, so if you don't feel comfortable diving into deletions - or if you need more info - please don't come to me, but I'm sure that Cyde Weys would be happy to guide you if you want to help. Any help is great, but I'm sure that Cyde and others would deeply appreciate it if you could put the page on your watchlist and do a bit of work there on a regular basis? Maybe weekly? Thanks in advance! Oh and if you're already working away on CSD please disregard this message; it's not meant as a slight against any hard work you're already doing. Cheers! Anchoress 18:27, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Random Smiley Award

--TomasBat (Talk) 13:38, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

WP:BRD

Is not an essay, and in fact is one of those pages that defies the categorisation scheme devised by Radiant et al. (See discussion on talk page).

Pages in the project namespace do not need to be tagged. Would you consider removing the tag?

--Kim Bruning 01:49, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, actually... I probably should revert in this case. Or perhaps... Oh I know! ;-) --Kim Bruning 01:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

If "defies the categorisation scheme" then is this not included in Category:Wikipedia essays opening criteria of "articles in the main namespace but categorised for their status, not for their content (e.g. uncategorised articles, unwikified articles, stub articles, etc.)." ? David Ruben ^Talk 01:56, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

The concept is that this page describes a current practice as best as possible. None of the current categories really covers it. Putting on an essay tag suggests people might try to edit the page at random or some such, which definately would be a bad idea here :-P --Kim Bruning 01:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I entirely accept your points re "people randomly edit a somewhat touchy method" or (as revised after edit conflict) "which definately would be a bad idea here ". So ?substitute in the essay tag and then remove the request to edit further the article? Otherwise, and my less favoured option (but fair game under BRD) is to revert the edit - but I do think some form of well-recognised header (?are these boiler plates) clarification is useful. David Ruben ^Talk 02:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, there's no requirement to tag pages. But some people apparently can't help it. ^^;;. I've now added a tag Radiant came up with, just to see how it looks. I'm not sure I quite like this particular tag. But an interesting experiment to try, perhaps. :-) --Kim Bruning 02:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC) Stands back and tries to admire the new look from a distance. Worries about being a bit WP:OWN about the page though.

Don't like new tag as much - what I had in mind was editing essay tag:

This is an essay. It is not a policy or guideline, it simply reflects some opinions of its authors. Please update the page as needed, or discuss it on the talk page.

Shortcut:

To:

This is an essay. It is not a policy or guideline, it simply reflects some opinions of its authors. Please discuss it on the talk page.

Shortcut:

I'm worried I might be edit conflicting, but I need to catch some sleep and wanted to say so before I did. Please be WP:BOLD and place your tag on the page, it might look great! (though beware, people have removed or altered tags on there quite often!) :-) --Kim Bruning 03:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh but then... I did say be bold, I know. But then... this article doesn't just state a personal opinion, so much as that it describes a process people actually run into in the field. (Which I'm about to point out to someone, in fact [6]). Nice to mention it's not policy or guideline too, but that's not really necessary either, not to mention confusing: "If it's not a policy or guideline, should we really use it then?" -- um dude, you don't so much use it as trip over it. And why discuss it on the talk page? Per WP:BRD or per Wikipedia:Consensus, be bold and edit it!

Okay, that was useful (for some definition of useful). Now I'm left trying to think of pages on which {{Essay}} would actually still be useful... %-/ --Kim Bruning 09:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Oi, while we might not quite have an agreement on this, and while I appreciate you taking this to talk first, well, wikipedia has full revision control. Be bold already. Let's see how it looks :-) --Kim Bruning 11:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Since you seem to be having some issues with WP:BOLD ;-) , I've gone and put the tag up for you :-P

To be honest, seeing it at the top of the page, I'm going... "hmmm no... that's not really right." (See above for reasons why).

But now at least the tag is up and we can look at it. Any ideas how to modify? I'll leave it up for a little while.

--Kim Bruning 00:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I think it looks good. PS not being rude re not being bold and posting it myself, but had a hard day at work and in process switching home computer over to a new beast with Vista - except wont run my current AOL software nor will my previous pay-as-you go dialup work either .... so struggling a little to get internet access :-) David Ruben ^Talk 03:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear! Sounds like hard work. Good luck with that. *quietly offers you a Knoppix CD to ease the pain*.

Hmm, as for the tag... that might still take some work, but now we know! --03:41, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Pregnancy terminology

Hi, David. An editor recently moved the article "Fetal development" to "Prenatal development" and change "gestational age" to "menstrual age" in a lot of articles, including Fetus, Fetal development, and Gestational age. Both of these terms struck me as uncommon and non-standard so I was wondering if you could perhaps clarify which usage is standard. Thank you. -Severa (!!!) 04:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

ThanksDavid Ruben ^Talk 03:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Fetus

I saw your helpful edits to fetus, and was wondering if you could give a third opinion regarding the article. I feel that the structure is a bit repetative and redundent. I would like to combine "Size and physiology" and "Anatomic development" into one section called "Fetal development". It seems odd to find the size in one section, and the gestational age and timeline in a completely different section. Things got too heated for me on talk, so I have removed myself from the article for a bit, but wanted to run the old discussion by you. Thanks for all of your good work.-Andrew c 06:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Osgood-Schlatter disease

Just because you do not yet know what causes OSD, does not mean that no one else does. I would be more than happy to discuss OSD with you. It may well be enlightening

The proof of the pudding is in the eating:

Hello Gary, All I can say is THANK GOD FOR OSCON!!! My daughter is an 11 year old gymnast competing Level 7, and this being her second occurrence of severs. Many of the Ortho doctors I have taken her to do not understand that during season "there are no breaks". She was in a tremendous amount of pain. Her coaches telling her to suck it up and me as a mother seeing her child in all that pain was killing both of us. So after icing after meets and practices and still reducing practice time it was still not enough. I decided to do my own Internet research and I am so pleased to have found your product. I believe it was about 2 weeks that the pain did start to reduce. She still had the pain so I bought an ankle sleeve with a heel insert sewed into it (it is call a Cheetah, purchased from the 10.0 catalog a gymnast catalog). That helped with the pounding to the heel during practice. I also purchased heel inserts call Heel Seats. At day 30 after practice she has stated she has no more pain. We will continue to do the 2/day treatment for another month to make sure she will be fine for her State Competition. I have already recommended the product to another gymnast at the gym and she is on her first week of taking the product. I think it may take her a little longer to feel the benefits, but I keep telling them to be patient it will come! I forwarded your pamphlet to our coach for other gymnast that may require the benefits of Oscon. Thank you; Sherri S., Streamwood, IL 2/21/2007

Mr. Nelson, I apologize for not recognizing the purchase. This purchase was money well spent for our son's comfort. We can't thank you enough! I've already called to reverse the dispute, so sorry for the inconvenience. It was nice speaking with you. All of your hard work has helped so many children, it must be very gratifying! Thank you for your wonderful supplement. As I told you on the phone, our son's pain was keeping him from P.E. and caused him great pain on the downhill side of a 2000 elevation hike, where he had to use two hiking sticks and was leaning so heavily on them that he had blisters on both hands! After your supplement he has resumed P. E. and looks forward to trying out for the track team. He also recently completed a 10 mile hike over rugged terrain with his Boy Scout troop, pain free! We will happily recommend this supplement to anyone we encounter with this type of affliction. Gratefully, Connie C., King City, California, 2/13/2007

Gary Thanks, this is a second order following advice given by you over Xmas period. My son had a bit of a relapse after a period of inactivity and had to go back on full dose. He is great again now but letting him stay on full dose for a while, more for his mental state of mind than for his legs. Will drop him down to 1 a day in near future. Thanks for the advice and great product. Doug L., Thornton Cleveleys, United Kingdom, 1/28/2007

Hi Mr. Nelson, This will be our second bottle of the vitamins. I spoke with you a month or so ago about my son, who has osgood-schlatter and ischial apophysitis. The knee strap really helps his knee and the vitamins have reduced his pain tremendously. I would not have believed the vitamins would have helped, but they have, and I am pretty skeptical when it comes to stuff like this but my son was having so much pain and no relief with any treatments from physical therapy, etc. I decided to try the Oscon. Everyone is happy--especially him. He's 15, 6'4" and a starter on the JV basketball team. Our physical therapist has asked for info on them so I am giving him the web address. Thanks again, Mary Lou Mc., Brookville, Pennsylvania, 1/22/2007

Gary,

Thank you for the Oscon. Yes, I would like to give you some feedback and ask information of you. I ordered this for my 13 yr. old son who is involved in comp. soccer. I am a sports medicine physician and I cover our local high school athletes as well as many patients involved in many kinds of sports. I also have 7 sons involved in sports, 4 of whom are still at risk for these types of problems (O.S., apophysitis, etc.) and I treat many young athletes for these diagnoses. As you know, this is very common and can be sidelining for them. I believe Oscon helped my son a lot, though admittedly I was treating with the standard things as well, but I am sure his recovery was shortened and improvement considerable after we started Oscon. He had been dealing with it for 2-3 mos. without complete relief and now is doing much better. I would then like to ask if you will send me some information about Oscon and can I purchase some in larger numbers of 1 month supplies at a reduced price for my patients. I would also like some more to have for my sons and/or for recurrence. Thank You, Dr. Todd F., Utah. 1/17/2007

  P.S.  If you need a "distributor"  or if I can be of any assistance I would like to participate. I was at the frustration point with my son as soccer is his passion and I believe that Oscon was the turning point to allow him to play again.

Hello Gary My name is Kim Blackman, my daughter tried your product at the end of last summer after a VERY difficult year in gymnastics. Earlier last year she had Sever's disease, which was treated successfully with traditional methods including RICE as well as physical therapy. Not long after that her knees began to really hurt her. Her competition season was marked with many injuries due to her knees as well as many scratched events. As camp nurse last year for Camp Woodward in Pennsylvania, I had the opportunity to dispense Oscon to a young gymnast whose story was oh so familiar to me! When I asked her about the product she raved about it. At the end of the week I approached her Mom about it and she encouraged me to try it. Well, we did! Last September we started it, My daughter required two courses, but she did see improvement after only a week or two as was reported. After the two courses she was close to 100% better! She went back to full participation soon after and has been 100% better this year! Thank you so much for your product, without it, I truly believe she would have quit the sport! feel free to post my testimonial! I have recommended your product so many times to gymnasts as well as soccer players! Sincerely Kim Blackman Colchester, CT., 1/13/2007

Gary, The first bottle worked like a charm. My daughter can finally run and jump without pain again. Thanks so much Julie W., Otsego, Michigan, 1/11/2007

Thank you for your response. The recurrence is about 4 months after he finished the full month of 60 tablets. He has grown quite a bit in the past year and past few months. It took about 2 weeks for his knees to get better during the first bottle and close to 4 weeks for minimal pain when running. He had been in severe pain for months so we were very pleased with the results. Lisa C., Edmond, Oklahoma, 1/6/2007

Well, I have to tell you that I was skeptical. I ordered a bottle of Oscon out of sheer desperation. My daughter had Sever's. The pain had been getting worse over the entire competitive season. Our orthopedic was insisting that I pull her out of gymnastics for 8 weeks. Her gym coaches were insisting that this was a bad idea. She started Oscon 1 week before the state championships. By the end of the week, all of her pain was gone. She competed with flying colors and no pain. It has been four weeks now and still no sign of Sever's. The most interesting part of it all is that she is eight years old and had never taken any pill. The first three days, she had trouble getting them down. But after she realized it was working, she took the initiative and began reminding me she needed her "heel pill". I'm so glad we found this product! Thanks! Amy S., Midlothian, Texas, 12/29/2006

Gary, Just wanted to drop you a note to let you know that my daughter's knees are much better! She never stopped going to her gymnastics practices, and she said that the new straps definitely helped immediately. Also, just as you said, after about 5 days her knees started to feel better. Now, after almost 3 weeks, they barely hurt, and she is back to doing her regular strenuous tumbling, etc. She has been letting other girls use her knee straps, and I have given your web site to several moms -- a few said that they were going to contact you. I will continue to spread the word...... after months of pain, with no relief, we are believers! Thanks again for returning my call, especially on a Saturday, and for all of your help! Jackie G., Southport, North Carolina, 12/22/2006

Gary, I wish to give you some feedback. My 13 yo daughter had Severs and plays at an elite level of tennis and predominantly on hard courts. She could not train for extended periods without severe pain. She has been taking the Oscon for a month now and the pain is gone. We have also reduced the number of hours on court, ice the heel after play and she has been working regularly with a physio. We are all very pleased with the outcome. From your notes below, it seems that we could reduce the dosage to 1 per day. I look forward to your further advice. Regards, Philip K., Buderim, Australia, 11/30/2006

Thank you for this product. Our son has benefited tremendously from it. He suffers from Osgood-Schlatter, and is now playing high school basketball. Last season, he could barely make it up and down the court. He's now captain Any interaction with antibiotics (e.g. Keflex)? He's also been hit with strep throat. Thank you. Cathy S., Fremont California, 11/29/2006

Dear Gary, My 13 year old boy is extremely talented in track & field, and has been frustrated with not been able to compete this season due to Severs. After three weeks of taking Oscon, and seeing a physiotherapist twice a week, he is almost pain free. He has been able to run sprints and hurdles, with hardly any pain, and has just been selected in the State team, to compete in the Nationals in hurdles. I am so glad I came across your website, and in desperation, decided to give Oscon a go. My son is just about to finish his first bottle, and I have ordered another one, so he will be able to compete in the Nationals without any problems. I just wanted to say thank you very much, and you may use this on your website. Kind Regards, Raine Mitchell, (Melbourne, Australia). 11/22/2006

Dear Gary, I purchased your product Oscon, in September, for treatment of my 12yr old son's Severs Disease & Osgood Schlatters. I am pleased to report that his symptoms decreased significantly after just 1 bottle of Oscon, (2 tablets daily). I have now reduced the dosage to 1 tablet daily for the remaining contents. Oscon has enabled him to return to all his sporting activities, painfree! I would recommend Oscon to any parent who has a child suffering these conditions; it has certainly worked for us! Thank you Kind regards, Lynne T., Tumbi Umbi, NSW. Australia, 11/20/2006

I have used Oscon for years off and on for my now 14-year-old, soccer-playing son (I just ordered two more bottles), and have recommended it to others. Without exception, we all have had excellent results. My son also has used your braces with similar success. I'm wondering if Oscon works generically on inflammation, such as my shoulder bursitis, or if it possibly could be site specific to the knee. I can't imagine how it could be site specific, since it must work systemically, but I'm curious nonetheless. Thanks for your excellent products. David M., Santa Monica, California, 11/12/2006

Callum is 13, a runner (4m47secs 1500m under 12) but most passionate about football (soccer). He excells at most sports at school although small for his age. He began with OS in January and within a week could hardly walk. We visited a private Physiotherapist who failed to diagnose OS despite me suggesting it. We spent a lot of money in a short space of time whilst he hooked him up to microwave and infra red machines. The NHS were not particularly concerned and glibly told us he would grow out of it by the time he was sixteen and told him to rest until then. I bought OSCON but stalled for a while because I didn’t want to trust the word of someone selling something on a website. I finally convinced myself they were okay after speaking to a chemist who represents the royal Pharmaceutical society. He told me they would not harm him even though the rec. daily dose of vitamin e was way under what is in OSCON. Meanwhile doctors were non committal hiding behind the fact there are no clinical studies. My searches on the net led me to attempt to read some university papers but as I am not a chemist they proved to be very hard work. For those who are sceptical or cautious about taking OSCON they will want to know from independent sources if there will be side effects and the biggest sceptics will not be satisfied by testimonials that could have been written by anyone.

 I can only say that I am glad that I eventually took the plunge because pain subsided within ten days full mobility did not return until just after three weeks but because of my dallying it was by then March. At the same time we did get him to see a Physiotherapist who gave him some stretches to do as his quadriceps were very tight.
 During May he had a very successful Football trip to France in an international competition near Paris, playing and scoring against boys who were 1992 birthday year, he was born in 1993. There was no sign of any knee problems. He won three 800 metre races against schools from nine towns. I was confident the problem was resolved. However in late September he pulled up with knee pain in a game of football

and has been resting since. We ordered more OSCON and are three weeks into this present batch. He walks well but says it hurts to run on at present so I have just ordered another batch of 60.

 There is a huge need for your product because for teenagers like my son sitting still is almost impossible. I always check his school books and there is a marked deterioration in his work since he has been out of sport.
 Thanks for coming up with OSCON. I still think there is further work to be done, such as clinical trials convincing doctors to spend some of their budget on OS and understanding the role of physios/stretches in the rehabilitation of sufferers.

David G., Manchester, United Kingdom, 11/8/2006

Hi Gary We have used Oscon for the last 6 weeks and our son's severe Sever's Disease has really improved. He has been taking Oscon twice a day and we are just about to order some more to ensure our son's progress continues. However, we are anxious to establish if there are any long term side effects of this supplement if he continues to take this twice a day for further (third) month. ans.:No long term side effects have ever been reported in thousands of cases. Also, whilst you say we could take the dose down to once a day, he has responded so well and we are reluctant to cause him to regress - do you find that taking the dose down to once a day can be detrimental? ans.: Not detrimental at all, as long as the pain was controlled by the 2/d regimen. 1/day is the “maintenance” or “preventative” dose. Look forward to hearing back from you. Regards Caroline A., Olveston, United Kingdom, 11/7/2006

Sir, Many thanks for your two emails dealing so fully with my question regarding long term safety. The students selected by audition for Ballet training all have the criteria described in your first note regarding characteristics of individuals susceptible to apophysitis. You will appreciate that for us this is a problem of the majority rather than the minority. Having worked for twenty-five years as both a staff and guest teacher in major schools in Britain, France and Japan and relied in that time on the traditional treatments, rest, physiotherapy and ice, the rate of attrition was still appallingly high. Indeed some students never recovered satisfactorily. Although previously believing that Osgood-Schlatter and Severs were the possible culprits there seemed no reason, from the obtained advice, not to accept that while it was possible to alleviate the symptoms they were not fully treatable. I obtained parental permission for an experiment in the school after satisfying myself that the formula was safe. I must confess that my using Oscon was an act of desperation with little or no expectation as to its efficacy. After a month of use we are seeing a complete return to training with a marked improvement in performance standards as the pain apprehension is removed. For you, who have worked with thousands of athletes under these circumstances for many years this will come as no surprise, whereas I, being new to this, am beginning to see the hope of an unexpected light at the end of a dark tunnel and for that I am very grateful. My congratulations for your research and the apparent solving of an intractable problem inherent in Ballet Schools for years. Kindest regards, David Picken. Director of Academy. RBS Dip(PDTC) Diplom D`Etat(reconnue) ARAD, LISTD. MA.

I wanted to thank you for the website and the cure. Morgan, our 12 year old daughter, plays travel softball, travel basketball, travel soccer and tried field hockey in middle school for the first time in the fall of 2006. For a couple years, she had complained intermittently about knee pain. It was nothing major. However, as you might imagine, the kid was busy this fall as all of her sports converged in October. Fall softball tournaments, soccer season, basketball practice, and the end of the field hockey season. She began to complain seriously about her knee. Remembering my childhood friends having this experience, I told my wife about Osgood-Schlatters. My wife began her research and found your website. We read other testimonials and gave it a shot figuring it is a natural supplement. We received the Oscon and brace around October 15. Today, November 3, Morgan is virtually pain free. When she was in pain, she remembered to take it daily. She now has to be reminded because the pain is gone. Jeff & Anita, Jamison, Pennsylvania, 11/3/2006

Hi Gary,

   My 12 year old son ended up with osgood schlatter during soccer time, his coach suggested Oscon and had some left over from his son.  My son tried it and within a few days to a weeks time, was feeling much better with the pain...he was even having a hard time just going down stairs...firm believer in Oscon and thankful for our coach's opinion...also epsom salt baths help immediately!!  Thank you for everything...

Ellie A., Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 10/31/2006

Hello Gary, My 12 year old daughter has Osgood Schlatter's and began taking Oscon one month ago. Although her knees did continue to have discomfort there was definitely a decrease in pain after approx 3 weeks. She plays competitive tournament softball where her main position is as Catcher. We just finished a tournament this last weekend where she caught 6 games straight and I can honestly say she was completely pain free for the very first time! She had no complaints and did not have to ask the coach to put in a sub for her behind the plate to give her knees "a break". She was able to play back to back games and help lead her team to the Championship! We were very pleased! We believe it is the Oscon that has made the difference for her and have decided to order another bottle and continue her on the therapy @ 1 pill per day. If we notice any pain returning, should we step it back up to 2 per day for the second month? Is this a safe dosage to continue for consecutive months? Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for making Oscon available, it truly works! Sincerely, Mary H., Roseville, California, 10/30/2006

Hi Gary,

   Thanks, received order on Wednesday, my son started taking it that day and was able to play football Saturday and said that his knee hurt a little but compared to last Saturday when he was crying on the field because he was hurting so bad, he actually came off the field this weekend smiling and I just want to say thank you for a great product!!! At first he didn't want to take the pills but after his game this weekend he's like mom is it time to take my pill? He wanted me to tell you thanks and ask you this question, he is wondering if Oscon will make him stop growing???? (answer: Not at all!)

Thanks again, Vivian S., Oppelo, Arkansas, 10/24/2006

Hi there thank you for your great product, people here didn’t believe this would work but my 10 year old son who does swimming, football, little athletics, high jump and other sports could not stand the pain from running and jumping his Osgood Schlatters had caused. I had ordered the 2 bottles off you and after 2 weeks had felt no knee pain and we continued his 2nd bottle 1 tablet a day and he is still enjoying all his sports without giving up any of them. Thanks Sharon O., Lisarow, New South Wales, Australia 10/17/2006

Gary - Thank you for being so prompt! This is my son's second dose. The pain is mostly gone, but acts up when he is playing basketball. This is why I decided to continue treatment with the 2nd dose and add the strap. My son is 15 and very active. We fully believe in your product and are glad we found it! I just wish the Dr.'s would tell you about it rather than saying he just has to stop growing! Plus - I love that its not medication, but nutrients! That is very important to me! Thank you! Ms. Bo B., 10/5/2006

Gary, just to give you an update on Jacob. The weekend prior to us getting in touch with you, Jake had a tournament in which he played one full game during which he started having knee problems. He started the next game, wearing a brace and made it about half way through. The next day he played but was very gimpy and sat out a portion. Jake is one of the players that never sits and is never subbed so we knew he was hurting. He sat out practices until the Oscon shipment arrived. Within 3 days of starting the course of treatment, He felt almost as good as new and started practices again. We couldn't believe how quickly it helped. During practice and games he is back to normal! After, if he feels sore, he will ice his knees. That pain may be normal. Oscon has turned what could have been a miserable season into "Play as usual". We are thrilled and are spreading the word! Thank you!! Aaron B. (Jake’s dad) Silverdale, Washington 9/24/2006

The product seems to be working on my daughter. She is very athletic and has noticed a reduction in pain. She has not had to ice her knee in a week. She is 14 and noticed pain last year during basketball. She is playing volleyball now and hopes to have no pain by the time basketball starts in December. I would like to order another bottle. Thank you. Shelly B., Sheridan, Montana, 9/21/2006

Hi Gary - I have been ordering Oscon for my 13 year old son for at least 5 months now. We started the Oscon about March or April of this year. Our son, Rocco, is a passionate, elite, travel ice hockey player who would never give up his hockey nor stop his physical activity despite the pain in his knees. He competes at the highest level in both roller and ice hockey throughout the continent. In fact, even though our actual home is in Los Alamitos, California, we have temporarily relocated to Detroit, Michigan where our son was recruited to play ice hockey. We also have a 20 year old daughter who is on a full-ride academic and soccer scholarship at Oklahoma State University. When she was about our son's age, she also developed osgood Schlatters and had it for about 6 months. Nearly every girl on her elite travel soccer team also developed the disease for a period of time. She has no repercussions from the disease and still plays soccer to this day. The disease had caused Rocco to walk like a "little old man", slow and deliberate, and he had a lot of difficulty climbing and descending stairs, amongst other things. After starting the Oscon back in March or April, I saw marked improvement in his condition over a period of time. His walking became more natural again and even the swollen, large, bumps under both knees even got much smaller. The Osgood Schlatters pain had caused his beautiful skating stride and speed to appear to be laborious, forced, and awkward. It was easy to see the improvement after taking Oscon, because after a period of time, his fluid, beautiful skating began to return, and his speed and stride kept improving, and are now back to normal. His complaint of pain also lessoned over time, and he would only complain of pain in his knees when he underwent strenuous and lengthy competition or practice. In fact, during the month of July, Rocco competed in 3 different age groups in the 3 largest national roller hockey tournaments in the world. Nearly every day, for about 3 weeks, he had 2 to 4 roller hockey games a day. Even despite this demand on his body, he played consistently well, his speed and skating were excellent, and he rarely mentioned that his knees were hurting. He ended up winning 4 national championship titles and one national finalist title in The AAU Jr. Olympics, North American Roller Hockey Championships (NARCH), and TORHS Nationals. During the AAU Jr. Olympics, he was named to the "All-American" Team, and he also earned MVP in TORHS Nationals and "High Scorer" in NARCH. He even had a small article written about him in Sports Illustrated for Kids - see above attachment. Just recently, I noticed that dry land activities, like strength and conditioning for his ice hockey, and soccer, which he is currently playing for his school, cause him more pain than playing hockey. I am sure it's because of the running and jumping, etc., associated with them. Unfortunately, he is determined to keep his training regiment on course for his team, so resting his knees is not an option. So, in the meantime, we keep using the Oscon, give him ice baths, and continue to pray and trust God for his complete and total healing and restoration. I just wanted you to know our "praise report". We are thankful that we happened upon your website after doing a Google on Osgood Schlatters. We appreciate your work and passion to help kids during this awfully painful growth period of their young lives.

Sincerely, Susie Grimaldi Little Caesars AAA92 Team Manager susieg23@earthlink.net (562) 754-7022 www.eteamz.com/littlecaesarsAAA92

My son has almost used up his first months supply of Oscon and we can't believe the improvement!! He was unable to participate in any physical activity and now he is playing football and competing in games with very little pain. He has three 2 hour football practices a week and games on Saturdays and is also fully participating in PE at school. We are so pleased with his results. Even his doctor is very impressed. Thank you for giving him back his freedom to be a kid!! We just ordered his second bottle to take once a day to keep him active. Thanks again! Sincerely, Lydia B., Woodland, California, 9/19/2006

Dear Sir, My 15 year old son has just finished his course of treatment and says he has no discomfort anymore, having had a problem for approx the last 12 months. During his course of treatment he was also having physiotherapy on his troublesome knees along with acupuncture to treat his problem. Not sure whether the Oscon worked? Or the physio? Or a combination of both, but my gut feeling is that the Oscon helped his recovery most, with the added benefit of having the physiotherapy. Hope you find this useful. Many thanks, Rod F., Oldham, United Kingdom, 9/19/2006

Gary Nelson, Hi my name is Beth T... I live in Jacksonville Fl. I have twin boys 12 years old; they are very active in soccer. Approximately 3 to 31/2 months ago they were diagnosed with Osgood-Shatter. They are both growing very fast and with the sports 4 to 5 times a week they were in severe pain. The doctor told me there was nothing I could do but to take them out of soccer and rest their knees plus ice. I immediately got on the internet to research this disease. I did not even hesitate ordering the Oscon because I am a firm believe in herbs and vitamins. I just want to thank you because my boys have not missed one game or practice and for the last 3 to 4 weeks they have been pain free. My question is how much longer do they need to take the Oscon; they both still have the knots and I don't want to rush things by taking them off too soon but I don't know if it is good for them to stay on the Oscon although I don't think there is anything in it that will hurt them. Oh by the way, we have 2 more boys on our team that are now on Oscon because of the boys having such great results. It truly is wonderful. Thanks again. Beth T. 9/19/2006

We are finishing our first month of Oscon. Thank you. Thank you. This stuff is amazing. My 13 year old daughter has suffered greatly with Osgood-Schlatter for three years. She was ready to give up on all sports. After 2 weeks on Oscon. She is now playing soccer and running cross country without any pain. She calls Oscon her miracle pill. It truly has been for her. I just reordered another bottle. I don't want to ever go without it again. Thank you so very much! I am recommending it to all of her friends and coaches. It seems many kids are suffering unnecessarily. If only physicians knew how wonderful this Oscon works for children. Patricia S., Fairmont, West Virginia, 9/13/2006

Gary: Thank goodness for Oscon!!! I got it for my 11 year old granddaughter and she is now pain free. She takes karate classes and was having a really difficult time. Now she's better than ever. I wish we could have had this 20 years ago when her mother and uncle needed it. Thanks again. Carole S., Danielson, Connecticut, 8/26/2006

Hello Gary, Bronwyn from New Zealand here. I ordered Oscon for my son which arrived on the 9th August he has severs disease. We have had Slade to a podiatrist several times and to our own G.P. had X rays and anti imflam medication which has done no good; this has been over a period of 18 months in which Slade has been in a huge amount of pain. Slade is a very active sporting 11 year old who was unable to walk for days after a rugby game this was very debilitating for him and us to watch him go through this and not be able to help in anyway. We heard of your product through another Southlander who had been watching Slade play rugby and asked if he was injured. We told him of Slade’s complaint and he had a son with the same problem. He kindly passed on your email address. Slade started taken the medication the same day it arrived and it honestly has been a god send. He is a totally different child who is not struggling to walk or keep up with his friends. He is in no pain and much happier in himself. I will highly recommend this product to anyone who has a child in this situation, and I thank you so much for giving Slade some comfort and enjoyment back into his childhood. Thanks again, Bronwyn Evans and the entire family for that matter Invercargill, New Zealand, 8/23/2006

Hey Gary, Just wanted to drop you a quick note and say that the OSCON has worked on my son’s Severs Disease. It has been about a week and a half and he started feeling much better after a week or so. We are so excited that he is able to play football (and walk) with no pain in his heel. Thanks again for your help. I have forwarded the OSCON information to two other players on my son’s team that suffer from Severs. Brian G., Tustin, CA 8/22/2006

When I first did a search for Osgood schlatters on the internet and saw your product I thought...yeah, right! It's a scam! I thought for $22 it was worth the gamble. Am I ever glad that I gambled! My son could hardly run last year during soccer and had to watch a lot of the games from the bench. He was going up and down stairs on his seat. A year after taking the Oscon he is first in sprints and in the starting lineup for soccer. I am just about to order another bottle to make sure he doesn't run out! Thanks so much for giving my son back his soccer and basketball career in high school! Jeni S., Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, 8/22/2006

I have to say THANK YOU! My son was suffering so much, we had taken him to a sports medicine doc, who put my son on sport restriction as well as restriction at school, (no stairs, etc) and eventually into a full leg brace. After literally 4 months of this treatment, he still was not better and my son's frustration level was beyond belief. He plays goalie for his soccer team, and during the season he had to sit out the majority of it and when he did try and play, the pain he experienced was just not right. Well, I began researching and I found you! I ordered two bottles for him and he began to take it immediately - and literally within days he was finding relief. He has finished the second bottle about three weeks ago, and is experiencing a bit of discomfort when he kneels - so we have ordered the third bottle. His case was a severe case of Osgood Schlatter's Disease and very hard to treat. I think that all sports doctors should be aware of this treatment! It was because of one determined mother trying to relieve her son's pain that I found out about OSCON! Thank you so much for creating this! Bree D., Spring, Texas, 7/30/2006

Gary, Just wanted to let you know that the combination of the Oscon and the strap has had an immediate effect for my son (11 years old). He started taking the tablets on Tuesday evening (July 18, 2006). I had him wear the strap and jog a small lap to see how his knee felt on Wednesday evening or Thursday to see how the strap would work and he said that it wasn’t even sore when he jogged. I know his Osgood Schlatter was caught early but call it a miracle or coincidence or just the combination of the oscon and the strap working but I’ll take it. He has been able to play in his baseball tournament which started Sunday July 23rd. It looks like he’s back to his peak form in making cutting moves to get the ball and running the bases. Before that, the prior 2 weeks, he couldn’t even jog without his knee hurting. Haven’t tried having him run without the strap as I don’t want to jinx it. I will probably wait until this week’s tournament is over to see how it is without the strap. I will continue to have him finish the month supply. Should he get a recurrence, or get it in the other knee, I have a 2nd bottle on order and will be ready. Thank you for all your help and with the info on the website. Lori D., Honolulu, Hawaii, 7/24/2006

Dear Gary, Your Oscon is one of the best success stories I have ever seen. My son, who is 16, plays basketball on an AAU team in North Carolina, after his regular High School season. He was in such pain for the last six months we tried straps, sports medicine Doctors, Physical therapy, nothing touched it and he was coming up on the State Championship in so much pain he could hardly play. That's when I ordered Oscon, 2 weeks before the State Championship. Within 5 days he could jump again and with the start of the tournament...no pain.....believe it or not...no pain. He's been off to a basketball camp in Ohio since, played 30 games in three days no pain...I truly can't find the words to thank you. So many kids could really benefit from your discovery... Thanks, Robby D., Mocksville, North Carolina, 7/18/2006

Hi, Gary~ Just a short note to let you know that Taylor's OS symptoms have just started to come back again after nearly a year of wonderful success following 2 1/2 bottles of Oscon. It has not impacted her activity in gymnastics yet, but one of her knees (both were affected last time around) is swelling and very tender after her practices. We're ordering again to start another round of Oscon before it becomes immobilizing. She's only 12 1/2, and I don't see the gymnastics activity going away any time soon, so I'm guessing we may have to deal with these symptoms for a few more years. Practicing 16-18 hours a week takes it toll on a kid's body, especially when they have OS, so I'm so thankful for the help we've received from you and from Oscon. Donna H., Bruceton Mills, West Virginia, 7/18/2006

Hello Gary, The order arrived on Tuesday, 4th July 2006. Today it has been 2 weeks that my son of 11 has been taking Oscon and I have nothing other than good things to say about the product. When he started on the medication, he had reduced his amount of sports activity down to one rugby practice session, one game of rugby and some bike riding every week. After only 7 days, he had added one game of basketball and 2 hours of intensive training to his sporting regime. He tried using the OS Strap’s only once but, he seems to find them either too cumbersome or perhaps it has something to do with the image. Not sure? Admittedly, after each session he still experiences some discomfort and pain but in his own words, “Mom, at least I can walk by myself now”. He is a different person again, he is happy and content, he is back in the position whereby he can dictate the amount of sporting activity he wants to do, not his knees – he is one of those children that goes to school for the sport, it just so happens that he has to put up with the academics to be able to stay at school. As a parent, I say thank you from the bottom of my heart. It’s good to have my son back again. Best regards Leslie-Anne, Melbourne, Australia, 7/17/2006

Dear Mr. Nelson I thank you so much for sending me Oscon. It is the only reason that I can run and just get around with out pain. I will advise it to all my fellow athletes for their Osgood-Schlatters disease pain. I cannot express my gratitude to you for helping my knee heal. I am half way through my 2nd month pill bottle and my bump is practically gone. I have a question though, is it normal for my knee to be tight in that area after I run for awhile? Sincerely, Travis B., Odessa, Texas, 7/13/2006

Rec'd the Oscon shipment yesterday, thanks Gary. What a great product! It is the only thing we have found to significantly help the pain of Osgood Schlatters go away. It's amazing. Thank you so much! Toni S., Duncan, BC, Canada, 7/13/2006

Thanks a lot for the Oscon. I’m 14 years old. I started to develop OSD when I was 13. It’s been a year that I have had it. I used to be an elite runner for my age. I came in 7th place at Nationals until I got OSD. It was horrible not being able to train and I was coming into my freshman year at high school and didn’t do as well as expected. I saw Oscon when I first got OSD. I read through it and thought it was a fake. My family members who are physicians told me don’t take any pills just rest and ice and I did that for a year and no improvement. I just recently ordered Oscon. It has been 4 days and I already feel better than I have ever in my life. Thanks a lot. I couldn’t recommend any other thing. I can’t wait to get back into training after the 30 day course. Once again thanks a lot. Chris w., Columbia, Maryland, 7/12/2006

Hi Gary, Just writing a quick update. My daughter was diagnosed with Osgood Schlatters earlier this year and has had two courses of Oscon. By the end of the last one she was having no pain and finished the last half of the bottle at one per day. Thank you so much for your candid and enlightening information and email discussion. I admit that I have not read all of your technical detail but the results speak for themselves in my opinion. That she had such immediate and dramatic response to your Oscon is remarkable, and my husband and I would like to say thank you so much for your dedication to treating and relieving this condition. Clearly you have helped many children throughout the world with this treatment so please accept our sincerest thanks. When I was in the initial stages of researching OS, I looked for testimonials from Australians as I wasn't sure that I could access Oscon in Australia and was keen to find someone here that I could discuss their experiences of the treatment with. Therefore, should anyone be looking for someone in Australia to discuss their recent experience with the Oscon treatment I am more than happy to make myself available, just send me an email. Thanks again Gary and all the best to you and yours Dianne Marshall, Newcastle, Australia 7/10/2006

Thank you. This stuff is a life-saver. My daughter begins using her second bottle...pain has stabilized, although not gone completely it never gets any worse as long as she wears her brace. She played 7, 70-minute soccer games over a 4 day period and the pain never got worse...this after not being able to walk after running for 10 minutes. She is looking forward to running track again and hopefully breaking her own school record next year in the 1 meet she was able to compete in. Anyone that has OSD I have told them about your product....thank you for allowing my child to continue towards her dreams!! Take care... Rich P., Conroe, Texas, 7/2/2006

Hi Gary Just want to thank you so much for making my daughters life pain free!!! She is an Irish Dancer who is nearly 14 years old & has suffered with terrible heel pain for about 18 months and was diagnosed by a biomechanic as having severs disease & would have to look at giving up the dancing which she loves. Irish dancing puts an enormous amount of strain on the feet & she would come home after dancing crying & in agony. I'm so glad that I searched the internet and found your website, and had the courage to give Oscon a try because 3 weeks after taking it she now only gets twinges in her heels, and has started to dance with a smile on her face as she has no pain! She still has physio weekly to stretch the muscles in her legs, but what a difference Oscon has made. Just re-ordered another months supply to make sure she is totally pain free. Thank you again from one very happy mother! Penelope H., Chesterfield, United Kingdom, 6/21/2006

Gary, My son is doing great and asked me to purchase one more bottle "just in case." Football season is about to begin. You should be receiving an order from Joe Shuffer...we were at assessments today and he started to tell me about the painful bump under his son's kneecap. Boy, do I feel like an expert now! You've done a good thing for the kids by making this available!!! Thanks again... Jill S., Carlsbad, California, 6/17/2006

Gary, I rarely take the time to compliment a company for providing the services they claim and we expect as consumers. However, I feel compelled to let you know that our son Jordan, has seen drastic improvement with his knee pain. He is almost finished with the first 30 days, but as you've stated, the pain dramatically reduced between the 5 and 10 day mark of taking the Oscon. Your product, time and efforts have made a tremendous impact, not only on our son, but our family as a whole. We thank you and will certainly recommend this product in the future. Thanks Again, Buddy B., Harker Heights, Texas, 6/14/2006

Gary, My daughter has been using the Oscon and about 4 days after beginning treatment she felt well enough to play in her district soccer finals. She did have pain but had one of her best games of the season scoring both of the teams two goals, something was working. At this point she clearly notices that while there is some pain while active the pain does not linger after exercise as before and she is not bothered by stairs and even walking as before between periods of knee stress. As soon as she finishes the 30 day supply we will re-evaluate and see if another month would be beneficial. Based on her progress do you have any recommendations? We have been approached by a number of people asking about your product and have passed on your information. Thanks, Tom H., Ada, Michigan,6/13/2006

Hello, Thank you for sending the supply. My son needed it and he says it's better now. Elly de Visser, Noord-Holland, Netherlands, 6/7/2006

Just want you to know that your product RAWWWWKS! 18 months ago we started our sons on the product...the 11 year old had Severs and the 14 year old Osgood. The results were outstanding. I have ordered again for the younger son who is showing signs now of Osgood at age 13. I had this as a kid and had to cease all sports in the 8th grade...no more soccer, basketball, or skiing...could only continue on swim team. Sure wish this was available back then. Thanks again! Bill B., Golden, Colorado, 6/5/2006

Just thought I would let you know that after taking Oscon for a month and a half, my daughter managed to go to Disney in Florida for 2 weeks with no heel pain!!! We were amazed and couldn't believe what a difference it has made to her. Before this she could only walk for 10 minutes before she complained of pain. Thanks for the help Trudie W., England, 6/1/2006

Hi Gary, Just a quick note to let you know that our son Matthew has been on your products since they arrived. He noticed a marked improvement within a couple of weeks. Improvement to the extent that he now insists he does not need his knee brace – which of course we prefer him to use. We have just started the second bottle of Oscon . From your experience will I need to order more when this bottle is finished or do you recommend we take a break in the routine? Also I would really appreciate it if you could send us some more of the pamphlets on Osgood-Schlatter disease and Oscon. I would like to pass them onto my doctor who I know has patients with the same condition. He is an amazing doctor and I am sure would be happy to recommend this product based on our success. Our address again is: Debby S., Levin, New Zealand 5/24/2006

So far..so good. My son Josh has been on the Oscon for 3 weeks now. It was about a week before he could say that the pain was noticeably less. The bump is still present but does not hurt as much when pressed on. He has been kicked there since we started the Oscon and there did not seem to be any recurrent swelling or pain. He has suffered with this for about a year or so now. I'm glad to see that this may work. Greg W., Farmington, New York, 5/22/2006

Greetings, Thanks for our speedy first order. We are about 3 weeks in (I think)... My son's pain is greatly reduced, eliminated completely on most days, but when very active a bit of pain. We are absolutely thrilled with your product. If you can believe it we still don't have a "diagnosis" yet from the x-rays of OS from the MD - he's been on holidays! But I'm positive that's what it is....I'm going to give him your brochure.......he's open minded thank goodness. This will be the medicine of the future.... I'm sad to think of all the kids in pain who could be helped by your product. Thank you, Rita in Stirling, Ontario, Canada 5/18/2006

I am really impressed with Oscon; I never thought my son would have any relief from his knee pain except to stop all sports activities. Thank You so much. What a great product!! Valerie M., Old Forge, New York, 5/15/2006

Gary,

I don't know if you remember talking to me last month about the Oscon. My son had a hard time taking it and you told me about the peanut butter thing. Then my husband called you and spoke to you and now he is swallowing his two pills at dinner and it's working for him. I just wanted to thank you and tell you that he is almost back to normal. It's been just about a month since he started taking the Oscon everyday and the last week or so, he has improved greatly. I am thrilled and wanted to let you know. I also really appreciate that you called and asked why I didn't order the Oscon when I ordered the other products. It opened up the discussion and changed a kid's life. We are on bottle number two now. How long should he continue to take it? Thanks again...Sodie will be 12 in August and very athletic. He is grateful that we found you! Thanks...please feel free to use us as a testimonial. We believe! Best Regards, Jill Johnson., Senior Vice President, Jill@Traveltrust.com , Carlsbad, CA. 5/12/2006

Gary~ I just got a phone call from a mom in California with a gymnast-daughter suffering from Osgood's. She said that she has spent significant time on the phone with you, but she was still hesitant as to whether or not the Oscon really works. I told her our story, and she'll probably be ordering. Please feel free to use our story! I'm happy to receive phone calls from skeptics (I was one at one time!), and help to turn them around to get them to try the product. Just an update on our situation......... Taylor went through two full bottles at the regular dosage. We were still having some sensitivity and minor swelling, so we did a third bottle taking one capsule every other day for the third month (so we still have just a few on-hand). Taylor doesn't have any problems now....she still has the tell-tale bumps on both knees from the Osgoods, but no problems or symptoms. She had a wonderful season and set quite few gym records for high scores this year. She did repeat her Level 7 season since she wasn't able to tumble much during her first time around last year, and we're proud to say that she was the All-Around State Champion for Level 7 in her age group again this year. She'll be moving on to Level 8 now. During her first Level 7 season (December '04-March '05), we had to water down her floor routine with only the simplest tumbling passes due to the Osgood's......then we finally discovered your product after the season was through. Taylor only tumbled one or two passes two days before a competition and never tumbled during practice due to the Osgood's. She had to settle for modified conditioning while everyone else worked floor. Despite her pain and extreme swelling, she was able to take the state championships in floor, vault and beam and also took the AA that year. This past season she repeated Level 7 since she didn't spend much time learning new skills during her 8-9 month Osgood's bout, but she had a bunch of Level 8 skills in her routines and her knees were never an issue. She repeated as the AA state champ and is a stronger gymnast. We no longer ice after practice and no longer apply heat before practice. Taylor also no longer wears ANY knee braces at all. Other than the bumps, you'd never know that she almost had to give up gymnastics due to her extreme pain and swelling in both knees before taking Oscon.

~Donna Donna Herto, RR4, Box E4C, Bruceton Mills, WV 26525 304.379.2909 dherto@hotmail.com

Mr. Nelson, My name is Marsha Riders and in March 2006 I ordered your product for my 12 year son. He was suffering severely from Osgood-Schlatter Disease. I had read information regarding your product Oscon. Let Me Tell You!!!! I would not have believed it if I hadn't of tried it! Within two-three weeks of my son using your product he back to at least running again, not quite back to 100% but pretty darn close. Within that fourth week he was back to his normal running speed. Let me tell you a little about my son. He is an avid soccer player, perhaps the best in his age group in our community. When he began complaining of his legs really bothering him, I tried everything I could of, Ibuprofen, Tylenol, mentholatum rub, hot packs, cold packs even took him to the Drs and she stated to keep doing everything I was already doing and he would be fine with in a year to 18 months. Both he and I were almost in tears because he would be basically out of service and he just couldn't live with that idea. I found your product on line read about it and decided to give it a try. OH MY GOSH I am so sold on your product. I am telling every one I know about it. I have had calls from acquaintances and gave them information on your Oscon, have not heard back from them yet but I am waiting hear from them to see if they are sold on it! Thank you so much for coming up with Oscon!! Marsha R., Port Orchard, Washington, 5/2/2006

Hi Gary, My daughter is feeling so much better, thank you! She has taken it two times a day and she is pain free right now. We will continue with Oscon once a day. Her "bump" is the size of a quarter and it has been very painful. Thank you for Oscon! I wish I had known about it for my older daughter!!! Karen T., Cota de Caza, California, 5/1/2006

Just want you to know how thrilled my neighbor is with the results for her granddaughter..... She started the pills on a Thursday and the pain was relieved by Saturday afternoon in time for her Soccer Game ..... And she has had no pain since.... You have a satisfied customer, that is for sure, and my neighbor is a nurse and so is another daughter.... I am sure they will pass the word along some more.... Thanks for letting me know about your product so that I could pass the word on.... It works..... And my neighbor and her daughter and granddaughter are all pleased... Love, Doti Trayhorn, Troutdale, Oregon 4/28/2006

Hi Gary!

The product has worked wonders! There has been a noticeable improvement since he started taking the Oscon, however, he is still experiencing quite a bit of discomfort. Since he has only been on the treatment for 30 days, I think we should continue with it for at least another month and hopefully it will improve further. Unfortunately, I think he may be one of those cases that experience a higher degree of pain and inflammation (in both knees). The braces are working out well and they seem to help too. This affliction has definitely affected his activity levels and his degree of ability and mobility and we're hoping that it will not permanently affect his progress in the sport. Thanks again for your help and advice! Regards, Linda E. Carlisle, Ontario, Canada 4/26/2006

The Oscon seems to be working great. She has stopped complaining of knee pain at games.......... Do you know why if Oscon works this well, pediatricians only recommend RICE and quitting sports? I am just curious since it does seem to work amazingly well, but nobody around here has ever heard of it? Thanks, Moira H., Clackamas, Oregon, 4/19/2006

Thanks. Symptoms have improved immensely. Not gone, but much more manageable than before. Best thing we have found. Toni S., Duncan, British Columbia, Canada 4/12/2006

Gary

Thank you. We had huge success in January with Oscon and as often happens when things start to improve significantly, we forget to take our medication. Andrew, my 12 year old who has Osgood Schlatters is nowhere near as bad as he was in 2005, but we just have the odd niggle and some days with sore knees. So I thought I would try to keep the dose regular for a couple of months. My sister's son also has O S so he is going to try this as well. Kind Regards Margaret J., Auckland, New Zealand, 4/10/2006

Dear Gary,

My daughter plays competitive basketball year round and is also a nationally ranked member of the USA Track and Field organization for her age division (she is also the national regional AAU champion in the high jump). Mid-way through the winter basketball season she developed a severe case of OSD. After playing games and after hard practices, she couldn't walk without limping. Because we have a world renowned orthopedic clinic in the area (I won't mention any names), I thought surely they can help. It was frustrating to find out that all they could recommend was the standard R.I.C.E. treatment (which we were already doing!) and potentially sitting out the remainder of the basketball season and potentially the outdoor track season. Because my daughter is very, very driven and motivated, not to mention highly competitive; the idea of sitting out a season made her more than just a little bit crazy! (Almost impossible to live with). That aside, being a Dad I didn't like seeing my daughter in this debilitating state, so I began to look at and research any and all other treatment options for her, and came across Oscon. I have to admit that I was skeptical; I thought it couldn't be that simple. But I figured that we didn't really have anything to lose because Oscon is in-expensive and consists of natural supplements. Within a week there was a very noticeable difference. At about 2 weeks into the treatment the only symptom was that the OSD bump was still a little tender to the touch, but she had no problem playing at her normal intense level, basically she could use her quads as much and as hard as she wanted without any OSD pain. And by the fourth week the OSD bump, which appeared to be smaller, wasn't even sore. OSCON IS EVERYTHING IT IS ADVERTISED TO BE!! THANKFULLY! My daughter can continue to play basketball throughout the year. She is an integral part of her team, which is on a 30 game winning streak and will be playing in an upcoming international tournament (her coach is also very happy). And she will be able to defend her title as state champion, and national regional AAU champion in the high jump; as well as compete in all of her other track and field running events. I speak for my daughter in saying that WE ARE VERY SATISFIED CUSTOMERS!!! I HIGHLY RECOMMEND OSCON FOR ANY SUFFER OF OSD!!! A very special “Thank You” goes to any and all involved with advertising and making Oscon available!!!!!!!

Sincerely, Jeff 3/24/2006

Hello Mr. Nelson, My order arrived in record time and my daughter was able to use the OS Short Sleeve bands at National Cup this weekend. She absolutely loved the bands. The bands were extremely comfortable, light weight, well constructed without being bulky and restricting range of motion of her knees like the other knee bands I've purchased since December when the tendonitis first started. I was pleasantly surprised not to hear complaints of displeasure but rather expressions of awe that she actually likes the products. Thank you for taking the time to correspond with me via email during my purchase. I have passed on your website address and my review of the items that I purchased to the parents of other girls on the team who are experiencing painful knees. Thank you again and have a wonderful evening. Evette A., Tustin, California, 3/20/2006

Thank you so much for the speedy delivery. Both products have made a great improvement to our son’s soccer and rugby playing. We have taken your advice about tablets if no improvement with the knee pain we will be in touch. Very grateful all the way from Great Britain. Yours in sport. The Saunders family, Brighton, United Kingdom, 3/17/2006

I ordered Oscon for my son in 2004 and it was absolutely amazing. He was getting ready for 2 a days in football and was unable to run 2 feet because of the pain. You rushed me an order and he started taking it a week before practice started. He was able to participate in everything that first week except for one session where he had to ride the stationary bike instead. It was incredible! Since then I have made it one of my missions to seek out those who have these conditions and tell them about oscon. I even printed out your website info and gave it to our trainer at school and to those I find out are going through the same painful growing process my son went through. All that to tell you I believe in your product and what you have done to help so many kids………………………… Thank you, Linda G., Dallas, Texas, 3/14/2006

Hey, I tried out your product like you directed. Now I’m just taking one pill a day. The effect that the pills had was great. Before I couldn't squat weights, play basketball, or even go up simple stairs without my knee really hurting. But now I’m going out for track and squatting 180 lbs. Just wanted to say thank you for the pills and making them so affordable, it has really improved more then my sports life, it also helped my hunting and working at the farm also. So thanks again. Nate R., Redwood Falls, Minnesota, 3/12/2006

Gary, I received the strap today. Thanks, and the OSCON really has made a difference in the Osgood Schlatter's in my son's knee. Thank You, Heather M., Alliance, OH, 3/4/2006

Hi Gary, Thanks so much for the Oscon. My son is 16 years old and began showing signs of Osgood Schlatters disease about a year ago. I did some research and found your website and decided to try Oscon. Within a week he was almost totally pain free and was able to play without pain for approximately 9 months. The pain returned and we just recently purchased another bottle of Oscon and he is again free of pain. I also purchased a bottle for a friend of his that has the same symptoms. I am hoping that he will have the same results. Thanks, Scott S., Seffner, Florida, 2/28/2006

Dear Gary, we have now received the sleeve - thank you. James is already reporting an improvement on his knee - the bump is not so tender - many thanks. In the UK they tell everyone there is no cure. Just rest - I am passing your details on to other parents. Regards. Sara L., St. Edmunds, UK, 2/18/2006

This is the 2nd order we have filled for my grandson, who is 9 years old. He is very active in sports. The Oscon has helped ease his pain during sports. He now is playing pain free. Thank you. Jonathan & Laura P., Lake Jackson, Texas, 2/18/2006

Hi Gary, I ordered Oscon for my almost 14 year old son at the beginning of January. He hasn’t been 100% compliant in taking it twice daily, but we have seen a huge improvement My son is a very active boy…. He plays football then wrestling; he is a snow boarder and is taking Tae Kwon Do year round. When I ordered the Oscon, my son was just about ready to quit Wrestling due to the knee pain he was experiencing. He would call me after practice to ask to be picked up because he knee hurt so badly he didn’t want to walk anymore. But since reading about Oscon he decided to wait and see if it would help. Well, let me say that we are entering our last week of wrestling! My son even went to a tournament and took second place! His knee is a lot better. I only hear about any discomfort he is having when I ask, he is no longer bringing it up to me. (Which was every day?) I would say that he is about 85% improved! Another testament I have for you is when he went snow boarding after being on the Oscon for about 1 ½ weeks. He came home all excited because he could maneuver the board a lot better than before. He could do tricks and spins that his knee wouldn’t allow him to do just 2 weeks earlier! The joy on his face almost brought tears to my eyes! My son has struggled with his Osgood Schlatters knee problems for almost 4 years now, and finally there is something that helps! Thank you from the bottom of my heart! My questions for you are these. What is the typical length of treatment? (I have seen comments of 1 – 2 months on the website) Should I keep him on it another month? When will it be necessary to treat again? Like I have said, he has been on it for about 1 month now. Not religiously, so we do have some pills left. His knee pain I would say is about 85% improved, still some pain and tenderness every now and then especially with more exertion but a lot better than before. Thanks again!!!! Kim H., LaGrangeville, NY, 2/6/2006

Gary, Thanks so much for calling last night and speaking with my husband. Your customer service goes above and beyond…I will definitely recommend your website and products for anyone that I run into with OS. By the way, my son has a terrible gag-reflect so he can’t (or won’t because of fear now) swallow pills. That is why I didn’t order Oscon. When he finally does begin to swallow pills, I will be ordering them. Thanks again,

Barb S., Bemidji, Minnesota, 2/2/2006

ANSWER: Just FYI; Oscon has a liquid center that, mixed with peanut butter, is undetectable! There is no loss of efficacy either. Some use honey, jam or Hershey's syrup also. Just thought I'd let you know. Gary Nelson, Biochemist, Pediatric Sports Therapy

Your product is amazing!! My son has been on the oscon for only 5 days, and he has completely stopped complaining about his knee. I know this could just be a coincidence, but I highly doubt it! He is back to wrestling and the bump is gone! I really wasn't sold until NOW! Thanks so much! Cheryl V., Loveland, Colorado, 1/19/2006

Thank you for your prompt response. I purchased this 3rd bottle to give to both my kids 1/day for the second month. My daughter's left knee has a knot almost the size of a golf ball below her knee cap. Will this knot decrease in size over time? She is playing Freshman Basketball in High School and Club Volleyball. She is very active with both games and practices 7 days a week and the OSCON has helped tremendously. Is this genetic? I had Osgood in both my knees growing up. Thank you for a wonderful product.

Mike D., San Antonio, Texas, 1/14/2006

Hi, Think I'm through to the right person - Gary?

Anyway, my son David Down from near London in the UK suffered for 6 months with OS last year. We trailed around a number of Osteopaths/Physios/Doctors and were given the same advice - REST REST REST and possibly look at giving up judo - a sport which he took up 3 years ago and has done incredibly well at. As a 13 year old up and coming sportsman he was devastated and so we turned to the Web. After reading about OSCON we were a little sceptical but thought it worth a try. We were told that after a month he'd be back again doing judo (he couldn't even kneel on the mat for the customary "bow" at the beginning let alone do any high impact moves. We were told that after 2 months, the pain would probably be gone. As predicted, much to the judo coaches’ delight, David came back on the mat after a month. A month later he went on to win the SOUTH OF ENGLAND tournament at our International Arena Crystal Palace!!!! He now feels NO pain whatsoever (just 3-4 months after taking your advice) and I would happily become a distributor for this AMAZING product in the UK. I feel very passionately that we reach out to kids and those effected with this dreadful condition with this information.

Thank you once again - amazing! Please feel free to use any or all of the above in any promotional material. David continues to take 1 a day and I would therefore like to order 2 more jars of 60. I'm not sure if you still have my original card details but please call me and I will give the information to you over the phone (I think we are about 8 hours ahead of you so please don't go phoning in the middle of the night!). Please send an email confirming you've received this.

Regards Mrs. Dawn Down, Milton Keynes, UK 1/13/2006

This is my second shipment of Oscon. I got them for my 12 year old daughter. We were at our wits end as nothing seemed to help and some days the pain in her knees was so bad she couldn't even walk home from school. She used to dance 3 times a week and was in the school athletics team up until May of last year when the pain in her knees became so bad that she was just unable to carry on with these activities. We visited the Doctor on numerous occasions and each time we were told she had to 'wait it out' and give her painkillers. After the first month of taking Oscon the difference has been absolutely amazing. The pain is still there when pressure is put on the 'bump' but she is able once again to take up ballet and rejoin the athletics team and has even added the volleyball team to her list of activities. We cannot express our gratitude enough. She is back on track and enjoying herself again. Thank you so much. Regards Mandy C., Alberta, Canada, 1/7/2006

Shipment arrived on New Years Eve many thanks for that. I will keep you posted regards ongoing progress, but just wanted to say that improvement after 5 days have been unbelievable. He can now RUN instead of hobbling during his cricket bowling and batting. He generally does a lot of road running but we haven’t got back into this as yet as I don’t want to overdo it. Just to be able to play cricket again is fantastic! He has a 5 day cricket tournament starting on the Jan 8th. I will give you a progress report after that and also order some more. Once again, many thanks. Kind Regards Maggie J., Auckland, New Zealand 1/4/2006

I wanted to let you know that my daughter is already feeling relief in her knees, most likely from the Oscon! She'd been complaining of pain on a regular basis the weeks preceding receipt of the Oscon. Actually she's been having a lot of pain since August. She was diagnosed with Genu Valgum (knock knee) which was obvious, and the Osgood Schlatter specifically on her right knee. She rides horses (English) regularly (almost daily) and the posting may have caused the tear due to gradual strain. She's ten and it remains to be seen if the genu valgum will correct itself a bit, but we have an appointment at Duke Hospital in February for their opinion, as the misalignment is putting such strain on her knees and ankles even. It's difficult to see her in pain. Anyway, thanks for sending the Oscon, as it seems to be helping a lot for both conditions. Regards, Candy R., North Carolina, 1/2/2006

I did not paste the full 74 pages here, of course. User:Ignelson 02:22, 22 February 2007

• Wow. Just.....wow. I'm at a loss for words, in many, many ways. -- MarcoTolo 01:58, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

re cause, it is not necessary for myself to know or not know the cause (when it comes to wikipedia) - for that would be a personal opinion and be inadmissible under WP:No original research. What counts is being able to WP:Cite from WP:Reliable sources in order to WP:Verify information. A quick search of the largest collection of abstracts of biomedical journals, PubMed, gives no papers including the term "Oscon". One can though cite from Demirag B, Ozturk C, Yazici Z, Sarisozen B (2004). "The pathophysiology of Osgood-Schlatter disease: a magnetic resonance investigation". J Pediatr Orthop B 13 (6): 379-82. PMID 15599229.  - that "Osgood-Schlatter disease (OSD) is a well-described clinical condition, although its origin remains controversial. Mechanical, growth or traumatic factors are suggested as causes of this lesion." which does not suggest lipid or vitamin E role. That paper concludes as one factor for the cause that "We conclude that if the patellar tendon attaches more proximally and in a broader area to the tibia, this might probably cause OSD"

From this month comes Gholve P, Scher D, Khakharia S, Widmann R, Green D (Feb 2007). "Osgood Schlatter syndrome". Curr Opin Pediatr 19 (1): 44-50. PMID 17224661.  - that states "Osgood Schlatter syndrome is a traction apophysitis of the tibial tubercle due to repetitive strain on the secondary ossification center of the tibial tuberosity." David Ruben ^Talk 02:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

So, to sum-up:

1. a condition that usually presents in a particular age-defined pattern (adolescents),
2. with a specific, age-limited physiological condition (rapid linear growth),
3. frequently with a commonly associated history (athletic participation)

turns out to have a logical and definable pathological basis? Its not related to taking large doses of (fill in the blank)? Huh, its almost as if medicine was based in, I don't know, science or something..... -- MarcoTolo 02:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Now if only Wikipedia would reflect that... MastCell 03:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

LOL - thanks MarcoTolo & MastCell :-) David Ruben ^Talk 15:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)