Talk:Davidka

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[edit] Citations / References

I just added in lots of information, largely taken from the Hebrew Wikipedia article. Unfortunately, that article lists no sources, although I've seen much of this information in the past.

I need to do some research to find citations, but given that I've just written the entire article beyond the initial three sentences, I feel justified in bumping the date of the {{Unreferenced}} tag to today, July, 2007.

Also, I've taken out the {{stub}} tag because this page is starting to look like a proper encyclopedia entry. --Eliyahu S ^Talk 00:22, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad to see that you finally fleshed out this article; I'm very impressed by the amount of information you've collected. I found a photo of David Leibovich with the Davidka at the following Israel Government web site: www.archives.mod.gov.il. I could forward it to you, but I'm still learning the ropes regarding copyright issues! (Bookbayou 20:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Casualties?

The article makes the Davidka sound like a cute firecracker, yet according to a number of historians, it was often fired into civilian areas causing severe casualties. I added a reference to that effect by Khalidi. Cheers, Pedro Gonnet 11:47, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I think I read it was not an efficient weapon. But where to find this ??? If I find I add this. Alithien 08:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

It was horribly ineffiecient, but it could cause damage. It's bark, however, was worse than it's bite. Severe casualties would be sustained whenever any sort of artillery was fired into civilian areas, which happened on both sides. AllenHansen (talk) 14:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I find it inciteful that the Khalidi quote talks about people being "maddened with fear" by the weapon. If it had caused lots of casualties, one would think that would have been mentioned. -- Eliyahu S ^Talk 07:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the article is a clear whitewash. Even DEBKAfile admits: "3. Israel’s pre-state Haganah force turned the noisy Davidka mortar into a "weapon of terror" that put Arabs to flight during the 1948 War of Independence." They liken it to the modern-day Qassams. [1] Davidka was a terror weapon used almost exclusively against civilians. <eleland/talkedits> 21:20, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

"a terror weapon used almost exclusively against civilians"

I don't get it. If you mean a device to scare people -- yes. If you mean dangerous -- not really, as the (lack of) casualties demonstrates. Militarily, it is arguable that in such a case, when a large portion of the "enemy" consists of poorly trained "irregulars" (read, rabble,) and/or civilians with a propensity for bloody mob activity, then this is the *best* kind of weapon -- one with low lethality but a high fear factor.

It pays to remember the context of previous Arab rioting, such as the 1920 Palestine riots, the 1929 Hebron Massacre, the 1929 Safed massacre, and the Kfar Etzion massacre. Lots of Jewish casualties were caused by Arab "lynch" mobs, as we've seen to this day (e.g. the Lynching in Ramallah in 2000.) When defenders are outnumbered by large mobs, such a weapon is appropriate to disperse them and leave the battlefield to smaller numbers of "professional" combatants. It's just strategically sound thinking, especially given the limited resources.

My "take" on the Davidka is that it was a kludge, home-brew artillery that didn't work as a militarily serious piece of hardware, and was then retrofited into a scare-tactic device for use, as I just said, to drive away irregulars and non-combatants in a relatively non-lethal way.

Not that the Haganah cared about minimizing Arab causalties, mind you, but that if it had been a serious killing machine it would have been directed at real troops like the Arab Legion. --Eliyahu S ^Talk 20:04, 21 May 2008 (UTC)