Talk:David Myatt

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Talk:David Myatt/archive1

Contents


[edit] VNN Forum Allegation

I have reverted the edit by user:Onlythfacts since: (1) VNN forum is not IMO a credible source according to Wikipedia criteria, and (2) the allegation made is just another unsubstantiated allegation about Myatt. In respect of this allegation of Myatt still posting on racist forums, Myatt has made it quite clear that he has renounced his former nazi, racist views (see for example [1] ) and that as a Muslim he has no interest whatsoever in posting items on racist forums. Coolmoon (talk) 11:42, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Myatt's Middle Name

I have reverted the last edit as several published sources give Myatt's middle name as Wulstan. These sources include Michael, George. (2006) The Enemy of My Enemy, and Myatt himself (qv his poetry and Greek translations). The confusion with William arose from a series of articles by Myatt published in the now defunct Filosfem magazine which incorrectly gave his middle name as William. Coolmoon 18:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The reference to 'William' as his middle name is here. Where is the refernce that Filosfem magazine "incorrectly gave his middle name as William"? Robert C Prenic 20:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
With respect, your link is to a "conspiracy" type website which might not be entirely reliable. Myatt's middle name is given by Professor George Michael in his book - he was in personal correspondence with Myatt [this can be verified by Professor Michael, I presume, if required] and Myatt gave him some personal details including his middle name. Those interested might like to know that some issues of Filosofem are to be reprinted by Integral Tradition Publishing, of Denmark. Coolmoon 19:57, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you, I just want to also give this reference: It is also mentioned as William in here:
The chief representative of Nazi satanism in Britain is David William Myatt, whose thought has been a major influence on this international cult. Born in 1952, Myatt was brought up in East Africa and Singapore, where he was fascinated with spirit-dancing and martial arts. In 1967 Myatt came to England to complete his secondary education, while his father returned to Africa. The young Myatt made contact with a coven in Fenland the following summer and later joined secret groups in London practicing the magic of the Golden Dawn and Aleister Crowley. Around this time the activities of Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan became widely known. Yet Myatt remained unimpressed by what he saw of ritual magic and occultism. He sought something altogether more exciting, dangerous and truly evil. At the same time he began to think of satanism as a means to create an new fearless individual, a higher human type in a Nietzschean sense (Anton Long [i.e. David Myatt], Diablerie: Revelations of a Satanist.(Shrewsbury, U.K.: Thormynd Press, 1991)" Pages 216-217, Black Sun: Chapter "Nazi satanism and the new Aeon", Goodrick-Clarke, 2002 195.188.112.2 (talk) 02:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for that. The fact is - like I said in a previous reply - that people like Professor Jeffrey Kaplan and Professor George Michael, who mention Myatt in their books, took the trouble to contact Myatt in person, and so ascertained certain details about him, such as his real middle name. AFAIK, Goodrick-Clarke did not contact Myatt. Kaplan exchanged several letters with Myatt, as he mentions in his book Nation and Race - he also states that he believes Myatt and Long are not the same person. Coolmoon (talk) 04:52, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I've removed the ref in the Myatt article to Diablerie: Revelations of a Satanist because Goodrick-Clarke only claimed that that book was by Myatt, not providing any evidence. This is based on his claim that Myatt is Anton Long - something which another author, Prof. Geoff Kaplan, does not accept. Also, Myatt's always denied being this Anton Long character. So, unless this claim is balanced by denial by Myatt and by citing the counter claim of people like Kaplan, it seems best to keep this contentious issue of Myatt being Anton Long out of the article here, so keeping to NPOV. It couild be inserted in the ONA article, but a balanced view should be given - arguments pro and con. 91.121.202.57 (talk) 10:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Myatt's the Numinious Way and break from his past

I've removed this material from the article and from here. It's about someone else, not about Myatt, and it violates so many of our content policies, there's no point in listing them. If it keeps on being added, the page will have to be protected, so please stop. If the anon has a genuine point to make that is directly relevant to this article and can be sourced to a reliable publication, please post it here succinctly. SlimVirgin (talk) 18:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

It is clear that the point being made is that Myatt has made a break from his past affiliations with his recent adoption of The Numinious Way. How is that about someone else? It is clear that you are not at all interested in any Wiki NPOV but only in enforcing your own POV.

  • Thanks for that. Seems to me that this anon person is a Pierce fan who objected to Myatt criticizing Pierce's immoral racism. 65.57.106.15 05:01, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

"Immoral racism?"???!

No, if you had actually read Myatt's "The Numinious Way" you would know that what Myatt is critical of Pierce and of his Cosmotheism is that it is "immoral" because it is all based upon "an abstraction" and NOT at all because Cosmotheism is "immoral because it is racist".[2]

Both of you need to get your facts straight before reverting other peoples factual edits. It is clear that the point being made is that Myatt has made a break from his past affiliations with his recent adoption of "The Numinious Way", of which and which includes his "criticisms of Dr. Pierce and his Cosmotheism", really makes that quite clear. I guess that any of these "facts" won't get in the way of your own biased POV vs a true NPOV for this article on "David Myatt", or will it? Political bias like yours in the Wiki Project makes this encyclopedia into a "joke".

  • First of all - 72.250.238.141 - you should really sign your comments by placing four tildas (~) at the end. Second, Wikipedia does strive hard to uphold NPOV - if you look at, for example, the edits of user SlimVirgin to this Myatt article over say the past year you will see she has tried to present a balanced view, something not easy to do when the subject has or is perceived to have controversial and "extremist" views. Third, Myatt's criticism of Pierce is, IMO, not germane to the article here. Fourth, Myatt "may" have broken away from his past - and if this is so then, provided a reliable source (according to Wikipedia's criteria) is given it may (just "may") merit a mention. You have not, it seems, provided such a reliable source. However, that said, enough information is already provided re this so called "numinous way" - including a link to items on Myatt's own site - for readers to enquire further if they are interested in the matter. 65.57.106.15 17:33, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

First, I am a anon, second, I have not seen the NPOV upheld in Wikipedia, thirdly, Myatt's criticism of Pierce is quite germane as it is proof or clear evidence indicating his real "break from the past" and via Myatt's "own words". What is more reliable than that of one's own words for being a "source" and also of one's own beliefs? This is the link that proves his break, regardless of any of your own biased or "pc" POV, that should remain in the article: [3] Those at all interested in the truth of any matter should check all primary sources and just not ever rely on any PC-biased group of editors at Wikipedia.

  • Signing comments does not affect anonymity - and, as I understand it, unsigned comments are liable to be removed. On the matter of "truth", as someone once quipped: "What is truth"? While wikipedia is not perfect, its contributors are diverse in their views - if you follow a heavily edited article over a period of time, you will see a dialectic in operation. The pendulum may swing both ways for a while, but in the end it slows down and a kind of balance is achieved. If you are so against wikipedia, you could always start your own project - and I do believe alternative metapedias may already exist. Coolmoon 04:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
    • After further reflection, I have decided to remove from the article your comment about cosmotheism (pace please) - since (1) the article you gave a link to is unsigned and on a site which is not Myatt's; (2) Myatt's conversion to Islam is anyway, as he claims, a break from his nazi past, so this further comment is in my view superfluous; (3) several links, in the Myatt wikipedia article, are already given to various items, by Myatt, which affirm this change in his views, and more can be found on his own website. Coolmoon 05:06, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
      • I have reverted to the previous version by SlimVirgin as the recent edits by 72.250.238.141 are it seems to me unnecessary and incorrect. It is unnecessary in my view to add words such as "for him" and "to any mixing..." in the section on The Numinous Way since these things are implicit already. It is incorrect to insert "recently" and change "is" to "was" in the lead - Myatt, by his own admission, is a Muslim and continues penning what many describe as "Islamist" articles, and his "Numinous Way" dates back, it seems, to his C18 days (before his conversion to Islam). As for him still being a nazi - this is debatable; Myatt himself says he no longer is ( qv. his From Neo-Nazi to Muslim essay on his website and some Muslim internet forums, and other recent essays written under the name Abdul Aziz Ibn Myatt) while others remain unconvinced. Coolmoon 03:44, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Link to Nazi Writings

I have removed the link to a site which contains some of Myatt's neo nazi writings as such a link seems to me unjustified for several reasons. First, Wikipedia should not be in the business of promoting such material; second, the site contains a collection of old writings by Myatt giving views he has since, apparently, rejected [4] [5]; and third, if any reader is particularly interested in such views, then surely they can find them by doing a web search. Coolmoon 04:59, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I find it hilarious that the spook monkey "Coolmoon" has taken away the Security Services Asset post when he is quite happy to keep in references to him being a Nazi. Funny old world innit?! 81.156.236.173 16:10, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I know that Myatt's official site and Official forum profile are linked in the article, as shown below. Last updated remarks are of 25 April 2008:

But should these below links be added?

Robert C Prenic 22:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

    • First off, the cjb site was never an official site by or about Myatt. It was set up and maintained by some Swedish fans of Myatt and it and its contents were never endorsed by Myatt. Second, the tedder tripod site no longer exists and was anon and so it's contents are dubious. Third, the 1998 edition of the Searchlight magazine to which you gave a link contains loads of libellous allegations about Myatt and not one piece of evidence. Myatt denied all the allegations made by Searchlight then, and on other occasions, and challenged them to provide evidence, which they didn't and haven't. Therefore to include it would IMO contravene NPOV especially as coverage of the allegations is given in the main article. Fourth, the only official site by Myatt is that at www.davidmyatt.info of which the www.dwmyatt.info site is a mirror. 208.77.91.15 11:25, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
      • Re: Searchlight: the allegations made have been repeated in several published books, as is noted in another article in Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.12.138.210 (talk) 00:27, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
        • Repeating unproven allegations and malicious rumors does not make them any more valid or truthful. 208.77.91.15 03:02, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
  • It's also suspected that Myatt is posting on the VNN forum (Vanguard National News) under the name "Aryan Lord". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.203.53.99 (talk) 06:40, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
    • An asinine allegation, also completely unproven (as always) and vigorously denied by this *Aryan Lord* character anyway. Asinine, 'cos Myatt is now regarded as a "race traitor" - an enemy - by the people on such forums for his conversion to Islam and his renunciation of his former nazi and racist views. Do please take the trouble to read what Myatt has said in the last few years regarding his commitment to Islam and his rejection of such views. 208.77.91.8 12:00, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Another 'NEW' site recently posted as his official one saying that he has turned back from Islam. The site: http://www.wulstan.info/ has lots of articles supporting this but now only a few pictures. 77.98.117.4 (talk) 17:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
    • Myatt's own official site is http://www.davidmyatt.info/ which hasn't changed at all. The other site you refer to is registered to someone else (not Myatt). Myatt has only ever claimed the davidmyatt.info as his own (and it's linked from his profile at Islamic Awakening). That's why I reverted the edits in the Wikipedia Myatt article. So, the site you refer to was most probably set up by someone else with the intention of spreading rumours, circulating disinformation (etcetera) about Myatt - which isn't something new. Coolmoon (talk) 18:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] IQ

Political scientist George Michael has written that Myatt is an "intriguing theorist," [9] with a reported IQ of 187, [9] who has embarked over the years on a series of "Faustian quests." [9] — I seriously doubt this guy has an IQ of 187, mainly, because he's a follower of Islam (not exactly a religion that attracts geniuses). It would be nice if someone could verify the source given for this bold statement.[6] ISBN 0700614443 page 142. — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 00:32, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

What a patronizing, prejudiced - perhaps even racist - comment this seems to be. Now, if anyone had written "I seriously doubt this guy has an IQ of 187, mainly, because he's a follower of Judaism (not exactly a religion that attracts geniuses)" then imagine the controversy such a comment would, quite rightly, arouse. The same if we inserted Christianity instead. Your personal "doubt" in this matter is, in my view, irrelevant, for the criteria of inclusion of such a detail in respect of the subject of a Wikipedia article is that of a reliable source, and a book written by a Professor and published by a mainstream publisher is considered to be such a reliable and verifiable source. Coolmoon (talk) 17:47, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
It's in no way racist because Islam is not a race. Jews, on the other hand, are quite intelligent (Albert Einstein wasn't a coincidence, and look up Ashkenazi intelligence). Jews, are arguably a race/ethnic group and quite intelligent. And Christianity, just like Islam, is not a race. You have to be intelligent enough to know the difference between race and religion. Obviously, two different things we're talking about here. Holding up the racist card is just lame anyway. Look, I would like for someone to verify this claim by checking the source. That's all. No need to accuse me of being racist when I just happen to dislike Islam as a religion. By the way, I must admit this was probably the most ironic "racist" personal attacks I've ever been accused of. I think I've seen it all now, when being called racist for insinuating that Islamonazis are dumb, lol :) — EliasAlucard (Discussion · contribs) 17:21, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Your comment was still quite patronizing and prejudiced - OK, I may have gone somewhat overboard by writing that it may even have been "racist". Perhaps I should have written: Islamophobic. It is prejudice to judge an individual - and their worth, and so on - by some outward attribute, be that attribute the color of their skin, their religion, or even their political views. The comment was certainly patronizing, because of the assumptions you have made about Islam in general. Coolmoon (talk) 09:27, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Articles removed from his website

I notice that a couple of articles (there may be more, I am unsure) that have been penned by Abdul Aziz Ibn Myatt have been removed from his website.

For example:

(Revised 16 Jumaada Al-Thaani 1424)).

Any anyone help retrieve the ones I an unable too? The ones in bold? 77.98.117.4 (talk) 06:18, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

    • Several of his article - AFAIK - have never appeared on his official website, including Are Martyrdom Operations Lawful (which was updated by Abdul-Aziz ibn Myatt on 3 Rajab 1428 - the original being dated 1424 AH) and the very recent Deen Al-Islam and the Question of Civilians, which is dated 14 Zhul al-Hijjah 1428. The Saved Sect article which you mentioned is the updated version of his From Neo-Nazi to Muslim (which is on his davidmyatt.info site) - they asked him to update it to include some reference to his renunciation of his neo-nazi views, which he did. I'll see if I can find the other articles you mentioned. Coolmoon (talk) 16:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
      • I have linked some of the updated articles, hope this is ok. Thanks for your help. I just wish he'd put his articles in one place and in order - especially for people for find him interesting and respect him. That would be greatly appreciated, I hope he thinks of doing this. 77.98.117.4 (talk) 17:39, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
        • Any luck Coolman?

Of those listed on the AN forum page that you gave a link to, only the following are by ibnmyatt. All of these - except those marked with + - are on his davidmyatt.info site.

Those marked with ++ are on the Islamic Awakening forum

For those marked with + I have given links

Those marked with +++ seem to be unavailable, or I haven't found them.

+ Democracy - Imitation of the Kuffar

available at http://web.archive.org/web/20050407142747/www.aryan-nations.org/wulfranhall/islam1.html

The Significance of the Taliban

+++ Basic Introduction to Islam

Hikmah - The Simple Beauty That is Islam

The Misrepresentation of Islam

Jenin: A Name We Shall Remember

Some Fundamental Principles of Authentic islam

Islamic Sanctuary: The Real Cause of the War

The Hypocrisy of the Kuffar

++ A Brief Guide to Kaffir-speak

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=4134&postcount=1

This was recently reposted by a Muslimah at

http://www.myislamweb.com/forum/showpost.php?s=419a8541fbfac6c0f20998a7b7b2b2dd&p=142761&postcount=1

+ Obeying Only Allah http://www.ummah.com/forum/showpost.php?p=714906&postcount=1

and at

http://web.archive.org/web/20050407161928/www.aryan-nations.org/wulfranhall/myatt-islam3.html

+++ Whose Law Do We Obey?

Other articles of note by ibnmyatt, which do not seem to be currently available, include - "Why I Support Sheikh Usama bin Laden (Hafidhaullah)" [dated 18 Thul-Hujja 1423] Coolmoon (talk) 06:29, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Basic Introduction to Islam is available at http://www.davidmyatt.info/intro.html Coolmoon (talk) 09:18, 3 May 2008 (UTC)