Talk:David Marks (psychologist)

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2008-06-10. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents 1 POV / Vanity 2 POV 3 Question_book-3.svg‎ 4 Text_document_with_red_question_mark.svg‎ (SVG file, nominally 48 × 48 pixels, file size: 20 KB)

[edit] POV / Vanity

Most of the edits to this page have been made by user:David marks. While the article does seem to contain some purely factual information, overall it reads more like a resume/curriculum vitae than an encyclopedia entry. Dsreyn 14:42, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

On 6/21/06, User:81.152.202.143 correctly noted that the preceding is no longer true. However, modifying comments posted by other users is not acceptable, so I have restored my previous comment. Dsreyn 16:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Expansion was invited in February 2006 as follows: "This article about a psychologist is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it."

I believe that I am entitled to expand and/or edit a page that is about me. However, except for a piece of disambiguation, the content of this page has now been removed. Interested readers are referred to Who's Who for the subject's biography. This is an annual British publication of very short biographies of about 30,000 notable Britons, published since 1849 by A & C Black. Who's Who chooses who is who and invites biographees to update/edit his/her biography without any hint of an accusation or insinuation of vanity. It is seen as a desirable feature of a reference work to remain topical and up-to-date, vanity notwithstanding user:David marks.

I wonder how a person with interests and knowledge in one field (e.g.music) can judge the notability of a person from another field (e.g.psychology)?

You need to become familiar with Wikipedia's policies. I refer you to the policy on Vanity, and particularly the guideline on autobiography. I think the autobiography guideline makes it quite clear that you should not be doing this. In short, despite whatever you "believe", you are not entitled to expand or edit a page about yourself; you should leave it for others. It doesn't matter who you are or how important you are - there is no reason why an exception to the policy should be made for you.

Also, your last comment ("I wonder how a person...") was not very constructive. My actions were in line with the policies cited above - no judgement of your notability was involved; also, my interests are not confined to "one field", as clearly indicated on my user page. A comment like yours could be interpreted as a personal attack, which is also a policy violation (repeated personal attacks often result in bans). Before you start sniping at other editors, you should learn the rules. Dsreyn 12:47, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your friendly welcome to Wikipedia. As a newcomer to "wiki culture" I can assure you that it was not intended to be a snipe, but a genuine question asked in good faith. My question remains unanswered.

Please follow the rules about good faith as follows:

"To assume good faith is a fundamental principle on any wiki, including Wikipedia. As we allow anyone to edit, it follows that we assume that most people who work on the project are trying to help it, not hurt it. If this weren't true, a project like Wikipedia would be doomed from the beginning. So, when you can reasonably assume that something is a well-intentioned error, correct it without just reverting it or labeling it as vandalism. When you disagree with someone, remember that they probably believe that they are helping the project. Consider using talk pages to explain yourself, and give others the opportunity to do the same. This can avoid misunderstandings and prevent problems from escalating. Especially, remember to be patient with newcomers, who will be unfamiliar with Wikipedia's culture and rules. A newcomer's behaviour probably seems appropriate to him or her and a problem usually indicates unawareness or misunderstanding of Wikipedian culture. It is not uncommon for a newcomer to believe that an unfamiliar policy should be changed to match their experience elsewhere. Similarly, many newcomers bring with them experience or expertise for which they expect immediate respect. Behaviours arising from these perspectives are not necessarily malicious. Assuming good faith is about intentions, not actions. Well-meaning people make mistakes, and you should correct them when they do. You should not act like their mistake was deliberate. Correct, but don't scold. There will be people on Wikipedia with whom you disagree. Even if they're wrong, that doesn't mean they're trying to wreck the project. There will be some people with whom you find it hard to work. That doesn't mean they're trying to wreck the project either; it means they annoy you. It is never necessary that we attribute an editor's actions to bad faith, even if bad faith seems obvious, as all our countermeasures (i.e. reverting, blocking) can be performed on the basis of behavior rather than intent."

Please accept my apologies if my statement implied that you are interested only in music. Your stated interests actually are: Music, mainly folk and celtic. I'm particularly interested in the following: Hammered dulcimer Banjo Cape Breton fiddling Baseball Hockey Chess

You seem to be missing the point. I maintain that your statement is at least a marginal personal attack. The appearance you gave is that you are trying to put a greater value on your opinion than mine by saying, essentially, "I know more about this than you do, so you should defer to my superior knowledge." Since you are persisting in asking for an answer to your "question" even after my last reply, I have to assume that I'm interpreting this correctly. As I said previously, no judgement of your notability was involved. I also directed you to the policy on autobiography, which I assume you have now read (if you do not understand the autobiography policy, please ask for clarification). The point was, and is, I can say that you should not write your own entry without making any assessment of your notability. My interests have no bearing on this, and I'm not sure why else you are continuing to press that point, unless it's for the reason I mentioned above. Note that I did not nominate the page for deletion, which would be an appropriate action if I thought you were unworthy of an entry. Dsreyn 01:52, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

You are continuing to assume bad faith by assuming "a marginal attack" which is contrary to a fundamental principle. However, you have clarified your case, which I accept as valid within the culture, and to prevent this discussion from going in circles, I thank you for your advice. I suggest that we agree to disagree about the so-called "attack", terminate the discussion, and move on to more worthwhile issues. Life is too short!

By the way, I also have an interest in banjos.

The reason I continued to assume a personal attack is that you persisted even after it was brought to your attention. The intent of the "assume good faith" policy is not to give users a free pass on the "no personal attacks" policy. And frankly, I don't see how your comment could have been made in good faith, as it's hard to imagine it being well received in any forum, not just on Wikipedia. Since you also appear to have missed another point, I wasn't taking exception just to the implication that I have only one field of interest - the more important point was your dismissal of my input as worthless since I'm not a psychologist (that approach isn't very likely to earn you friends around here). In any case, I agree that we've gone about as far as we can with this discussion. Dsreyn 15:25, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

There is Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers, but on the other hand, Dr. Marks needs to read up on some of the policies and learn to sign comments on the talk page with four tildas. If someone else puts in the factual information, will that be OK? Bubba73 (talk), 19:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why it wouldn't be OK, as long as it's NPOV and verifiable. Dsreyn 03:07, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how to verify most of it (unless we can go straight to the source). Today I got his book The Psychology of the Psychic, and there is little information about him in it. Bubba73 (talk), 03:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps some basic biographical details could be taken from one of David's versions from early April. I don't really see a problem with using information he provided for his date of birth, degrees, and so forth. The "selected bibliography" probably would be also non-controversial (and I assume, relatively easy to verify). However, I think the prior section called "Work" was heavy on POV, and should be omitted (unless there's some independent source of such information). Dsreyn 14:54, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

That sounds OK to me. An editor wouldn't have to verify those details, but they would be verifiable by an interested person by checking records, contacting institutions, etc. As far as "work", I'd have to look back at on old version to see what it says to give an opinion. Bubba73 (talk), 18:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the material that has been removed can be made NPOV quite easily, and should be fixed and restored. Bubba73 (talk), 01:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

Isn't the discussion page a good place to dispute and/or add factual information about oneself? That way, you're not editing the page (i.e. autobiographically), you are simply pointing out incorrect information. For Example: the article states that I graduated from X in the year Y. Actually, I graduated from X in the year Z with a degree in A. ...or is that against wikipolicy or frowned upon as well? Trigam41 20:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question_book-3.svg‎

A question to a relevant administrator : Why is the question book image and statement from May 2007 still showing? The article has been updated and contains independent references and sources across a variety of verifiable publications. An administrator needs to review this and remove the question book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Expressionofinterest (talk • contribs) 12:23, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Text_document_with_red_question_mark.svg‎ (SVG file, nominally 48 × 48 pixels, file size: 20 KB)

An administrator has added a text document with a red question mark and the statement "This article or section includes a list of references or external links, but its sources remain unclear because it lacks in-text citations." To this reader this appears to be untrue as there are many in-text citations in APA style which is acknowledged as an acceptable citation style in the discipline of psychology. Is there some misunderstanding about what constitutes acceptable in-text citations? Sorry about the unsigned edit above - I forgot. Expressionofinterest —Preceding comment was added at 20:33, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, WP:CITE#HOW says, "Any style or system is acceptable on Wikipedia so long as articles are internally consistent." I didn't notice the APA style references. --Geniac (talk) 23:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)