Talk:Davey Graham

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Contents

[edit] Anji

Comment by Ralph Katzenell. My brother, Sydney Katzenell (now deceased)told me that in fact he (Syd) originated Angie whilst living in a flat at 26 St Charles Square, in the West End of London. The flat was occupied by a whole group of kids who were musicians, who hung out at, among other places, "The Gyre and Gimble" in John Adams Street, just across from the side stairs up to Charing X Railway Station. Syd had a sort of "job" looking after the coffee shop, and always made sure that young musicians could get free coffee and a place to play there. Angie, he told me, was based on "Hit the Road, Jack" which was a hit at the time, and "Big Noise at Winnetka". Davey Graham heard my brother playing it, and polished it and recorded it.

I have expanded the section on Anji and referenced Sydney Katzenell Bluewave 10:38, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Is this verifiable - it sounds like it offends the rule against 'verifiability' and 'original research' - what source can verify this comment? Dr V 10:05, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I've trawled the internet and can find no references to any controversy over the authorship of Angi. I propose that this section is removed. What's more, maybe it would be better if Angi got its own page? oddsenex

The fact that musicians, including Graham, hung out at the Gyre and Gimble is widely accepted but I can't quote a verifiable source. The fact that Anji includes themes from other songs (particularly the Work Song) is obvious from the music itself, and I'm sure I can find references (will check books): that ability to blend different musical ideas together is part of the genius of Davey Graham. The remainder is the testimony of Ralph Katzenell above. I thought it worth a mention but I won't try and revert a (tasteful) edit if others disagree! Bluewave 09:32, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Note for the, um, record: The section of "The Work Song" that is often included in "Angie" originates with Bert Jansch's version, which was transmitted to US players primarily via Paul Simon's cover. (I never heard anyone play Davey's original version live until the 1980s, when John Renbourn demonstrated it at a workshop.) RLetson (talk) 19:41, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Born in Leicester?

This has been added today. Is it verifiable? I have checked the birth indexes for November/December 1940 and the only Graham born in Leicester was Michael A. Graham. Bluewave 17:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nationality - category

Someone has recently changed the cat from British guitarists to English guitarists. Given that he is half-Scots, British seems a better category, so I have changed it back. Other views welcome... Bluewave 19:47, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don’t have another view: I share yours…—Ian Spackman 23:23, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Davey or Davy?

Both spellings abound, sometimes in the same web page. In the article we have things like a link to "Davey Graham's website" which is www.davygraham.com. Graham himself is not much help: the Terrascope interview cited in the article includes "Q: I've often wondered, should 'Davey' be spelled with an 'e' or without an 'e'? A: I used to be called Davie because Angie spelled her name with an 'i'. I didn't know 'Angiography' was the study of blood vessels, did you? Actually, I'd rather be called 'Dave'. I'm not too concerned about the 'e', or the 'y' either." Can anyone offer a convincing rationale for Davy or Davey? Bluewave 13:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Hat.png

Image:Hat.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drug abuse

An anon claims that the drugs claims are unsubstantiated and libelous; the Guardian article (provided as reference) was withdrawn due to factual errors, and that Graham was never booked to go Australia.

This is a WP:BLP issue.

I don't see any link to the Guardian article. The Guardian's website has articles dated earlier than 2003. Since the article provided as reference was published in 2005, it should be present on the Guardian website, if not withdrawn.

Any comments?

I've removed the disputed content, until somebody provides a better, accessible source. utcursch | talk 14:23, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I found the original Guardian article which was certainly published and I was the person who quoted from it. I don't think that every article that appears in the Grauniad also appears on its website, however. I'm not sure what the statement that the article was "withdrawn" means - how do you withdraw an article which has appeared in a national newspaper? Did they print a correction or apology or something? If the issue is finding a reliable source for Graham's use of drugs, there are several other sources: Colin Harper's books are well-researched and quotable (and I think there were some references to them in the now-deleted paragraph). If the issue is about potential libel, that is surely OK if the section quotes explicitly from published material. The other thing that has been mentioned is that Graham himself finds the material upsetting. I would have some sympathy for omitting it on those grounds but not sure if this is indeed that point at issue. I would be quite happy to rewrite the section, making sure that everything is a direct reference to published (and not withdrawn) material, but don't want to waste my time doing that if the consensus is to omit this section because of Graham's own views. Bluewave 11:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Go ahead. I believe the original Guardian mention came from the BBC News website which has most of the original text that was included here before... except that the verification link to the "source" did not work. The anon that kept blanking all the material(including try to rm any previous discussion on it) was acting under fan-boyism... more than just trying to rm text that couldn't be (WP:V|verified]]. Some people just don't like seeing anything negative about their idols added to Wikipedia. If any material with verifiable citations is added... negative or positive... I will see that that stays put.(and I know several editors who will assist in keeping the content in place 156.34.221.91 11:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

The BBC Radio 2 "Whatever Happened to Davey Graham?" (2005, no longer available on the BBC website) includes Martin Carthy's recollection of Graham's deliberate choice to take up heroin and his openness about his drug use--Carthy reports that Graham talked about how much he enjoyed getting high and that he registered as an addict with the National Health. Other contemporaries confirm that and what it did to his playing and stagecraft. In Dazzling Stranger (2001), Colin Harper calls Graham "a drug-sozzled Icarus" (p. 190) and also quotes Carthy on Graham's decision in the 1960s to "become a junkie" (p. 155). This stuff is not exactly news, and while it would be nice to think that Graham is now embarrassed by it, that's not reason enough to suppress published, well-researched information--especially when it helps to explain what became of a brilliant and influential player who dropped out of sight for so long. RLetson (talk) 20:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Hat.png

Image:Hat.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Problem fixed. Jo (talk) 23:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)