Talk:Dave Arneson
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[edit] Birthdate
Why is there none? 60.234.155.202 05:28, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Year of birth is also definitely wrong; as is evident in citation [1], he was 55 years old -at the time of that interview- (which given the post date, could be no later than 2004), which would make his year of birth 1949 at latest. He was also first published in the Avalon Hill General in 1965 (volume 2 number 3) - barely possible if he was born in 1949, ludicrous if he was born in 1955. I suspect someone got 1955 by carelessly copying "55 years old".
http://www.enworld.org/archive/index.php/t-176247.html contains the following:
09-30-06, 05:02 PM Today is Dave Arneson's 59th birthday.
Note that this assertion is confirmed on that page by Dustin Clingman, who works closely with Arneson. I consider that definitive.
2006 - 59 = 1947, so there we have September 30, 1947. A much more plausible date for publication in AHG v2n3 than 1955. Decompiler 10:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
A better link for this same source might: http://kevin-mayle.livejournal.com/25028.html Exact time of the ENWorld post might be hard to establish; LJ gives Kevin Mayle's home timezone as East Coast USA, which gives a better indication of the timezone in which the word "today" is to be understood. Decompiler 22:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Year of GenCon
"Arneson attended the Gen Con gaming convention for the first time in 1970, which was only its second annual meeting."
Something needs to be changed in this sentence, as both the Gen Con article and the Gary Gygax article say that GenCon started officially in 1968, making 1970 it's third outing, not the second. Does anyone have the correct information for this? 69.180.225.127 16:32, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I think this is just an error. All the sources I've seen have them correctly meeting in 1970, and the convention starting in 68. I changed it to "third." (See: http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/538/538262p3.html, which doesn't have the number but has the dates.)
Still not quite right, I think. From the Foreword to D.G.U.T.S. (Gygax/Arneson, intro by Gygax 1 October 1975): "During 1968 I began to gather material [towards DGUTS]... it wasn't until next year at the Lake Geneva wargames convention that things began moving again. There, Dave Arneson displayed some of his 1:1200 sailing ship models...." So, "next year" from 1968 = 1969. 1968 was indeed the first year of GenCon, and Gygax and Arneson did meet in the second annual GenCon - but that was 1969, not 1970. Since this text was written by Gygax much closer to the date the meeting than later interview sources, I'm inclined to follow it. Moreover, the gamespy article cited above has some sketchy dates (for example, it suggests a 1971 publishing date for DGUTS instead of 1972, the actual date of the first Guidon publication). The associated GameSpy interview with Arneson contains the following tell-tale mistake:
GameSpy: What was the first GenCon you went to? Arneson: Number two. GameSpy: That would have been in 1970? Arneson: I believe that was the one, yes.
Which leads me to believe that it was the interviewer who promulgated the erroneous idea that GenCon II was in 1970.
So, reverting it back to "second" and "1969". Decompiler 10:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Importance...
Is this really important to the article:
It all began with "Lets Pretend".
And lots of WCCO TV Saturday afternoon 'B' monster movies.
(MST3K also started here in Minnesota, not a coincidence.)
[edit] Rewrite?
This thing reads horribly. Any objections if I attempt a rewrite? Kythri 01:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
If this was rewritten, it's still really, really badly done. Many of the sentences under "Blackmoor", for instance, barely make sense. 24.163.208.79 04:50, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Citations badly needed!
This article makes a large number of not-generally-known and completely uncited details. Perhaps most notably, the article places the lion's share of credit for the development of modern role-playing games with Arneson. While it may be correct, it's a bold claim and requires supporting evidence. More aggressive editors than I would be tempted to delete the majority of the article. — Alan De Smet | Talk 04:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
- I've flagged a bunch of claims with "[citation needed]". If they're still uncited after a while, I'll just delete them. Note that if the only citations we can find are from Arneson himself (in the form of his own writing or interviews), we'll need to rewrite the claims in the form "Arneson claims". — Alan De Smet | Talk 00:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Revert of Gygax and Kask challenging Arneson's contributions
I reverted this edit. I originally did so because I overlooked the actual text addition; my apologies. However, upon reviewing the provided citation, it's pretty unconvincing. I'm not seeing Gygax saying anything (he may be there, but what's his username?). "kaskoid", on the other hand, does say things, and the evidence (especially the thread name) does suggest that he is Kask. But what does he say? Not much. He couches his claims is a goofy metaphor. He's not willing to come out and clearly state the situation and attach names. If Kask isn't willing to make a clear statement, why should we try to guess what he means? — Alan De Smet | Talk 00:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
- Mind you, if you can find a another reasonably reliable source that read Kask's claims and came to the same conclusions, you could cite that other source.
