Talk:Datura

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 Datura is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to plants and botany. For more information, visit the project page.
??? This article has not yet received a quality rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received an importance rating on the importance scale.
A mortarboard This article is part of WikiProject Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants, an attempt to improve Wikipedia's coverage of hallucinogens. Feel free to participate by editing this article or by visiting the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.

Contents

[edit] Old entries

Some of the info in this article looks doubtful to me:

  • All members of the family did the original anonymous author mean All members of the genus, or did he/she did mean family? If the latter, the text should be moved to the family.
    • Good question. In the context, I'm guessing he meant genus and going to fix it that way, but Solanaceae as a family are full of toxins aren't they? Even our good buddies the tomato and potato? Gzuckier 20:03, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Datura was supposedly used in witchcraft - how sure is this? are there any sources? This tidbit of information by now has spread to the german and dutch wikis, but are there any sources?

Prometheuspan 01:04, 10 February 2006 (UTC) Don't ask me to fetch them for you, but yes, its well established. The formulae called for mixing boiled liquid with several other plants, and applying it to the skin.

Alternately, and, maybe something we don't need to bother mentioning, the myth of Witches "flying" on brooms actually comes from using brooms to apply Datura and other substances intravaginally. (and Anally.) Prometheuspan 01:04, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

TeunSpaans 05:50, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

    • Back in the 60s, when grammie and grampie were wasting their youth in search of more substances to abuse, use of Datura was definitely 'borrowed' from shamanistic practices of the Native Americans (or Injuns, as they were known back then) as referenced in many books on suchlike topics. See also Carlos Castaneda, IIRC. Still many pages all over the Net detailing the use of Datura in 'Magick' rites. Kids! Don't try this at home! The stuff can be pretty damn fatal, ain't like smoking weed! Gzuckier 19:56, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Check Whiskey Rebellion reference

The article refers to British soldiers being sent to stop the Whiskey Rebellion, but that rebellion happened in 1794, after the US was independant from Britain. Wrong nationality? Wrong rebellion?

[edit] Photograph

I recently uploaded a bunch of photographs, among which one of a Datura, but I don't know which datura it is. I'd like to put it in the right location, so if anyone can identify it...? See User:DirkvdM/Photographs#Plants_and_Animals. DirkvdM 09:30, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Severed tongue/penis

Unless this allegation can be sourced it seems to be an urban legend and should be removed. Pacian 01:29, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Although im sure this carries no weight, i remember the severed penis story from when it first happened, opened my eyes to how scary this stuff is

Prometheuspan 01:01, 10 February 2006 (UTC) I think as a warning it is only half way there, and I'd rather see it deleted myself, its too off topic.

What we need is to point out that its potentially lethal if ingested, and that the effect is total suspension of reality for 3-12 days. Users should be in a safe place, and babysitters are an absolute necessity.

No sharp object should be accessible, no poisions should be accessible, dah dah dah...obvious stuff.

I don't think this page should become an extension of Erowid, so we don't need to be handing out safety tips. It should be facts about the plant, its' history, and the established pharmacology of its active ingredients and nothing more.

Kst447 (talk) 08:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lethality

somebody should mention somewhere in this article that ingesting any physical part of the actual plant can be lethal.

There are kids dying all the time from reading articles like this one which didn't mention this important problem.

Generally speaking, the only safe way to ingest Datura is as a Tea, and Witches made a lotion of it and put the lotion on their skin. Prometheuspan 00:57, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I was only looking this up after I was told a person who attended school in the grade below me died after taking datura. His story is here, if you care:

http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/tas/content/2003/s944974.htm

[edit] Shamanic Protocols

Also, I think that we should actually find and post the Shamanic protocols, or kill the article, because in this case, the Shamanic Protocols do mean the difference between life and death, and the protocols are the means by which theoretical responsible use becomes a reality.

[edit] Removed

Graham Phillips in "The Moses Legacy: The Evidence of History" suggests that a Sinai species of Thorn Apple was "the bush that burns", the "Burning Bush" of Moses and was used as an enthogen by the ancient Hebrews.

As there is no firm botanical evidence for this claim (i.e., Datura did not occur in Sinai at that time) - MPF 15:16, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Self mutilation

I found this on the Wikipedia penis removal page:

  • On 2003, a German student known just as "Andreas W", from Halle cut off his own penis and tongue with a pair of garden shears while under the influence of the deleriant drug datura. Neither organ was re-attached successfully.

Should this be mentioned in the page? I guess it's not uncommon to self-mutilate oneself when hallucinating, but the point is specific to datura. Jumping cheese Cont@ct 09:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ritual use

Datura is actually from sanskrit not hindi. It has been used in many religious rituals among some of the more esoteric hindu sects and still does in some. Perhaps this could be mentioned in the page?

In the eastern and north eastern part of India Datura or "Dhutra" as it is commonly known is a prime offering to Lord Siva on the night of Maha Sivaratri.

[edit] Effects of ingestion

The first paragraph of this section badly needs some inline references. It isn't necessarily inaccurate, just totally unsourced. (See the official-sounding explanation of the anecdotally reported blindness associated with ingestion. No offense intended, but where the hell did THAT come from?) Lou Sander (talk) 14:45, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Distribution

The first paragraph says the genus is probably native only to the Americas and that it was known in India millennia ago. Yeah? —Tamfang (talk) 22:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the editor(s) who wrote the geographical distribution material have been drinkin' a little Datura tea. Seems like a rewrite, complete with sourcing, is needed. Lou Sander (talk) 00:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)