Talk:Date rape drug

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Doesn't seem like this should necessarily redirect to Rape. —alxndr ^(t) 05:02, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Straw indicator? 2 MDMA - why is it listed? 3 Ketamine? Odorless? 4 Chloral hydrate 5 Covered drinks 6 More statistic, please! 7 Cleanup 8 Innacurate section 9 Ketamine 10 benzodiazapines and drug testing

[edit] Straw indicator?

I read in a Swedish science magazine about a straw that was used as an indicator if the drink was spiked or not? Some Scottish scientists had designed it. RGDS Alexmcfire

[edit] MDMA - why is it listed?

I can understand MDMA being used to make someone more loved up and touchy-feely, but i can't see it as a date-rape drug seeing as its an upper (methyl-dioxy-methamphetamine) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.138.8 (talk) 06:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

If MDMA can distort someone's decision making process, and they then have sex, the decision to have sex wouldn't be informed consent. A quick google returns lots of anecdotes, but I agree that the article is noticably lacking in that it doesn't describe how other classes of drugs (Psychotropics, Halucinogens, Stimulants) can also facilitate rape.

I don't want to see this page turn into a "Rapists Handbook" but I feel that victims seeing this page will have dificulty reconciling their experiences with wikipedia's definition of drug rape. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scruffy brit (talk • contribs) 10:19, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ketamine? Odorless?

Companies around the world are making or trying to make paper coasters or drink stirries that change color when dabbed with a drink doctored with a date rape drug. These colorless and odorless tranquillisers can lull victims into a semi-comatose state, leaving them unable to remember what happened to them.

Ketamine may be colorless and is largely odorless, it is a strong HCl salt, and I have heard that it is extremely salty/bitter. It seems like it would be an inappropriate "date rape drug" - are there any news articles out there about this? I have a feeling that the use of ketamine as a date rape drug is more exaggerated than the "date rape drug" phenomena in general- while it has happened, and it's #$@%ING TERRIBLE when it does, it's probably just not terribly common. Overand 06:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

To comment on this, I don't believe the taste of it would be too noticeable in an average sized drink, as the dosage is rather small (~80 mg oral I believe). GHB on the other hand has a dosage of 1-3g and has an extremely salty flavor as stated in the article. (Sorry if this isn't the proper format for commenting, first time)

Ketamine has an extremely strong taste and would require a significant dose to be effective orally.On Thermonuclear War (talk) 03:51, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

-- I'm removing the bolder section on GHB, based on these comments. If someone has evidence that it is actually being used this way, please feel free to re-add the section containing this information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.81.225.212 (talk) 21:47, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I added it back. The first two parts of the GHB section even have a citation. If you had ever tasted GHB you wouldn't need a citation on the third paragraph. I know that's not verifiable since it's only personal experience, so feel free to make small edits to the third paragraph, but I'd really rather find a reliable citation on the taste. There are plenty of web sites out there that discuss it, but they all seem to be copied out of DEA propaganda rather than reliable information. Gigs (talk) 20:47, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chloral hydrate

What about slipping someone a Mickey - is Chloral hydrate a date rape drug, or could date rape drugs be considered a Mickey. - Matthew238 04:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Chloral Hudrate was once a common date rape drug waaay back before there was even such a term, but it now has, and has had for decades, an added very strong and disagreable flavor added. It is so strong that it has to be taken diluted in very sweet or strong tasting juice such as white or purple grape juice or something like V8 Splash. I have a prescription for it for insomnia and/or infrequent panic issues and I can barely gag the stuff down. Even an amount as small as a quarter teaspoon would be noticeable in an average drink uncless it was say, a Gin gimlet (Gin and lime juice) and even then, it would still have an astringent effect on the back of throat.(kinda like if you drink choke cherry juice) The standard dosing is a teaspoon and I have to mix that with at least 10 ounces of V8 Splash Mango just to mask the taste. I don't know how dentists manage to get kids to take it. (It's a common pediatric sedative). My guess is it's mixed with grape juice or grape flavor.LiPollis 00:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Covered drinks

According to a TV documentary I watched, in some city (Paris? Berlin?) glasses are served with a cover for rape fears. --Error 00:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More statistic, please!

The study from the UK is great, but more statistics like it are needed. The idea of "Data Rape Drugs" is propoganda churned out by American media to support the government's War on drugs. As in most anti-drug propoganda, Ethanol is the largest offender in the class of complaints, and for whatever reason, society seems to be able to tolerate that drug but not others. Note the use of the language "drugs and alcohol" in the "Combating the drugs" section; Somehow "alcohol" is seperate from "drugs", and since we have a War on drugs we need to Combat them.

[edit] Cleanup

I attempted some cleanup. I think the bottom section is a little more coherent now. It probably needs a few more once-overs though before we can take off the tag. Gigs 01:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Innacurate section

"It should be pointed out that both GHB and the short acting Benzodiazapines are difficult to identify in the victims after the fact. A victim who waits several hours before reporting the incident or having a blood or urine test may still test negative even though the victim was under the influence of one of these drugs just hours earlier. The short duration and high level of effectiveness of these drugs combine with alcohol to make it a very powerful and very difficult to detect drug.[citation needed] There is a synergistic effect when combined with another depressant such as alcohol. A small amount of GHB and several drinks will put most people in the hospital and can very easily cause respiratory arrest.

Most rape victims arrive for a medical evaluation hours after the incident and usually after waking up the next morning. A time lapse of 10 to 12 hours is common and by that point in time, evidence of a drugging would be gone.[citation needed]"

This section is almost completely at odds with Flunitrazepam#Drug-facilitated_sexual_assault, Benzodiazepine#Duration_of_action, and Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid#As_a_date_rape_drug. These sections cite their sources, and could be drawn from to re-write the current, paragraph cited above. Penguinwithin (talk) 01:40, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I can only agree with the above comments and can easily qualify what's been referenced i.e. all drugs breakdown in the body and it's those products that can be identified.

I believe that the whole section should be removed due to it's innacuracy. If any references to the contary appear then reinstate it. Drag09 (talk) 10:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how inaccurate that is really. GHB is completely metabolized rather quickly, and completely, and after 12-24 hours it would be difficult to detect any metabolites. I should also mention, GHB and compounds like GHB naturally occur in the body, which clouds the issue. This is an issue when doing post mortems on drug overdoses, because upon death, the body generates large quantities of GHB-like substances which, to the uninitiated, may make it look like a GHB overdose. This fact was exploited by lawmakers and the media, ascribing deaths to GHB overdose that were really congenital heart defect deaths. Gigs (talk) 07:17, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ketamine

It seems like ketamine is frequently included in discussions of date rape drugs based on the idea that it could be used as one. I have not seen even one actual citation to it ever having been used as one. It's extremely strong taste and short duration of action make it seem like an unlikely candidate. Regardless, without some kind of cite, it seems irresponsible to include it here.On Thermonuclear War (talk) 03:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] benzodiazapines and drug testing

The claims that benzodiazapines are not able to be detected the day after they are ingested is just plain wrong. Benzodiazapines (including rohypnol) are detectable for a good 3 days after use. In fact, this claim is contradicted by reference #5. On Thermonuclear War (talk) 04:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

AlcoholLink title

maybe should have the wording changed as this is not considered the case in many countries e.g. the UK, (And in Saudi Arabia it is a legal reason to commit an act that you would normally not if under intoxicated by alcohol - with no repercussions other than having consumed alcohol) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.177.99.147 (talk) 02:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)