Talk:Darren M Jackson/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Comment

Resolved.

This page is part a Romany wikipedia project, and is part of a comprehensive list of Bare knuckle fighter, see list of bare knuckle fighters.

Web content and references have been used to prove notable person.

Keep page

Resolved.

As above see web content.Diamonddannyboy (talk)

The article is part of a list of bare knuckle fighters [[1]]Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 09:15, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


Keep page Diamonddannyboy (talk)

Hang on

Resolved.

see external link on artcile, proves notable. Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:55, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

More web content Keep

Resolved. ref added. Benjiboi 20:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[[2]] Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 13:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Meets Criteria For Notabilty

Meets criteria under wikipedia basic criteria WP:ATHLETE. Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:10, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Competitors and coaches who have competed in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, golf or tennis.Diamonddannyboy (talk)

Above is the criteria for notabilty of an Athlete, Jackson has competed in in a fully professional league. Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 19:14, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

In order to claim notability under WP:ATHLETE, you must establish that the level that he competes at is of equivalent standing to a fully professional league.
The key word here is fully. Hence, we can see that (for example) a footballer who plays at semi-pro level wouldn't meet the criteria. Given that this includes all UK football leagues below league two, we can see that it is a fairly high bar.
So, the questions that we must ask are;
  • Does Jackson make his living from Boxing?
  • Is the particular brand of boxing that Jackson participates in officially recognised as a sport? (this isn't trying to open any discussion about whether it is or is not a sport, merely whether its governing body is recognised by Sport England or similar)
  • Is Jackson at least as well known as people at the lowest end of fully professional football/cricket?
Mayalld (talk) 21:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I have without doubt claimed notabilty under WP:ATHLETE Jackson has competed fully in a professional league, see pro fight record from sherdog, this proves pro fighter in MMA, aslo even if he fell under the amateur sport, he has competed in prestigious events, see ukmmac 6. The basic criteria for notability guide lines set out by wikipedia does not state that, we must compare a fully competeing professional fighter to a low end cricket player.Diamonddannyboy (talk) Jackson is as notable as any other cage fighter on wikipedia. Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 07:45, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

  • No, it doesn't say that. It is however a fair question to ask. Given that people at the top end of semi-pro sports are NOT inherently notable, is Jackson more or less notable than Paul Phillips (Goalkeeper for Droylsden FC). The point being that the bar on notability is set reasonably high.
  • We haven't actually established whether Jackson meets the "fully professional" criteria. Does he actually make his living from this - it isn't enough that he makes some money from it, it must be his main or only source of income. Otherwise he is semi-pro, and doesn't meet the criteria.
  • Neither have we established that MMA is actually a sport. Is the governing body of MMA recognised by a national sports governing body?
  • Finally, have we established that ukmmac is a prestigious competition

Mayalld (talk) 08:02, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Reply

No your wrong i'm afraid to say, we have proved that Jackson meets the "fully professional" due to fact that the external link to Darren Jackson Pro MMA record by sherdog and also the one by mma universe both say Pro Record meening professional not semi pro. Who knows what Jackson's income is to compete in a fully professional league does not meen he does not have any other income some of the top uk footballer like Beckham have other sources income, I would take a quess and say Beckham earns more off the field than he does on it. Also use this proves that MMA is actually a sport and its governed by these International Sport Combat Federation this is the natioal governing body for MMA and there are talk to amke it a oylimic sport. I would also say that UK MMAC is a world championships with world title, with fighter from all over the world, and cage rage they fight at wembley, so I would agian put my neck on the line and say it pretty dam prestigious. Also it was you who said not to compare other work, I dont care if Jackson is or is not as notable as Paul Phillips, each person is notable in there owne merit and should not be compared, but Jackson is as notable as any UK MMA fighter on wikipedia, is Jackson as notable as Lee Murray. Is Ian Freeman as notable as William willett who cares, totally different people. Argue ment closed Jackson meet notable under WP:ATHLETE oh and if MMA is not a sport perhaps you would like to put Mixed Martial Arts up for deletion oh perhap Cage Rage Championship and the list of male mixed martial artist oh and the ulitmate fighting challenge and so onDiamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 11:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Notable amateur

Even if Jackson fulls under the lower end of Amateur sport, he must compete in th emost prestigious events, he competed in cage fighter and united kingdom mixed martial art championships, which are the most prestigious in the uk.Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 07:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Does Jackson make a living from boxing

See above for pro fight record from sherdog, to be a professional fighter, means you are a professional meening you get paid. Because a fighter retires does it meen he was not a professional, Chris Eubanks not not get paid for boxing any more none the less he still notable, Jackson still competes, and is a professional cage fighter, YES he does get paid, other wise it would say semi pro fight record, or even amateur fight record. Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 07:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

  • The Sherdog link you referenced earlier shows only a single fight. Do you know of anything more substantial that could be used? Bilby (talk) 11:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
  • The sherdog show one fight, the mma universe show two fights and the gangster video shows two fights at the prestigious ceasers palace London, also show that Jackson has been On a DVD, also other references to Jackson beeing in main stream magazine that are world wide like fighters magazine, tried to down load pics, maydall put them up for deletion. Diamonddannyboy (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 12:16, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

References

Fought for Valhalla Combat but was not really that successfull in the ring/cage, due to the rules and wearing of gloves.See uk fight record for MMA [1]

Due to fact of bare knuckle fighting being illegal, not much is known of the wins and fights of Darren M Jackson. Yet is was said in a combat magazine to be over 100.

Jackson fought on the under card of a world title fight that cage fighter Mark Epstein won [2]

Jackson Fought in the UK mixed martial championships [3]

Jackson is a keen writer of boxing articles [4]

Jackson was featured in fighters magazine [5]

Jackson was featured in a Newspaper with Debate with MP Dr Howard Stoate [6]

Along with being featured in adsence [7] Valhalla Combat the club Jackson trained at was mentioned in Fighter Mag [8] Added another reliable source reference to bar knuckle fighter Jackson. [9]

Cleanup

  • I've done what I can to tidy it up, but it still needs work. I figured those voting on the AfD should see it in prose, although the referencing is still incomplete, and I'm not sure of all the claims. My major problem is still the references - Diamonddannyboy, while the list you gave is good, to establish notability it either needs to be proven that he fought at the highest level or that he received sufficient coverage in notable sources. I can't confirm your sources, though, as The Gazette & Times don't seem to have online archives (presuming I found the right website), and Fighters Magazine (presuming, once again, that I found the right site) only has archives for 2007. I don't even know what Adscence is. :) Academically, I can't use material that I haven't seen, so the best I could do was move things around. Hopefully someone else will be able to do more for the article. - Bilby (talk) 16:51, 14 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bilby (talk • contribs) 16:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment I have copies of the fighter Magazine but sadly can't find on-line reference, also I can't download the magazine because of copy right, there is also pics of one of Jacksons fighter at ringpic.co.uk but this also is a copyright issue, so without being able to put the mag on, I think im now done and nothing can be done any more, but it will be shame if it is deleted, also with bare knuckle fighting and Romany people keeping them slef to them selfs, I very much doubt any more can be done. 09:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Diamonddannyboy (talk • contribs)
Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archives

I've created an archive of the talk page - the issues have been resolved, and now of the discussions are currently active. Bilby (talk) 23:33, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup

Glad to see that the article has been cleaned up a bit. Tags are added for a reason, and it is always better to try and address the issues than to knee-jerk remove tags. Mayalld (talk) 20:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Tags Removed

Tags removed because I refed where needed check history log Diamonddannyboy (talk) 20:30, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Missing result?

Is this the same Darren Jackson, and a missing result?

Mayalld (talk) 20:39, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes this is the same Darren Jackson and it is not missing a result, it does not go in mma record because it was a Muay Thai fight, aslo it is refed to say Jackson fought on under card of world title of Mark Epstein, Im getting sick of your petty comments, and I have spoken to many other editors who feel the same. It seems to me you have little or know knowledge of any of the fighting arts, I would say your editing skills would be best used else where thanks for your input06:48, 29 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.210.142.1 (talk)

  • Thanks for clearing that up, but it was a valid question - the distinction between Muay Thai fights and MMA isn't clear to the rest of us and my understanding was that Mayalld was just checking to see if it should be listed in the MMA results. - Bilby (talk) 07:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment Know sorry i don,t agree I believe he was being petty, Jackson has fought on numerous undercard world titles, and I could ref all those from ukmma 6 and 8 whats the point.What I have read of other MMA artciles on wiki, this one is good, perhaps Mayalld great editing skills would be best used on other wiki projects, as he has know knowledge of martial arts. 07:42, 29 March 2008 (UTC