Talk:Darken

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	comics Portal This article is in the scope of WikiProject Comics, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to comics on Wikipedia. Get involved! Help with current tasks, visit the notice board, edit the attached article or discuss it at the project talk page.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. Please explain the rating here.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
More information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Related work groups (general): Webcomics work group

This article was nominated for deletion on November 26, 2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

The reasons given for deletion made no sense. If anything needs verifying, it can be verified by checking the website itself. As for importance, if other webcomics on Keenspot can have articles, why not this one? They are all of equal importance.

Contents 1 Cast Descriptions 2 Verifiability and notability? 3 details of the game and setting 4 Copyedit

[edit] Cast Descriptions

Do we really need two sections devoted to cast? Perhaps we should limit this to just the official character descriptions, with just a couple of notable plot points mixed in, maybe with some references to the archived comics where they occured. This is a major change to the article, so I felt in my newbness that I must bring it up here before I wantonly delete/reorganize more than half the article.--NicholaiDaedalus 19:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

• No response? Very well, it shall be edited!--NicholaiDaedalus 20:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Verifiability and notability?

(paragraphed moved by NicholaiDaedalus to "details of the game and setting" 11/28/06)

For notability, I question the claim made in the most recent return of the deletion tag that being on Keenspot doesn't mark something as notable. Come on. Keenspot has a category of its own, it did and still does host a number of well-known webcomics (as far as fame among webcomics goes) -- so if any of those are notable, Keenspot itself is, and there's no reason to ditch the more recent members of Keen, either. To get on Keenspot generally means one has garnered a fair bit of attention already, and has at least the potential to bring in a lot more once it's actually on Keenspot. I know we're not necessarily talking newspaper distribution numbers even today, but it's not insignificant, either. And I'm not saying this as a fan of the comic, either; I'll say the same for comics I don't read, don't care to read, or even actively dislike on Keenspot. Nerrin 04:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed a bunch of stuff added by an original player of the game, cause it didn't add to anything and pretty much just confused stuff. It's only verifiable info up there now.

Read WP:V. Verifiability needs to be from a none bias crediable thrid party source, such as a reveiw of some sort. Also, it has been established that being on Keenspot doesn't make the comic notable. Check Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sorcery_101 and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/No_Pink_Ponies

Fair enough. What would count a webcomic as notable, exactly? Are only ones such as Penny Arcade 'notable'?

Dear lord, I wasn't aware that so many people are flat out denying that Keenspot is well-known. See Talk:Keenspot#Keenspot notability. I will bring this up at WP:WEB.

BTW guys, remember to sign your posts. –  Anþony  talk  07:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Regardless as to whether or not Keenspot was notable in the past during the Sorcery 101 and No Pink Ponies deletions, it seems to me that Keenspot is obviously notable now. As such, all Webcomics hosted on Keenspot should be considered as being notable, in much the same way that a comic strip in the New York Times would be considered notable. I also don't believe it is fair to base webcomic notability on sources outside of the webcomic comunity, which is by nature a niche market. -NicholaiDaedalus, 11/28/06

I really don't understand what that mess about webcomics on Wikipedia is about. What the heck is this "notability" thing about ? Should we remove entries in regular enciclopedia just because most people do not know what this entry is about, or because they are not of utter importance ? Then, I guess we should start deleting entries about Georges W Bush, after all he's only one of many presidents in a single country in the world. Or maybe Abraham Lincoln, that's such old news, no one cares, I guess. Maybe the whole cooking section should be deleted too, this ain't a reciepe website. See where I'm going ? Until now, I had seen Wikipedia as a major source for ALL KINDS of informations, academic, important ones, as well as trivial ones that you might have trouble to find anywhere else. Now, I'm starting to think I should better get a subscription to the nearby library, like in the days of old. They're going to a deletion spree, deleting anything webcomic related ? And that's because it's not "notable" ? I've seen stupid arguments like "when it will have a show on a national TV network, maybe it's notable". Okay... Define "national" on a world-wide website then. I'm french, so I doubt the idea behind "national" was in any way related to what I consider "national". As far, off-sea, and of minor importance I may be (should I say that I am not "notable" ?), I have been reading some of those deleted webcomics for a while, and I do consider that this kind of media at a whole is a notable enough phenomenon to be kept tracked in this so called "people made encyclopedia". The narrow-minded view of a few idiots who still think the world goes no further than what they can see from their windows should NOT prevail when it comes to define sources of information. As for verifiability... Did anyone care to seek if characters named in Stephen King's novel really existed in the place he put them ? No ? Well, probably because it's fictional characters and as such, nothing can be verified. Should we start to remove every fiction-related entry because not everything in it can be verified ? Give me a reason to find an excuse to delete something I don't like, and I'll find you a reason. Or maybe people could start acting like they're a bit more than 3 years old and accept that even non-mainstream media are somewhat notable, interesting, and acknowledge by enough people around the world to be worth an entry on the people-made information database. If you really feel like deleting stuff, get to clear the porn section, most pages in there are poorly disguised advertising for webstites. Well, at least people know those people, so they meet the "notability" requirement. Am I the only one to find it stupid ? - Uriel, non-member of Wikipedia, and now proud of it, at your service - 02/12/07

[edit] details of the game and setting

For verifiability, the only issue I see, lacking the, ahem, vast and unspoken insight of the original tagger might be in the details of the game and setting, which aren't explicitly given in the comic itself. For example, I'd never heard of the other characters in the game but not in the comic, nor anything in the section on the game itself. Did these get explained on the comic's forum, or on someone's LiveJournal? Well, not everyone reads that sort of stuff even if they jump for each new update, and it'd be a questionable or (at best) all-too-temporary source of information. So there may be some merit to the claim there, or whether these details necessarily need to be housed on Wikipedia. Nerrin 04:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC) (paragraph relocated by NicholaiDaedalus from "Verifiability and notability?" 11/28/06)

In reference to the "details of the game and setting" as mentioned above, this should not be an issue for verifiability, since the Author herself refers to the comic as loosely based on the Dungeons and Dragons game, but it does not actually exist within the D&D setting. Nor does it say anywhere on the site that it has anything to do with the game. The closest it comes to saying anything like that is the disclaimer at the bottom that says that "some names and monster designs are borrowed from Wizards of the Coast." This certainly doesn't qualify as being subject to verifiability. Are we to try and source a world that the artist created? How would you go about doing that? The world setting of Darken is unique to the comic and does not exist in D&D. And while concepts of the comic are similar to D&D, there is nothing to indicate that the content is subject to the framework of the game in any way. -NicholaiDaedalus, 11/27/06

[edit] Copyedit

Hi everyone - I have done a fairly major copyedit on this article. I can't say I know a lot about the subject matter, but my experience as an editor means I have been able to determine what should stay and what should go. Obviously, character summaries lifted wholesale from another site had to to go, not to mention the way they were written.

Of course, there is now less information than before, though what remains should be of a more encyclopaedic nature. If the amount of information is a concern to you, please add what you feel is relevant and in a tone suitable for Wikipedia. Please do not revert these changes. Issues should be brought up on this article's talk page, or my own talk page.

Thank you. Goldbringer 00:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)