Talk:Dark Kingdom

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Sailor Moon
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[edit] Queen Metaria?

I was just leafing through my new cover editions of the japanese language Sailor Moon manga and noticed that Act 12 is titled "Queen Metaria". Queen Metallia is obviously recognized by a wider group of people, and I personally think it sounds better, but if there is any logic behind this spelling (other than the interchangeable nature of R and L in the Romanization of the Japanese written language.), then it should be given credence. The manga is an official and canonical source of information, and the "Metaria" spelling is seen on the opening page of act 12 (vol.3, pg.5 new cover edition) as well as in the table of contents (vol.3, pg.8 new cover edition), so it may not just be a one off typo. Google only returned 1,030 results for the "Queen Metaria" spelling, but the source showing this spelling is relatively new, and the poularity of any given topic can have little or nothing to do with said topic's legitimacy. A prominent supporter of the "Metaria" spelling, Ian Miller of Dies Gaudii has this to say on the subject:

http://antares7.absoludicrous.net/minerals/darkkingdom/index.html

However, I have noticed that his opinion is genrally mud with a few editors here, and me being a relative newbie, I find it would ill behoove me to stir things up. My opinion is that it makes very little difference in the long run, but whichever is more appropriate should be used for the article. What are your opinions on this, everyone?

Davi Williams 07:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)Davi Williams

  • Heh, "his opinion is... mud"... Hitsuji Kinno can explain why that is. It's a source of a lot of contention for reasons that are somewhat beyond my ken as a mere SM "enthusiast"... Personally, I'd go with Metallia, as Metaria makes the whole thing feel otaku-ish. Danny Lilithborne 07:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I am keen to agree with you on the spelling, Danny Lilithborne, but I thought it was a viable topic for discussion. I generally have no opinion on Ian Miller, he was just the most vocal proponent of the "Metaria" spelling I could find. Davi Williams 07:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Then there's the "Selenity" thing... sssh... don't speak up too much about it or CureWhite might come back... Danny Lilithborne 07:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Basically, it's just a difference in romanization. The names of the Witches 5 are spelled slightly differently in the anime, as well. The main reason that "Metallia" is used over "Metaria", is because almost all main villains' names are derived from a metal, a mineral or a gemstone. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 08:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Arbitrarily declaring things "canonical" is against Wikipedia neutrality policy. Unless the author of the work declares one form or another, it can't be done. There is the R/L issue and also remember that there were other mispellings in the manga re-release. We should footnote it and move on. --Kunzite 14:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Wait wait wait. Is it spelled 'Metaria' in romaji? --Masamage 19:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with footnoting it. The manga is not considered canon? Davi Williams 20:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Is it spelled in romaji or not? If not, nothing is decided. If it is, then Metaria is the official romanization. This is an important detail. --Masamage 23:58, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry Masamage, missed it when you asked the first time. "Queen Metaria", spelled out in romaji, twice (vol.3 pgs.5&8). By the way, Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Yanks. Davi Williams 03:20, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I romanized the name on the main page, as well. Going off the Katakana, it is spelled Kuin Metaria in Japanese. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 08:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't have my manga on me (home for Thanksgiving), but all I can find online is the name spelled out in hiragana, as here, not in romaji. --Masamage 22:51, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
That's Katakana. It's spelled out in rōmaji in the re-released tankōbon. (image here) The same set of releases also had a name spelled "Deth Fantom." It also may be worth point out that "petit étranger", which refers to Chibi-Usa, should be written "petite ètrangere". --Kunzite 00:02, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't know if I recieved a different new cover edition volume 5 then everyone else in the world, but mine says "Death Phantom" in romaji, in the table of contents and on page 142. Mine also didn't have the sticker sheets that other volumes had...I'm guessing that that is a revision to the revisions. I'll see if I can't scan the pages with "Death Phantom", if anyone cares...Davi Williams 00:51, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Death Phantom was shown in the 2nd editions of the Manga, which had spelling corrections of English words. 1st Edition wrote "Deth Fantom" and then Naoko released the 2nd editions that featured correct English spellings such as "Death Phantom". As I have yet to receive all of my PGSM Manga from Japan, I cannot verify whether or not Queen Metaria is still present, but I can safely say "Death Phantom" is his correct name as I have seen the scanned contents page. Fighter4luv 13:01, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


I just received my second edition of volume 3 of PGSM, and it's still spelled as QUEEN METARIA in two instances. Since there have been no reported mistakes in Naoko's second edition volumes, it's only natural for us to presume that METARIA is her intended name. Also, I noticed that earlier someone was "correcting" an error that Naoko was supposed to had made with "Petite ètrangere", the actual katakana that she uses for the terms for "petit: puchi" and "étranger: etoranze" which is a French term for "Small Stranger". So Naoko's romaji of those two words are actually correct. So, there is no reason that METARIA would be wrong either. Fighter4luv 14:56, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
So if the mangaka herself is deliberately choosing "Metaria" as the official romanization, the article should reflect this, right? Unless someone can produce another canonical source stating that "Metallia" is more appropriate, there's no reason to perpetuate it just because it's the most "popular" spelling when actual canon is supporting the other spelling. I'm updating the article to reflect this.Rebochan 14:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dark Sailor Mercury

This makes the third article that talks about DSM, which by my count is too many. Thoughts? --Masamage 00:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Nah... Its just a copy and paste of whats in Ami's. Itss fine Lego3400: The Sage of Time 01:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DD Girls

Could we get a bit more info for them cuase i found this really nice image of the DD Girls Image:Ddgirls.gif (Could someone turn that into a link?? Thanks)Lego3400: The Sage of Time 01:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

it looks like a dark kingdom page 3 photo shoot lol sailor cuteness-ready for love 10:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
It's a link now. Where'd the image come from? --Masamage 17:23, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
The oracle's Yourma Section.Lego3400: The Sage of Time
That's not what I mean, but I guess we can ask her where she got it. --Masamage 19:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I can get a remastered image of the D.D. Girls from my Toei DVDs if needed. Just let me know. Fighter4luv 13:03, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
That would be great! It would remove the hassle of tracking down a source. --Masamage 19:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Masamage, here is the URL for the D.D. Girls image. It took me a while matching up the two shots to make a full body shot of them from the episode #045, but I think it turned out alright. Please let me know once you have saved it so I can remove it from my server. http://www.moonlightsoldiers.com/d-d-girls1.jpg -- also I have just changed domains for my site and I think there is a link to my site (sailormoon-universe.com) on one of the Sailor Moon pages to my "Voice Performances" section. I will try and find it and update it to my new domain (moonlightsoldiers.com). Fighter4luv 15:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Looks fantastic! I've uploaded it. :D Thanks~ --Masamage 20:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad you liked the image I put together, and thank you for crediting me. I was just thinking if the fact that the D.D. Girls were based on a popular J-POP band (C.C. Girls) which released their first album in 1992, should be put somewhere... Trivia or something (although there is no official source stating). C.C. Girls have only four members, so I'm guessing the anime director made it their own by making it the D.D Girls and having 5. The hairstyles of the 4 band members are shown resembling that of the D.D Girls http://www.rie-f.com/profile/gif/CCG.gif. My theory of it is that C.C could be the fact there is 2 Cs for ABCC - 4 members... and the anime did the same, but one step further, ABCDD - 5 youma. I could be wrong... but the resemblance between the anime and the real life people is really amazing. Also, the band seemed to have a lot of publicity photos taken in their bathing suites/undergarments... so we know where they got the idea for that one... maybe the character designer was a fan of their music? NOTE: They were also known as D.D. Gaps till the start of 1992 then they became the C.C. Girls (C.C.ガーリズ) <- same katakana too! :P. ~ Fighter4luv 08:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Huh. I wish there was an article about the CC Girls; then we could wikilink to it. --Masamage 18:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Ah huh. I just found it interesting that the D.D. Girls were possibly based on the C.C.Girls pop group. ~ Fighter4luv 14:53, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

  • Head Shot of Darkury (Can also be used on ami's page)
  • PGSM shot of Queen Beryl
  • Danburite (Can also be used on the Sailor V page)
  • Group Head shot of the Generals (Also for use on their page)
  • A Random Yourma AND/OR the DD girls (The DD Girls image was delated due to being orphened. Should we re upload it?)
  • A PGSM Yourma
  • Mio
  • A shot showing Beryl's original form next to her regular form (composite)

Not only will it help ilustarte these characters, some of them can be used in 2 places, and it will make the page look nicer... We also need to find a better place to put the image of, as another story calls her, "Super Beryl"... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs)

We already have the groupiest group shot that exists of the Shitennou. Unless you mean PGSM. And the DD Girls image was great, we just need to know where it came from before we can use it. --Masamage 22:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
should we put in the game another story so pepole wont think its a random another story--♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 23:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
We're not using an Another Story image, he was just saying that in that game, they call her Super Beryl. It's the one we have now at the top of the page. And yeah, we need a better place. --Masamage 00:35, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

We should rearrange Beryls images to go with the sections the image is of. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs)

I don't think a picture of her 'good' self is necessary. All it is is a different dress. Furthermore, why don't we just get rid of the Super Beryl pic entirely? It's not doing us any good, and we could find a wayyyy better picture of the interior Dark Kingdom to replace it. --Masamage 17:41, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
She also has black hair as her good self...--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 21:19, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I guess. There's not a lot of room, though. --Masamage 21:31, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I Moved the Super Beryl shot down to Metallia's section as it talks about that form in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs)

Ok, I got a new Beryl Shot for the anime (The old one was from the opening and wasn't very good) as well as a PGSM shot. The PGSM shot is kinda bad but it was the only one i could find. One of us will have to take a screen shot ourselves --Lego3400: The Sage of Time 18:11, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: the DD Girls shot, it should only be reuploaded if we can source it. Fighter4luv offered to get one, though. --Masamage 19:34, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mio

The rest of her info should probalby be moved over here... Seeing as we moved everyone else out.. Replace whats there with whats here.--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that is that having her character bio in 'Dark Kingdom' is a humungous spoiler, considering that she's first introduced as a generically snobby girl. It may be safer to move everything that's here over there and just link over? --Masamage 19:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

good point I now know almost evreything that happnes in Pgsm and iv never seen a epesode ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love♥ 19:08, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE: DD Girls

The shot is from the anime with the background cut out... Thats all it is. I was Watching an AMV and the dd girls appeared and they were standing in that pose Lego3400: The Sage of Time 23:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re Images

Since the youma have a whole part about PGSM, should we include and image of a PGSM youma?Lego3400: The Sage of Time 15:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Sure, I think so. --Masamage 18:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Almost forgot about this.. I'll get on this when i return home to kill time till my parents give me my b-day gifts <_<Lego3400: The Sage of Time 15:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

should we have pgsm queen metallia image? ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 16:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
She's already got three. o_O --Masamage ♫ 17:47, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
but she's so good looking lolz ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 20:24, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] rita

Is Queen Beryl based on Rita from power rangers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Big bad bat (talk • contribs)

Nope, Beryl came first by a year or two. (Please sign your comments by typing four ~s after them!) --Masamage ♫ 00:15, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Is Rita based on Bery then because ther the same both just yell and don't do anything Big bad bat 13:52, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Not true Queen Beryl destroyed the Moon Kingdom with Queen Metallia and stabed Prince Endymion in the back with a rock :P and I think she did a lot more in the Manga. Rita on the other hand just yelled and got headaches. ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 13:58, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
An evil queen is a stock character in fantasy settings - you might as well ask if Rita and Queen Beryl are based on the evil queen from Snow White! Please try to discuss the article itself, not the subject of the article, as Wikipedia is not a forum.-Malkinann 14:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
She did do a lot more in the manga. And I'm not sure what role Rita took in the Japanese Super Sentai series. Anywho, Malkinann has a good point. There are a lot of evil queens even in very old texts, like the Bible. --Masamage ♫ 06:07, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
sorry I just thought they were similar to each other (I also thought Doom phantom was based on lord Zedd but I guess its also not true) Big bad bat 17:17, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Plus Beryl is tall, proud, regal and commanding. Rita however is short, fat, vulgar and annoying. Furthermore I fail to see any correlation between Lord Zedd and Death Phantom/Wiseman. --Jupiter Optimus Maximus (talk) 13:36, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Break up Beryl?

We should probably add some subheaders under beryl as her section has grown quite long and is on the verge of becomeing disorganized. If anything, Dub Beryl needs a sub header as that is quite long. I'm not sure if PGSM or Manga version of her have enogugh info to split them into sub sections... Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 14:49, 29 November 2007 (UTC) I went to do it but I didn't save it... I wasn't quite sure what do with the section about actresses and such.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 14:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I wonder if it's expanded enough that she now deserves to have her own article again? I'd probably vote yes on that; she's probably the only villain other than Galaxia to have enough information to get an article by herself. There was even a doll made of her, and it was the only one Naoko liked. :D I'll link this discussion from the project page. --Masamage ♫ 23:49, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm not really with you guys on this one. There is hardly enough information in there to make sure its notability makes guidelines. I see one reference for the entire section and its mostly plot related. While plot related stuff is good, too much is considered fancruft. I suggest moving it 'only' if you guys, or myself if I find the time, can get some more out of universe information. Zemalia 13:35, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh, we totally can. Like the doll, and how she was sufficiently popular to be brought back and join Galaxia in the Musicals. There are a lot of details on her character design, too, and probably something in that Warriors book... --Masamage ♫ 17:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
If we do give her her own page (Which I totally support), we should probably move Mio from the PGSM page to that page since she IS made from Beryl. There are alot of things we could cover about Beryl that we don't mention because we want to save room, we barely touch on her PGSM, Manga or Musical Selves (Then again, our info on those is sadly lacking in most areas) --Lego3400: The Sage of Time 18:48, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
She's made from Beryl, but she's got a pretty separate personality and purpose. I think it's pretty important to mention her in both places, like the way we have Dark Mercury at both Sailor Mercury and this article. Plot stuff at the PGSM article; shadow-self stuff here? With a link between, of course. --Masamage ♫ 19:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Then that's fine with me. I don't have a problem with it as long as there's enough for notability. I don't know how many times I've had to help or suggest merging because of that.. *sighs* Character design is good, but I never heard about that musicals stuff. Do we have a source for it? Zemalia 21:41, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah; we can quote the song lyrics directly even if nothing else. --Masamage ♫ 03:33, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I guess we should put a proposed move template on her section so anyone browsing knows and can chime in--Lego3400: The Sage of Time 14:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Good call. --Masamage ♫ 18:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vote here please

Please list Support, Oppose or neutral or a strong variant along with a reason please.

  • Support — Is quite long and we could cover so much more than we feel safe to cover in the group article. I also hope we can eventually give others such as Nehelenia the same treatment. Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 16:39, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I'd rather see the references used to argue that we should have a separate Queen Beryl article used in this article first before any split. -Malkinann (talk) 23:59, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment' You do raise a good point though. I guess I'm asking for a vote on step 3 before we do step 2.
  • Oppose There already have been separate articles for Beryl, Nehellenia and many of the other villain characters. Let's not repeat the problems caused back then. JuJube (talk) 07:24, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment That was before. Our standards have improved quite alot. I should also point out that Like Galaxia, Takeuchi-sama actully deitailed Beryl's orgins and history. Lots of othe villens, Mistress 9 and Gemnatoad for example, didn't get nearly as fleshed out from what i've seen. Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 13:49, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Conditional support per Malkinann. Let's do it here first, then split. --Masamage ♫ 16:05, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Consensus?

Would it be appropriate to describe the consensus on the proposed Queen Beryl split as "Reference in Dark Kingdom first, and rediscuss a split at a later date"? -Malkinann (talk) 00:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

That seems accurate. But it's also identical to my vote, so you'll want to hear from the others too. X) --Masamage ♫ 00:59, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
We could do a tester page first to see how it looks for Beryl alone and then see if it holds up... ^_^ I still remember the Kakyuu incident.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 15:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
The kakyuuu incident was a merge with the starlights right? That presents diffrent complications. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.217.34 (talk • contribs)

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