User talk:DanielT5

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Note: As a university student in student accommodation who is occasionally required to leave the metropolitan area for periods of time, my time on the internet and therefore Wikipedia is inconsistent. This may explain any delays in replying to any questions raised on my talk page or elsewhere. Thanks!

[edit] Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, DanielT5, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! Turlo Lomon 05:29, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Country areas

Hi Daniel! First off, welcome to our project. Secondly, you might want to look at something I was working on before I got distracted by other things - Template:Towns Wheatbelt South WA has a list of towns. The ones in the top row should be OK as I've been through those (though by all means if you have anything good to put in, do so) but the bottom row, I think at most three of them are done to any sort of acceptable standard. While by no means prescriptive, Wandering, Western Australia has a pretty reasonable format to it that you can use as a template if you like.

Also if you want to have a look at Harvey, Western Australia - I worked on it and asked for a review, and some serious issues were raised with it- they can be found in the talk page for the article. The articles for Collie, Katanning, Cranbrook, Tambellup and Kojonup are also below par if I recall. So lots to be getting on with!

If you need my help at any time just give me a shout, or drop a message on the talk page so the other project people can see it. I've found the lot of them to be very helpful - even if you just want one of us to review what you've done on an article. My specialty is towns and geographic areas - other people have other areas that they're no doubt crying out for assistance on as well, so if you have a spot of time don't hesitate to ask :) Good luck with it. Orderinchaos78 12:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Seeing as you seem to be looking at some other areas of the wheatbelt as well, I might try and generate the remaining Wheatbelt LGAs (local government areas), and get the LGA boxes out of the towns so you can work on them unencumbered. There's been a consensus for a few months that shire councils should be called "Shire of..." or "City of..." and be a separate article from their main town. Orderinchaos78 22:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome to WP:WA

Thanks for your messages on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia. You can also, if you wish, add your name to Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia#Participants. User:Hesperian and many others started it off only recently, so we are still developing the project.

Look around and what needs attention in WA articles and start adding to them. There are many helpful wikipedians on the project already, the 'admins' especially. I can only give basic help, but am happy to. I am new enough here to remember the best starting points for editing. I also recommend countering systematic bias, WP:CSB.

Look forward to your edits. Fred 16:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yeah

Offline (ie not on wiki) there is at times much gnashing of teeth and renting of garments (biblical analogies) over some of the more ridiculous edit/debates etc. However as wikipedia is a goldfishbowl (all can be rertrieved) some of our real feelings are suppressed while on wiki. Some issues get to the point of being laughable - as some ediotrs jump in where the wheel has been already invented. Patience and civility is important at all times - and sometimes talking and negotiationcan work even in the most ridiculous situations from my own experience so far. As for others talk pages - or user pages - we try to 'watch over' our friends - specially if they might be offline - so not much goes unseen - although some of us seem to see more than we really want! Hope you enjoy the place - its a very unreal place - make sure you get good doses of reality between times on - otherwise you might end up like me! :) SatuSuro 13:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Towns in WA

You seemed to have started editing for similar reasons to me, but you have worked out a few things faster than I did. I should also mention Wikipedia:WikiProject Perth where I found lots of good editors. Searching recently through Category:Towns in Western Australia I noticed New Norcia, which may be a good example for you to see of a page evolving through different edits. Use the tables and boxes of good Town pages and edit the info to add to a stub. User:Orderinchaos78 is a very good for this subject. There quite a few others in WA who will also add to the article.

Copy and paste this into an article that needs expanding;

{{WesternAustralia-geo-stub}}

which automatically places it in Category: Western Australia geography stubs. The text

"This Western Australia geography article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it"

will appear in the article.

Re: WP:CSB, you make the point well yourself. The 'other country' in this case is WA. The largest state has not had enough attention as you have discovered. One reason could be that Australian history (hard copy - paper), etc., often contains little about WA. But I found the high level of cooperation by WA editors is making up for this.

Some projects form 'task forces' (not the best name) to tackle an issue or subject within their scope. I think you have started one. Let me know when the town page Nungarin is not a 'red link'. Regards Fred 11:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd add to that that if you go to WP:IAP and follow the "Usage" instructions there. Name of town, state (entered as "wa" for WA) and postcode must be entered but all other fields are optional - if you leave them blank they simply won't appear. I'll give you some of my sites as well:

"Urban Centres and Localities" on the ABS site will be your friend for the populations, although many small towns of course won't be listed there.
Ignore the elevation and climate fields unless they can be found here.
Fed electorates are here
State electorates are here - no search unfortunately but for the area you're doing, Avon, Merredin, Wagin, Roe and possibly Murchison-Eyre should include all of them.
Landgate can often give key clues about history and origin of name, although if it's contradicted by a book or other reliable source, believe them over this - they do make mistakes. (This is the same as the DLI or DOLA links you'll see on some - Landgate is their brand new name - I'm sure they'll think up another name change in 2008 to confuse and annoy us all).
Education Department provide info about all public schools, including foundation date (under Administration) and student numbers. Probably best to go to Advanced Search and select the town.
If a bus or train goes there TransWA has timetables on its site.

Hope these links help! Orderinchaos78 12:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

No worries. Re towns - If it's a very small town, the population might not be available. The first place I'd check is the shire's website (although note that shires are infamous for inflating their population statistics!), or alternatively let me know and I'll see if I can dig it out of the complex maze that is the ABS system. Two of the ones you have indicated an interest in doing, Trayning and Nungarin, are not listed. ~~However, if you look at the Main Areas section, and click the little arrow on the shire name, and it will spit out meaningless looking numbers.~~ One of those will have your population. Trayning's easy - the entire population is in 5040602 (I would link to the site that tells me that but it doesn't seem to allow direct links) - but I can't find a reliable population for Nungarin as (1) it doesn't have a Census Collection District, (2) the shire has no website and (3) other Google searches are returning nonsensical results. Unless you find it in a published reliable source it may be that you need to leave this field blank. If you need to find the CCD for any other town let me know. Orderinchaos78 12:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mukinbudin

Distances - where it says "dist1" and "location1" - just copy that line and change the parameters to "dist2" and "location2"
[1] gives you geographic coordinates for any Australian location.
Will look at Shire of Mukinbudin today.

--Orderinchaos78 00:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roads

Yeah that should be fine. If you could do me a favour and keep a list of any ones you work on, I'll look at them later. Also please note we use ", Perth" for anything that isn't a highway. This helps us organise the articles at a later stage. Thanks :) Orderinchaos78 18:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

How this might best work is if we run it as a mini project and divide up the work. If you could do the following I'd be most grateful. I thought using ", Rockingham" for entries entirely within the City of Rockingham, given quite a few roads are, seemed to make sense.

Armadale Road, Perth
Beeliar Drive, Perth
North Lake Road, Perth

Stock Road, Perth
Carrington Street, Perth
South Street, Perth
Ranford Road, Perth
Abernethy Road, Perth (a very odd road indeed)

(list modified) Orderinchaos78 05:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Meanwhile I shall work on northern suburbs ones. If you get these ones done let me know :) Orderinchaos78 04:51, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh and what to do with each one:

Check the main article isn't linked, and disambig it if it is (i.e. look for a "Mandurah Road" article)
Use Template:Infobox Australian Road as a basis.
Quick introduction (Nicholson Road, Perth or Alexander Drive, Perth is what I have in mind - doesn't have to be extensive, we can go through them all later to get them up to scratch if necessary)
Major intersections section, and stub/cat notices.

Cheers Orderinchaos78 04:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah you should always use edit summaries. Otherwise if you make a controversial change and someone sees it, they may think you were vandalising rather than trying to improve the article. Another one to avoid is ticking the minor box or using "minor copyedit" or somesuch as a summary if you're writing new sections or deleting old ones. I am shocking with mine, I tend to just pile together a list like "rm POV section, minor copyedit, cat Rockingham" or something like that. The ones you've been making in the last few edits are good - definitely a big improvement :) Orderinchaos78 12:51, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

More etiquette - I wouldn't make a habit of editing people's comments on talk pages, even if they are erroneous. This one was fine as I knew what was going on, but some people would cut sick at you for that sort of thing. Orderinchaos78 13:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Beeliar and North Lake ones are interesting. Forrest Road in Armadale and Forrest Road in Hamilton Hill used to be the same road, and most of what is now North Lake Road and Armadale Road (which then started in Forrestdale) was also called Forrest Road. Beeliar Drive did not exist until the mid 90s and essentially replaced Yangebup Road, which used to be a fairly major road. The minor streets "Teatree Place" and "Knock Place" hint at Forrest Road's former alignment. I'll see if I can get more info before you start those. Orderinchaos78 04:56, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Update - When the Kwinana Freeway came through in 1993, the present alignment of the road was adopted but the entire thing was still called Forrest Road. Beeliar Drive was built in 1994-95 and Yangebup Road (which previously went round the bottom of the lake to Hammond Road) was cut off. The present naming was adopted in the very late 1990s. Hope this helps! Orderinchaos78 05:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mandurah Road

Hi Daniel, great work with the articles. :) I did the move from Rockingham to Perth, and formatted the references - you did a good job finding those. If you look at the diff where I changed the references you can see how they are done - it's tricky at the start but after you do it a few times it becomes fairly easy. While the fields can be in any order, I would recommend always putting url and title first, and accessdate last, as that way people know where to look if they need to change it (like, say, if the reference goes offline or changes location and needs updating). Orderinchaos78 02:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

One other thing - just a WikiProject-friendly thing :) - when you finish an article you've just created and are about to move on, click on the discussion page and add the text {{WP Australia|Perth=yes}} (or WA=yes if it's not a Perth article). You do not need to sign this contribution. Mark the edit something like "signed to project" or even just copy the text into the edit summary. Don't worry about any you've already created, I've been progressively adding them as I've seen them. The purpose of these is to sign the article into the Wikiproject Australia (the mother of all projects in Australian terms) so that firstly people know where to look to improve articles, and secondly so they can be assessed. Orderinchaos78 02:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey no worries :) I've got a heap of northern ones to do. Basically everything east-west from Vincent Street upwards that has a route number (72 through 84) Also a few important city streets that don't yet have articles, and I want to ask a few Hills-based people what would be appropriate for their sections Orderinchaos78 04:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boredom

You all should post more on my talk page! I'm bored. DanielT5 13:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC) WP Victoria is a dead duck project - and theres heaps or articles in the WP Australia articles without a project category that need to be fed into that one? SatuSuro 13:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] UTC 8.45

Ta for that - Time in Australia has the trains with their own time as welll! Satu Suro 12:33, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tree hugging hippie

Take a look at Category:Economic Left and Social Libertarian Wikipedians... I think you'll find some at -9;-9 Timeshift 14:19, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wheatbelt

I did that template for you, but I'm not sure if you actually realised how big it was going to be. :P

Template:Towns Wheatbelt South WA

What I would suggest doing is going through the blue links and making sure they're adequate against Wandering, Western Australia. That is:

They have sections
They have an infobox
They are properly categorised

If you need any help give me a shout :) Orderinchaos78 16:03, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Cool I see you managed the Trayning one by yourself and managed to fix up mine - good going! If you need any help on Nungarin give me a shout. Orderinchaos78 11:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I'm here

^ :-) Timeshift 09:46, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] You rang?

Orderinchaos78 09:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

If it's really a worry, just put it up as text and link me to it so I can fix it. Infobox is just from here - doesn't matter if you can't find things out and have to leave them blank, as long as the key criticals (kms from Mukinbudin, name of town, state, type, lga etc) are in. What shires were you referring to - I thought we'd gotten those taken care of? Orderinchaos78 09:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

You should talk to them nicely and see if they'll upload some piccies for us under GFDL... Orderinchaos78 11:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What links here for a URL

Hi Hesperian, I was wondering if you know if there's a way to find all pages that link a specific URL? I've found [2] still works but is out of date, and should be [3]. This has got to be the dumbest file organisation system I have ever seen!! I did TEE Computing last year and we covered just this sort of situation. Anyway I'd like to know how to do it so I can do it again if I find any others, thanks :) DanielT5 07:58, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Indeed I do: Special:Linksearch will do the job. Hesperian 10:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Languages

I don't want to give away too many secrets just yet, suffice to say, there is method in the apparent madness. Sometimes they are just spelling mistakes or sloppy, other times extremely cunning word play. Laugh with him or ignore him, the choice is yours.

Anyway, how is it all going. I just read your nationals sub page. Well put, hold your ground when your heart in in the right place. Ask O78 about my political position. I am a bit embarrassed that anyone reads my talk page. I do like things to be out in the open though, so do you it seems. It is a good way to find things out about en. and discover a new topic or page. Glad to see you are still around, drop me a note anytime. Good luck with Uni too. - Fred 01:16, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hey there. Thanks for the message. After receiving a few hate emails from the user, I wanted to give something back to him :P Looking forward to working with you, and welcome to the city! --Ali K 04:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I will muck in, bud. In saying CBH I assume you mean the Hotel. Historic Wheat bins!? I like the way you think Daniel. Let me know what I can do. Hope you are enjoying the big smoke. Feel free to email me - I don't think you told me what you studying - you might want to do that offline. O78 is a great editor, you are lucky to have his help. There are a few tricks to Battye, he seems to know some of the hidden corners. Best regards - Fred 09:36, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Very true, in fact, I'm not sure they ever have been! More on that later. - Fred 09:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Dopey me, the only thing I can say in my defence is that a lot of country people enjoy the place. I understand if you suppose I have a one track mind. What I don't know about the country amazes even me. - Fred Replied Fred

http://henrietta.liswa.wa.gov.au/search/X?SEARCH=cbh&searchscope=1&Da=&Db=&p=&SORT=A - look at this closely - you probably cannot use the photos but there is a thing or two in there... Satu Suro 10:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for H. help Daniel :) I'm putting in the images now - should be ready tonight (finally!) Orderinchaos78 13:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Soldier settlement (Australia)

Hi there DanielT5 - Orderinchaos suggested I drop you a line about soldier settlement schemes which have directly influenced every state of Australia and have a direct link to irrigation commencement etc. These schemes opened up vast quantities of (amongst other places) Western Australia. Until today there was no article on Wiki covering the topic. I have started it and have also suggested it to be a WP:ACOTF article - would welcome your support if you think that such an article is appropriate for a collaboration project? --VS ^{talk...images} 02:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re email

I'll look into the shell article idea on Thursday. Been working on some very interesting stuff from ABS which should give us enough to populate every Wheatbelt town and shire in the ABS's somewhat artificial Campion District. I'm thinking something like the Hamersley "demographics" and "politics" sections, with a few extra bits (I may even be able to add to Hamersley) I'm going to be busy and nigh uncontactable until Thursday evening though. Orderinchaos78 15:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Quick one - haven't forgotten all this stuff. What I'm hoping to do is design a methodology first rather than just jump straight in. With the Wheatbelt it's quite different to a lot of areas as, although historically there've been a range of settlements, most shires essentially have one town, and most useful/verifiable info is actually about the shire. I have to sit down with all the info and hammer it out, but I can see for example the Shire of Mukinbudin article having a lot of useful and interesting geographical, demographic, agricultural, climatic etc information, while the town of Mukinbudin will be more a history of the town, the main buildings, political leanings of its residents and main occupations, with "main" links going back to the shire article. Some areas I think should probably be at the Wheatbelt section (there is *considerable* scope I believe to improve the general Wheatbelt article, and possibly have subarticles like "History of the Wheatbelt region" and so on.) I don't want to start anything radical like this until talking to others though. In the meantime don't let my stuff stop you improving the articles - I'll work around whatever you're doing. By the sounds of it the sort of information you're pulling up is quite independent of my stuff anyway, mine can even be added in at the end if need be. Orderinchaos78 07:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Mukinbudin/Nungarin and Dryland salinity

I know a little bit about dryland salinity. Briefly, inland areas of WA have a lot of salt, but previously most of it had leached down through the soil and into the water table, leaving the soil relatively fresh. In the past these areas had plenty of trees sucking up the soil water and so keeping the water table pretty deep. Then we came along and chopped down most of the trees to plant wheat. Without the trees sucking water out of the water table, the water table has gradually risen, bringing its salt with it. Once the water table gets within one or two metres of the surface, the soil is so saline that only salt tolerant plants survive. In the long term, the only way to fix the problem is to get the water table back down again, and then wait 50(?) years for the salt to wash back down out of the soil - the obvious way to get the water table back down is to plant trees again, but the soil is too saline for trees, so it's a Catch-22. In the short term, all sorts of things are being tried to keep the land from becoming completely useless. Some people are using bores to keep the water table down; some people are digging drains; some people are planting salt-tolerant grazing plants like Atriplex amnicola....

I've been working with biogeographic regions rather than agricultural regions. All these towns are in the Avon Wheatbelt biogeographic region. If you want to write about the geology, native vegetation, flora, fauna and climate of these regions, then the biogeographic region is relevant. But if you're more interested in writing about agriculture and industry, then you'd be better off talking in terms of the Regional Development Commissions Act region (Wheatbelt) or perhaps landcare district.

Hesperian 00:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC) Email the name - and conduct the issue there only... Satu Suro 11:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Church

If you think thats a problem check out the list of churches in Perth. Cannot promise a rapid response. will look though Satu Suro 06:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

You have emailSatu Suro 08:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] OIC's RfA

Of course you can. a short statement is quite acceptable, and information like that helps others to see what he's done. —Moondyne 08:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Congratulations!

Congratulations DanielT5, I have nominated you for adminship! If you're ready to take on this task with Wikipedia, please read the below message.

Daniel, I have removed this as it is a bad faith nomination from someone who does not understand the workings of Wikipedia and seems intent on disruption. I have left a warning on Auroranorth's page. —Moondyne 08:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm serious! Auroranorth (WikiDesk) 08:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

And so am I. —Moondyne 09:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Now we're on the same level, maybe we can agree on one thing: My intention on Wikipedia is completely the opposite of disruptive behaviour (negative contributions). Please understand this. Auroranorth (WikiDesk) 09:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to do this but can you guys discuss this somewhere else :) I'm getting all confused reading "you" meaning someone else on my own talk page DanielT5 09:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The above sentence is the first time anyone used the word "you" to refer to anyone other than you. ;-) Hesperian 00:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I must say you (yes, you) handled that rather well. It could have been very messy indeed if it weren't for your sense of humour about the whole thing. Hesperian 00:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi and thanks! I didn't think it was all that serious, I felt sorry for Aurora if anything else because he would look silly nominating me, although I did appreciate the gesture. DanielT5 12:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Daniel, it was remiss of me to not come back and apologise for mine and others comments on this page. Thanks for taking it all in your stride and please ask if you need a hand with anything in the future. —Moondyne 08:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

No worries and no need to apologise! Thank *you* for relieving my embarassment somewhat and getting me out of an awkward situation. DanielT5 12:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Great. Re the unpleasantness that's going on with Auroranorth. Just in case you're tempted to, my advice is to stand back and leave it to the admins to deal with. Don't let yourself get involved. —Moondyne 13:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

lol... I thought i'd post just to join in on the fun on this one, certainly an amusing read ;-) Timeshift 05:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

MSN owns WP talk page chat :P Timeshift 05:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

cough* Timeshift 11:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Come online sexylegs. Timeshift 11:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] And now for something completely the same

Here is another talk page item that is saying 'you' fared well and showed exemplary patience in the face of it all - and thanks for your email response Satu Suro 08:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear I hope I havent started a trend with this 'you' thing :D I was kind of joking at the time anyway, I just didn't want a war blowing up on my humble little talk page (although you're all welcome to leave notes on it!) And no worries, I did appreciate that. DanielT5 12:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comprehensible

Re WT:AUSPOL - you might need to clarify what you meant, as even I'm not sure :) Orderinchaos78 09:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NSW general election page

Thanks for your kind words. I still think I'll give these pages a miss.

I don't believe election pages should just be a crue "cut and paste" of sensationalist newspaper mentions, where editors of different political persuasions compete to cram in propaganda and then "Let the reader decide".

If this is the philosophy, we may as well delete election articles altogether and replace them with links to political party homepages. Sadly, I'm in a minority re the NSW election page, so I'll leave it to my Liberal friends to post whatever they like without my attempts at balance. The average reader will be able to judge for themselves the value of the article, and in disputes over POV it is often best to walk away. It's only an online encyclopedia after all.

I appreciate your point about the WA Nationals - it must be a challenge trying to highlight your independent identity given the current and past attention to the larger Qld/NSW parties. The NSW Nationals have a similar issue - a party with two distinct wings (coastal pro-development, based on medium size regional towns, vs inland, pro-agriculture, based on farmers). The coastal Nats have the majority and the leadership, and public impressions are coloured by their attitudes - the inland Nats (arguably the traditonal party base) have some very different views and policies but struggle to get airtime or recogntion.

Anyway, thanks just some idle thoughts :) Jeendan 02:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WA Elections articles

Thanks for your nice comments. I didn't do anything fancy as I didn't know much about WA politics. I just used the NSW elections as a template and filled in the gaps. It's nice to get some positive feedback. Cheers. Assize 06:34, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Sports Trainer

Hi, I am contacting you regarding a comment that you left on User:Ali K talk page regarding a Sports Trainer article. This was the comment:

I would suggest ignoring this person as firstly they were blocked for "hoaxing" and secondly they don't own the article, I dont think one can be an "expert" in a generic article anyway (wouldnt every sports trainer in the country have a similar claim?) Your edits look good to me :) DanielT5 23:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Well I was blocked and have recently been unblocked, anyway the reason for me contacting you now is to say that i did not make claims about owning the article and i am an expert in that area, not only am i a Sports Trainer but i am also president of the sports trainer's association and i have over twenty years experience, which i would think makes me an expert in that area, don't you? (Bradleigh 09:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		For good humour and keeping your cool during the RfA fiasco, and for your excellent contributions to Australian politics articles and discussions. We salute you. —Moondyne 01:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] msn

wtf? dude... it's nothing like that, you know how i feel about you. Timeshift 13:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] core policies

Verifiability not truth is a core policy of Wikipedia and it is a sign of bad faith to use a vote on ATT as a way of attacking another policy. Slrubenstein | Talk 10:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] images

I just saw this related to an item on my watchlist, is this a correct action? while its not a big deal for me personally I think an election article without pics of the leaders is a bit silly... DanielT5 22:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is legitimate.

Once upon a time, Wikipedia didn't have a policy on use of copyrighted material, so anything that could legally be used under fair use provisions was permitted to be used. Gradually, Wikipedia has tightened its fair use policy, to the point that some material is no longer accepted even though it is not actually illegal.

Copyrighted images of living people is a prime example; they are no longer accepted, virtually without exception. I guess the Foundation sees obtaining suitably licensed photographs of living people to be part of the challenge of writing an encyclopedia - a challenge that will not be taken up if we continue to use non-free images under claims of fair use. I can see their point: trying to obtain a photo of Gallop would be difficult but not impossible, and no doubt some people would consider it fun - step one, contact his media liaison agent and ask for a suitably licensed image; if that doesn't work: step two, find out his schedule and try to snap him giving a talk or attending a meeting; if that doesn't work, step three, find out where he lives, hide in his garden, snap him putting the garbage out in his pyjamas ;-)

This fair-use-images-of-living-people issue was a grey area for a while, and there was a lot of argument about it. But last month the Wikimedia Foundation issued a licensing policy resolution defining Wikipedia as a Free Cultural Work, and explicitly declaring that Wikipedia "may not allow material where we can reasonably expect someone to upload a freely licensed file for the same purpose, such as is the case for almost all portraits of living notable individuals." What the Wikimedia Foundation says goes, so there's no point arguing, even if certain specific situations, like the above, seem a bit silly.

Hesperian 00:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shame

I just read your hurtful comments about my editing at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Western Australian general election campaign, 2005. For someone who is so hung up on defining precisely your political orientation for the benefit of other users, you seem to have no respect for the nuances of the views of others. That you would label me a Liberal and pretend that my edits had driven Jeendan away shows that you have little to contribute to this project besides ignorance and bile. And to think I was taking your earlier apology at face value. For shame. Joestella 13:43, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

(Posted on both talk pages)

I really hate to intervene here, but I can see where this is going and I don't want it to go there. I admit that some of my own posts and edit summaries on topics related to these pages have been ill-considered and written with a slightly hot head. Joestella has admitted that waiting 24 hours was no excuse for continuing a revert war. DanielT5 has admitted he jumped before looking in his first reply-to-a-reply on Joestella's talk page. Everyone seems to acknowledge we need a standard, although disagreement exists as to which standard. Both of you were more measured on consideration, and I think we need to build on that. Anything that escalates this - from any of us - is a bad thing. I hope Joestella will reconsider his comments above and I likewise hope DanielT5 would be willing to tone down his comments at the AFD as a mutual sign of good faith from which we can proceed. This dispute is not getting WP:AUSPOL anywhere, and I think fundamentally we are actually all trying to achieve the same thing in our own little areas. I feel what is needed is just a bit more consideration and a bit less enforcement on all sides. Orderinchaos 14:46, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Minor point

Re your edit summary on WAGE 2005 - might wish to clarify. Your comment and Joe's were in fact exactly the same - I think you meant to write "consensus". Probably a good reminder for us all not to write things in the heat of the moment. Orderinchaos 14:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nats

Hi DanielT5, I have added the 'sources' notice to the ALP, LPA and NPA articles to draw further attention to the lack of referencing and therefore (as you say) POV that naturally slips in the vacuum. I have never read a book on the Nats so do not have a recommendation, however I have no doubt at all there is plenty of info out there from publications of all sorts as I said last night at WikiProject Australian politics, for example today's Courier Mail details internal party matters on the front page! This stuff really isn't that difficult to source, the problem is people want to push their agenda's on these pages and not put the time in to back it up. Personally I think we should start afresh by wiping all unsourced materials on these pages and then go from there, I might be in the minority on that one :) But surely everyone can agree that it's not a very healthy encyclopaedic situation where the minor parties have better articles than the parties which actually run the country... That's my rant for the day. Wiki Townsvillia n 07:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Also regarding there being better info on States; that doesn't surprise me, my observation is that most of the power/politics in all the major parties is at the State level and they all retain quite a bit of autonomy, particularly the Nats. I would suggest that if is hard to find info about the Nats at the Federal level and it is relatively easy to find it on the State level than there should be detailed articles on each of the State Parties and the National Party of Australia page should have a description of the umbrella federal organisation, some information about the federal parliamentary history and platform and the rest of the article be a summery of each of the State sub-pages. Your thoughts? Wiki Townsvillia n 08:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Good to hear, and as a Party member you have a real advantage in getting official info which can be sourced, I presume the WA Nats would have a Members Guide, or Members Info Book available on request, just call Party Office or one of the MPs office's and they should be able to post that documentation to you. Information from those types of documents, while obviously bias towards the good points of the party, would be a good starting point on writing about official policy/platform and recent news in a well referenced way, and the next step is one of the following:

talk to someone at party office and ask them if they can recommend any good articles/books about the party which is from a reliable and independent political analyst.
go to your local/uni library and ask for help in sourcing info from their archives.
even a Google search should produce a huge amount of info from various news and political science websites.

Good luck, Wiki Townsvillia n 09:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Haha, I love the first point of your /Nationals page! Unfortunately Queensland politics, particularly from that era, can give people a bad name by association :) (just like your local bloke Burke) ;) Wiki Townsvillia n 09:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

I'm keeping an eye on the page. I'm not going to do anything administratively at the moment (i.e. block, etc.) I'd rather wait and see where it goes from here. Blocks are preventative and as long as the page isn't being wholesale reverted I think this solves this immediate situation. I've also left an opinion on the talkpage that a former FA is not in "lockdown", but that wholesale revamps are not a good idea; the article was featured for a reason. I'm continuing to monitor the situation.--Isotope23 17:01, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] There's a username i've not seen in a while

Hey, welcome back. OIC said you were coming back after a self-imposed WP exile. so it's great to have someone else around to tackle the nonsense. Thewinchester ^(talk) 05:11, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Good to see you back. With regard to the WJB/Thewinchester matter, I'd suggest cooling it now that your point has been addressed on the AN/I. It's not worth losing a contributor like yourself over something so trivial, if the business referred to arises again in your case, I have no doubt a fair outcome will now ensue - both situations were at opposite ends of a spectrum when the correct actions should be somewhere in the middle. Orderinchaos 22:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Advice on creating inline references?

Thanks for the rating RE Australian bass article.

Are you able to advise how to create inline citations?

I have worked out how to create basic inline referencing where you mention each reference only once.

However, I do not how to create inline citations where each reference is mentioned several times. If you could advise me on this, that would be great.

(I tried following the instructions off the citing page for multiple references and they did not work.)

Thanks, Codman 03:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perth Meetup Notification

	Perth Meetup Next: TBA Last: 13/02/2008 This box: view • talk • edit

You are invited to a meetup of Western Australian Wikipedians on the 19th August 2007 in the tearooms of Tranby House. Please sign on the Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/3 if you are able to attend. you recieved this message as your account has been active during May, June 2007 and your user page is listed in the Category:Wikipedians in Western Australia Gnan garra 03:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Back

I'm finally back in action. Yay! DanielT5 04:10, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back Twenty Years 14:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Elonka 2

Thank you for taking the time to participate at the discussion in my Request for Adminship. Unfortunately the nomination did not succeed, but please rest assured that I am still in full support of the Wikipedia project. I listened carefully to all concerns, and will do my best to incorporate all of the constructive advice that I received, into my future actions on Wikipedia. If you can think of any other ways that I can further improve, please let me know. Best wishes, El on ka 04:59, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reminder

Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/3 is next sunday 19th August, if you haven't already please sign on the meetup page if your coming, if your still unsure indicate anyway so I can confirm numbers with the venue thankyou Gnan garra 00:45, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Draft template

Hi, another user placed a speedy deletion tag on the draft template in your userspace User:DanielT5/Town, presumably because it was showing up in the category Category:Towns in Western Australia. I've tried to hide it from the category by commenting out the word town in the infobox and removing the brackets from the Category name. --Canley (talk) 06:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)