Template talk:Danish overseas empire
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Shouldn't Iceland have some place in this template? --Bjarki 00:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- Rather tricky: it was Norwegian, only came under the Danish crown with Norway, remaining Danish when that monarchy went to Sweden in 1814 as a personal union, not a colonial possession. Should we perhaps include both Norway and Iceland, say as 'other Nordic countries under the Danish crown'? Fastifex 11:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Icelandic constitutional history of the 19th century is quite eventful, I think it is true that in the beginning of the century, the Icelanders themselves considered Iceland to be in a personal union with Denmark, a part of the Danish realm but not an integral part of the state of Denmark. When Denmark became a constitutional monarchy in 1849, powers previously belonging to the king were delegated to the parliament. Icelanders considered this a loss of sovereignty for them as a foreign parliament where they were not represented was now the highest authority on Icelandic matters. The Danes made several proposals in the next decades that would have made Iceland an integral part of Denmark with a few representatives in the Danish parliament. The new constution for Iceland in 1874 recognized Iceland as a separate entity with its own legislative powers, in 1904 the executive was moved to Iceland as well. The country became the fully sovereign 'Kingdom of Iceland' in 1918 and an independent republic in 1944. It is indeed tricky to classify Iceland prior to 1874 or 1904, Danish politicians probably considered it a dependecy while the Icelanders would have considered it a personal union. In any case, the Danes actively excersised real authority over Icelandic matters until 1904 (and probably some authority until 1918). --Bjarki 14:32, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- In Danish legal tradition, Greenland and the East and West Indies were considered to be colonies. The Faroes and Iceland, on the other hand, were considered to be bilande (horrible word) which losely translates to dependencies. I am however, a bit surprised at the description above, since I've always heard that Iceland held two seats in the Danish Parliament under the constitution of 1849. I know it is not much, but is this information incorrect? Valentinian (talk) 16:02, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- To the best of my knowledge, Iceland was offered representation of six members in the Danish parliament in 1851 in exchange for becoming an integral part of the Danish state and sharing its laws. But all of the directly elected members of the recently reestablished Althing rejected the proposal while all of the members selected by the king abstained. The Althing was only an advisory body at the time but still it would have been hard to implement these changes without its support, the nation would hardly be called upon to vote on these six seats they didn't want them in the first place. I haven't yet found any sources suggesting that Iceland ever elected representatives in the Danish parliament but because of the above I have always assumed that they didn't. Are you sure that the Faroes had such an representation from 1849? --Bjarki 20:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- I have no information regarding the pre-1848 arrangement, I just remembered something about Grundtvig being interested in Icelandic representation. I've found a copy of August Baggesen's Den danske Stat (1862), 2nd edition, Copenhagen:C.A. Reitzel which has a little information. P. 301: "At the .... union of these two kingdoms (1380) [Denmark and Norway], the Faroes came under the Danish crown and now constitute a county which in spiritual and temporal matters belongs to the Diocese of Copenhagen". Apparently the Faroes was a county already then (I thought it was a later invention). P. 180-81 describing the houses of Parliaments (Rigsdagen) states "101 members are elected [to the Folketing] (1 for the Faroes), i.e. around 1 member for each 16,000 inhabitants´, the members are elected for three year terms. The election to the Landsting happens thus that the eligible voters elect an electoral college which elects the members, the number is 52 (1 for the Faroes). [...at de Valgberettigede vælge Valgmænd og at disse vælge Medlemmerne, hvis Antal er 52 (1 for Færøerne).] Iceland is not mentioned in this context so it seems like the Faroes but not Iceland were represented in the Danish Parliament. Valentinian (talk) 22:22, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- To the best of my knowledge, Iceland was offered representation of six members in the Danish parliament in 1851 in exchange for becoming an integral part of the Danish state and sharing its laws. But all of the directly elected members of the recently reestablished Althing rejected the proposal while all of the members selected by the king abstained. The Althing was only an advisory body at the time but still it would have been hard to implement these changes without its support, the nation would hardly be called upon to vote on these six seats they didn't want them in the first place. I haven't yet found any sources suggesting that Iceland ever elected representatives in the Danish parliament but because of the above I have always assumed that they didn't. Are you sure that the Faroes had such an representation from 1849? --Bjarki 20:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- In Danish legal tradition, Greenland and the East and West Indies were considered to be colonies. The Faroes and Iceland, on the other hand, were considered to be bilande (horrible word) which losely translates to dependencies. I am however, a bit surprised at the description above, since I've always heard that Iceland held two seats in the Danish Parliament under the constitution of 1849. I know it is not much, but is this information incorrect? Valentinian (talk) 16:02, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
- Icelandic constitutional history of the 19th century is quite eventful, I think it is true that in the beginning of the century, the Icelanders themselves considered Iceland to be in a personal union with Denmark, a part of the Danish realm but not an integral part of the state of Denmark. When Denmark became a constitutional monarchy in 1849, powers previously belonging to the king were delegated to the parliament. Icelanders considered this a loss of sovereignty for them as a foreign parliament where they were not represented was now the highest authority on Icelandic matters. The Danes made several proposals in the next decades that would have made Iceland an integral part of Denmark with a few representatives in the Danish parliament. The new constution for Iceland in 1874 recognized Iceland as a separate entity with its own legislative powers, in 1904 the executive was moved to Iceland as well. The country became the fully sovereign 'Kingdom of Iceland' in 1918 and an independent republic in 1944. It is indeed tricky to classify Iceland prior to 1874 or 1904, Danish politicians probably considered it a dependecy while the Icelanders would have considered it a personal union. In any case, the Danes actively excersised real authority over Icelandic matters until 1904 (and probably some authority until 1918). --Bjarki 14:32, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
