Talk:Daniel Chodowiecki

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	This page is affected by the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. The following rules apply in the case of disputes:
For Gdańsk, use the name Danzig between 1308 and 1945 For Gdańsk, use the name Gdańsk before 1308 and after 1945 In biographies of clearly German persons, the name should be used in the form Danzig (Gdańsk) and later Danzig exclusively In biographies of clearly Polish persons, the name should be used in the form Gdańsk (Danzig) and later Gdańsk exclusively. For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig). An English language reference that primarily uses this name should be provided on the talk page if a dispute arises. Reverts to conform with community consensus are excluded from the 3RR rule. Only the place names can be reverted exempt from the 3RR rule according to the outcome of this vote, additional changes fall again under the 3RR rule. Please use descriptive edit summaries. Persistent reverts against community consensus despite multiple warnings may be dealt with according to the rules in Wikipedia:Dealing with vandalism. In case of doubt, assume good faith and do not bite newcomers. The detailed vote results and the vote itself can be found on Talk:Gdansk/Vote. This vote has ended; please do not vote anymore. Comments and discussions can be added to Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion anytime. This template {{Template:Gdansk-Vote-Notice}} can be added on the talk page of affected articles if necessary.

Chodowecki is of Polish Descent(Orphan) and he was born in Gdansk, Poland. Gdansk was not renamed to Danzig till after the partions see link from

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=84459&tocid=0&query=polish&ct=eb

The article states that he was born in Danzig. InanimateCarbonRod 01:53, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Which is currently under of name of Gdansk. However, in Wikipedia if a person was born when a city name was different then what it currently is, the old name appearently is given peference. Vancouverguy 01:54, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

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Contents 1 Gdansk 1726 2 Danzig 3 Danzig 1726 4 Ongoing destructive behavior

[edit] Gdansk 1726

In 1726 Gdansk was a Polish City Chodowiecki was born in Gdansk it wasnt renamed to danzig till after the First Partiton:

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[edit] Danzig

== City State == church records (legal records of citizens born in Danzig): http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=topicdetails&subject=352724&subject_disp=Germany%2C+Preu%C3%9Fen%2C+Westpreu%C3%9Fen%2C+Danzig+%2D+Church+records&columns=*,0,0

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[edit] Danzig 1726

The Hanseatic City of Danzig or in Latin: Civitas Gedanensis and surrounding territory were an independend city state with ships flying the independend Danzig flag. Besides that, in 1726 Poland was governed by Friedrich August the Strong, Sacrum Imperium or Holy Roman Empire Elector of Saxony-Poland (Kurfuerst von Sachsen and King of Poland). Danzig did have its first Polish inhabitants after 1920 due to the Treaty of Versailles and the surrounding newly created so-called 'Polish Corridor'. The official name of the city remained Danzig until in early 1945 it became a Polish administered city under Soviet Union military occupation and was then renamed Gdansk.

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http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Gdansk

I noticed that some of the text from that link was copied into the Gdansk page, and removed it. Also, I belive Gdansk was part of Prussia at the time of Chodowiecki's life. Vancouverguy 02:00, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Are you saying Wikipedia copied text from Nationmaster? Take a look at the bottom of that page! --Wik 02:30, Oct 4, 2003 (UTC)

See this page on history of the cities control:

http://www.uwm.edu/~lanehall/enter/projects/gdansk/tally.html

Kommiec 02:03, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

1726, when Chodowiecki was born is not on that list. Vancouverguy 02:05, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

See German Source on Chodowiecki Notice Gdansk: http://www.ostsee-urlaub-polen.de/gdansk/geschichte-chodowiecki.htm

See this report from Gutenbers Encyclopedia: http://www.pgs.pl/projekt/2/projekt2_dchodowiecki.html

Kommiec 02:09, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I can't read Polish or German.Vancouverguy 02:10, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

PLEASE TRY TO KEEP CALM AND NOT BANK INTO AN edit war.Rickyrab 02:12, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

If you read the second link you can see it is in english :) Kommiec 02:12, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

That has nothing to do with the history of Gdansk, it doesn't mention who controlled the city.Vancouverguy 02:14, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

In 1726 the city was a part of poland see the tally :) It says he was born in gdansk,Poland now the next time before you change it show me a link to why it should be keot as danzig.

According to this: http://www.culture.pl/en/culture/artykuly/wy_wy_chodowiecki_rysunek_pgs

Daniel Nikolaus Chodowiecki (1726-1801), the son of a French Huguenot and a Polish nobleman, was an illustrator, graphic artist, and painter. He was born in Gdansk and in 1743 relocated to Berlin. He studied painting, drawing, and the graphic arts with Bernhard Rode, director of the Academy of Fine Arts in Berlin

The Only reason he is called a German Is because he MOVED TO BERLIN!!!

Kommiec 02:18, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The Wiki article says he is Polish-German.Vancouverguy 02:18, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

If it helps this article has some history. From reading that, I would think the city was under Russian control in 1726...so you're all wrong :) Adam Bishop 02:25, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

That's a big help. Vancouverguy 02:26, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

So the "Polish guy" is really a Russian? Rickyrab 02:27, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Sure...what's the Russian name for Gdansk? :) Actually, it seems that Gdansk was under Polish influence at the time (while Poland was under Russian influence), but it was culturally German, and to confuse things even more it was a free state (notice how it didn't want to be part of Poland or Prussia). Adam Bishop 02:29, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Well he was Polish/French see the my above quote. Russian name is Gdansk :) The page should go back to my previous edit.

Kommiec 02:33, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Some of our worst edit wars started with contributors claiming various historical characters as "Polish" vs. "German" vs. "Prussian", etc. I hope this doesn't turn into one of those. May I suggest saying things like considered Polish or German of Prussian ancestry or Pole who spoke French, lived in Russia and had purple fur like Barney? ;-) --Uncle Ed 02:37, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

See my previous edit all i did was change the name from Danzig to Gdansk,Poland (German: Danzig) I see it more accuratley then (Now Gdansk,Poland) Since Now means something changed

Kommiec 02:41, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The city was part of Poland in 1726, but it was nevertheless called Danzig as the population was mainly German. Take a look at this list of mayors and you'll see only German names throughout that period. --Wik 02:49, Oct 4, 2003 (UTC)

Since we all agree the city was a part of Poland I don't see any reason for vancouverguy to reedit my edit. I said he was born in Gdansk,Poland (German:Danzig). Do you see anything wrong with that and it also depends which sources use Danzig ? See different editions of the Britannica.

Kommiec 03:03, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

In Polish encyclopediae www.wiem.pl he is described as German painter of Polish ancestry. He also (in polish: http://www.zwoje.com/zwoje28/text14p.htm) once wrote to hi sPolish friend, that he is proud to be true Pole. Interested in history of Poland and painted many paintings from that history. However he used only German, lived in Germany (in french huguenot colony), married French, his mother was French (father was Polish). Calling him French-German-Polish is IMHO justified. [[user::szopen]]

I wonder whether you should add a note that his paintings also included life of Polish gentry and Polish istory. szopen

Can someone either replace the first comma with the article with the word was or remove the word who - as it is now it doesn't flow gramatically. Thanks! -- Pakaran 22:23, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Done. -- Cyan 00:32, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Why stress that Gdansk is NOW in Poland? Danzig was in Poland also throughout life od Chodowiecki. I will again fix it. Simply removing "now in Poland" will be enough. szopen

BTW someone said that in 1726 Danzig/Gdansk was free state. It was NOT. [[Szopen]]

Let us cite CHodowiecki himself:

http://www.malarze.com/plartysta.php?id=55&biografia=f&l=pl

W liście do Józefa Łęskiego profesora astronomii na UJ pisał "ja sobie za zaszczyt czynię - być prawdziwym Polakiem, chociażem w Niemczech osiadł". Często też powtarzał, że "jest potomkiem wielkiego narodu, który wkrótce przestanie istnieć". Mimo tych klarownych deklaracji samego artysty, przez zgoła dwie setki lat Niemcy próbowali za wszelką cenę zatrzeć wszelki ślad po polskości Chodowieckiego, aby zawłaszczyć do sztuce niemieckiej, rewizja tych poglądów nastąpiła dopiero po drugiej wojnie światowej.

In the letter to Jozef Lecki, profesor of astronomy of Jagiellonian University, he wrote "So i consider this a honour - to be a true Pole, though I am living now in Germany". He often also repeated that he is "the descendant of the great nation, which soon will cease to exist". Despite this clear declarations of the artist himself, for almost 200 year Germans tried at any cost to remove any sign of Chodowiecki Polishness, so to possess him for German art. Revision of this thoughts started only after Second World War (szopen: as we may see from the discussion above and from revert wars, it has not)Szopen 09:10, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

http://malarze.com/artysta.php?id=55&biografia=f&l=en&PHPSESSID=c73fae9a41721bc084b9004f2394e429

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[edit] Ongoing destructive behavior

by Tirid Tirid, [1]

Well, what about consistenly removing "Polish" painter, while he himself many times declared himself to be Polish? That's destructive too, don't you think?Szopen 10:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC)