Talk:Damascus

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Contents

[edit] Format

This may just be on my screen, but the first introductory paragraph at the top clips the information box on the right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.145.210.52 (talk) 19:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naming

The term (Bilaad Al-Sham)can mean "land of Shem (son of Noah)". According to Alkamoos Almuheet (meaning literally: The Encyclopedic Dictionary) by Alfirooz Abaady, in the Section of letter (M: mem), the Chapter of letter (SH: sheen)

Al-Sh'am: land to the left[north] of Qibla [Makah in Saudia arabia], and it was named so either because some Canaanites (tsha'moo) went left [meaning north] towords it, or after Sam, the son of Noah since he is called Sham with (SH) instead of (S) in Syric language. ... and Tsha'ama: means he is from there [Damascus, Sham], or it means going North. ... And Sha'oom: is the the opposite of right.

[edit] uncategorized talk

Why does this page not have a consistent dateing for the creation of damascus? It shifts a few thousand years here and there throughout the article!

Many possibilities for improvement are at "What links here."

I find it a bit odd that we have a string of Hebrew for the name of this city at the top of the article. It is mentioned in the Bible, so it should have a single mention in the Tiberian Hebrew in the history section. It is far more important to note that this city is locally known as Ash-Sham. Gareth Hughes 23:11, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It is, perhaps, even more important to note the population of the city...the article, that is, is rather dreadful. john k 07:35, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I've done a bit of a rewrite of the lead section. Are there any good city articles that would serve as a template for rewriting this one? I used to live in ash-Sham, are there any other Wikipedians who know the city well? Gareth Hughes 16:11, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I used to live just 20 minutes northwest of Damascus in a suburb called Mashroo3 Dummar. This article needs to be improved greatly, when I get the time I might do it.Yuber 23:48, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

There is so much that could be written about Damascus, but coming upon this slim article just makes me wonder where to begin. Perhaps we could start a list here, on the talk page, of things that should be included in the article, and then start editing them in. --Gareth Hughes 10:57, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Should we go by the articles on Cairo and Jerusalem as templates for what to include? Or perhaps we should use a European city? Yuber 03:24, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Yuber, I like what you've done with the article. I would like to see a more extensive history section for the city (we could work off the Syria article). I would also like something about the atmosphere of Damascus, particularly focusing on the Old City and the surrounding city centre, but also perhaps something about the suburbs. For the Old City, I think it would be good to have something about the walls, gates and the citadel; the Umayyad Mosque, of course; Souq al-Hamadiyya; the Street Called Straight (is that the same as Madhat Basha?); Ananias' House; the Greek and Syriac patriarchates; Bab Touma; Saladin's Tomb; Azem Palace; St Paul's Chapel Bab Kisan; various madrassas, hammams, khans and mosques. For the New City: the Barada river, the University of Damscus campus, al-Marja, the Hejaz railway station, the Takiyya as-Sulaymaniyya Mosque and souq; the National Museum. I shall have a look at some other city articles as well (Cairo and Jerusalem are good examples). --Gareth Hughes 10:30, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Good ideas, the history section still needs to be polished up (and possibly reorganized). I added a section on historical sites that can hopefully be expanded, and I put a few of the sites of the Old city there.Yuber 05:09, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Gentlemen, if I may be of any assistance contact me at tarekal_hariri@yahoo.co.uk as I go to Damascus every year for three months. --T.W.a.H.a.a.R.

Hey, if you want, you can start editing by yourself. Just click the edit button at the top of the screen and add whatever you think might be applicable. If you have pictures of Damascus that you would be willing to contribute just upload them (upload button at left of screen).Yuber(talk) 04:04, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] geography section expanded

I've done some work on the geography section, hope to get more info into other bits as well soon.

By the way, the article cites an Aramaic name for Damascus but it's written in Hebrew letters. Is there a reason it's not in Syriac letters? Or am I just showing my ignorance?Palmiro 11:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Ghouta Cheease? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.207.0.5 (talk) 20:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Chino?--86.29.249.169 (talk) 02:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] history section expanded

I've put some more info into this, but it still requires some work (both editing the new material and filling in some gaps: there's nothing yet on the Ottoman period apart from the very beginning, the Muhammad Ali interlude and the very end, and nothing on the development of the modern city.Palmiro 18:30, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

"City planners preferred to preserve the Ghouta as far as possible", This was not implemented, although they should have. Mezze was part of ghouta. Kafarsousseh ( built with official approval in ghoutal, South West of the old city)shadyzay Mar 29 2007, 14:02 ( +2GMT )

[edit] Damascus' description

Damascus being described as the most beautiful city in the world totally fails to achieve an objective point of view. This should definitely be cut off for the sake of objectiveness.

I just took that statement out, it's highly POV. Even though many of us think Damascus is a beautiful city, we must remain NPOV. Regards, --Gramaic | Talk 20:45, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Minor Quibble

The clause ... and is the oldest inhabited city in the world irritates me a little as this is hardly undisputed fact - it may be a contender of oldest continually inhabited settlement, although personally I feel that its claim to this title is rather weak. As it is at the beginning of the article, it made a huge impression on the extent to which I trusted the rest of the article. --Si42 16:38 19th October 2005 (UTC)

Now considerably restricted! Thanks for pointing this out. Palmiro | Talk 17:09, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't know how a city can "claim" to be the oldest. I have changed the wording to "it is thought to be", although those are somewhat of weasel words. Yuber(talk) 01:23, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Damascus is the oldest inhabited city in the world. Whenever I see documentaries about Damascus on TV, they always state that it's the oldest. --Gramaic | Talk 04:04, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Can we nail it down to a source? I've seen the same claim made about Aleppo myself, which makes me additionally dubious. Is there some book out there about The World's Oldest Cities? And why do I keep automatically getting logged out? - Palmiro
Whether or not Damascus is the oldest continually inhabited city in the world, it certainly does claim to be the old. It is also "frequently said to be" the oldest - this latter is definitely true. What are the other contenders? Jericho wasn't continually inhabited (and I'm not sure if modern Jericho is even on the same site as ancient Jericho). Jerusalem is old, but I've never heard it described as older than Damascus. Nablus is probably pretty old, but again, I've not heard it described as older than Damascus. Aleppo would seem a plausible contender, and maybe Hama as well. I don't think any of the ancient Mesopotamian cities have survived, nor any of the ancient Egyptian cities (Aswan, though, maybe? It was Syene to the Egyptians, but I'm not sure how old it was). None of the Indus Valley cities survived, and Shang China only emerged rather after the date we're talking about. So it's almost certainly a city in the Levant somewhere. What are the other contenders? john k 16:20, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
Other possibilities would be the Phoenician cities, especially Byblos, which is, I believe, as Jubayl, still inhabited, although quite small, but which dates back to the 3rd millennium BC. If not those, Sidon and Tyre are quite old as well. Perhaps we could write an article on this subject, listing (for instance), all currently inhabited cities which date back before Alexander the Great or so (the Hellenistic and Roman periods give so many cities that it would be overwhelming). john k 16:28, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
We'd have to define what it means to be "continually-inhabited". If a city is destroyed then resettled centuries later it is obviously not continually-inhabited, but what if a city has a large population then for centuries is a mere hamlet? Damascus has been documented as an important city in every era, the earliest being Ebla's identification of it, so I definitely think it is the oldest continually-inhabited city. Yuber(talk) 01:49, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, according to the retired director of antiquities of Aleppo, Dr. Mahmoud al-Haritani (I think) Aleppo is definitely, undoubtedly, incontestably the oldest continuously-inhabited city in the world! Palmiro | Talk 20:25, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

LOL.Yuber(talk) 21:08, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Wow, what a surprising thing for a Syrian director of antiquities to say! ;-) - Also, I was wondering if Hebron would be a contender for the title - some of you probably know more than me about this... --Si42 23:25, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Damaski

[1] There's the source. Yuber(talk) 17:46, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

A source from Damascus-Online.com? Surely it's hardly accepted by all? Excuse me if I seem a little agressive on this topic, I am just aware that pages describing regions and cities such as Ash-Shams may be particularly subject to a few nationalist/localist tendencies.Si42 00:42, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
It's in "Syria in View" by Michael Jenner as well if you want to pick that up. Yuber(talk) 19:59, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Fair enough, I have never said that it definitely isn't - and am happy to contend that it may well be the oldest continually-inhabited city in the world, and is very often (at least in the Western and Arab spheres) spoken of in those terms. The problem is, that coming out and saying it presents what is a constantly ongoing debate as established fact - the way the opening paragraph is worded at the moment seems fine to me, especially since I found Oldest cities little gem, which I have nominated for deletion for unverifyability, although now I am trying to think of ways we could change it to make it more appropriate - not least since a similar page was requested here some time ago.--Si42 14:46, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
OK, I am going to let this go now, here is an acceptable source: [2]--Si42 00:00, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Al-Hama

Al-Hama is a new article describing a suburb of Damascus. Can anyone verify the details in the article or expand it, particularly so that it doesn't focus on Israel? Melchoir 02:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Capital, but not Governorate!

This article is for the capital of the governorate of Damascus. An article should be started for the governorate, and the template should be modified. I will make it but I'm very busy this week, if any other would fix that, it would be appreciated. --Anas Salloum 12:50, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The govenorate is the city! If a former suburb becomes a part of the governorate it has to be already a part of the city, and there's actually nothing in the governorate of Damascus except for the city itself. So, I don't see why we should start something other than a simple redirect page. Orionist 14:04, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
No my friend, you are wrong. The Damascus Governorate has many manatiq's and cities, and the capital of this governorate is Damascus, the city. What about Bloudan, Zabadani, Saidnaya? And if you check for other governorates, they have separate articles. Perhaps the Governorates of Syria article can clarify things for you. ↔ ANAS - Talk 18:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
You're talking about the governorate of Rif Dimashq. The towns you mentioned are all in Rif Dimashq. Damascus by itself is a separate governorate, but at the same time it is the capital of Rif Dimashq. You're mixing محافظة مدينة دمشق with محافطة ريف دمشق. This may be confusing, and it is. The capital is cluttered with government buildings, because every sevice has to have three separate buildings, one for the ministry, another for Damascus, and another for Rif Dimashq!.....Anyway, something should be written about this, I'll think of something tomorrow. This may be a chance to expand the Rif Dimashq article... what do you think? Orionist 06:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
I must have had a misunderstanding, thanks for clarifying things up Orionist. I agree with the edits you did, I think it's fine the way it is now. Concerning the Rif Dimashq article, I will be glad to work on its expansion with you. We can collect some sources and references and try to revamp the article. We can discuss this if you want, leave me a message if you're interested. Thanks. ↔ ANAS - Talk 12:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sister Cities?

What is it meant by "Sister Cities"? Why Yerevan is a sister of Damascus? And why should it have a section in this article without explaining all that? Orionist 14:14, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Obviously it's unrelated to Damascus at all, I removed it. If it is somehow related to Damascus and worth being mentioned, it should be justified. ↔ ANAS - Talk 18:23, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted external links

External link or links have recently been deleted by User:Calton as "horrible Tripod pages which add little information, are full of ads, and fail WP:EL standards." No better external links were substituted. Readers may like to judge these deleted links for themselves, by opening Page history. --Wetman 14:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] infobox

There is currently a world heritage site infobox, but I think this article needs a city infobox, I will add that one above the current one. Asabbagh 04:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Update: Since the city is also a governorate, this means the article can have 3 infoboxes. Right now there are 2 (WHS and governorate) and I think it already looks messy. Any ideas? Asabbagh 07:38, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Via recta: Cardo or decumanus?

The via recta or "straight road" (known from the biblical book of Acts 9,11) is called the "cardo" in this article. Should it not be the decumanus? In the Roman City layout the Cardo usually runs north-south. The Bab-es-Sharqi/Midhat-Pasha-Souk road runs east-west which was the usual alignment of the decumanus. --Kipala 13:41, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Downtown Damascus

Asabbagh you are employing weak English when you say Downtown "of" Damascus, the "of" is not necessary and redundant. Now, your use of the word "of" in between these words is confusing considereing that you claim you're a Canadian from Syrian origins. Wherever you go in Canada and the US, you always hear and read, Downtown Montreal, Downtown New York, Downtown Boston. Asabbagh please educate yourself...I appreciate your work...but you're supposed to be improving the language not the opposite. go check out this dictionary link

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/downtown

Notice the dictionary link says "Downtown Manhattan" NOT "Downtown "of" Manhattan" 132.205.103.171 19:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey, yea I meant to do what you did, someone changed it earlier, adding the of, and I thought I was taking it out by my revert. It was late and I didn't notice that I was doing the opposite of what I intended to do. I tend to do that sometimes.... Thanks for the link, I won't be needing it though. Asabbagh 06:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures are all free license now

All pictures in this article have now been checked to insure that they are free license and do not have any copyright restrictions. Please ensure that any pictures you add or edit in the future, conform to some form of free license agreement, thanks. Haxxor23 14:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal: An 'Eschatology' section

I am proposing that an 'Eschatology' section be added. I had added it but then decided that this step might be considered vandalism by some so I undid my edit. I do feel, however, that since Damascus is mentioned in Biblical Prophecy (Eschatology) that any reader would be interested in seeing at least one reference mentioned in the Bible and how it relates to unfolding events today. Below is at least one link to an article that I had just read; which link comes from 'RaptureReady.com'

  • [3] Prophesied destruction of Damascus imminent? by Hal Lindsay.

Below is the scripture reference taken from the New International Version:

Isaiah 17-9: "An oracle concerning Damascus: "See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins. The cities of Aroer will be deserted and left to flocks, which will lie down, with no one to make them afraid. The fortified city will disappear from Ephraim, and royal power from Damascus; the remnant of Aram will be like the glory of the Israelites," declares the LORD Almighty. "In that day the glory of Jacob will fade; the fat of his body will waste away. It will be as when a reaper gathers the standing grain and harvests the grain with his arm — as when a man gleans heads of grain in the Valley of Rephaim. Yet some gleanings will remain, as when an olive tree is beaten, leaving two or three olives on the topmost branches, four or five on the fruitful boughs," declares the LORD, the God of Israel. In that day men will look to their Maker and turn their eyes to the Holy One of Israel. They will not look to the altars, the work of their hands, and they will have no regard for the Asherah poles and the incense altars their fingers have made. In that day their strong cities, which they left because of the Israelites, will be like places abandoned to thickets and undergrowth. And all will be desolation."