Talk:Dalton McGuinty

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-02-11. The result of the discussion was Speedy Keep.

Contents

[edit] Introduction

I have removed the section calling McGuinty a moderate fiscal conservative. I have called him a tax and spend liberal. This is not bias, it is the truth. I have used an article quoting budget FACTS about Dalton McGuinty by the non-partisan Canadian Taxpayers Federation as a reference. If anyone wishes to change this I would ask that they find a economic thinktank to back up any claim of being a fiscal conservative and not an article by a partisan newspaper like the Toronto Star. It is important this bio remain factual and balanced. John P--99.233.244.167 16:32, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

   Oh wow, that is not biased at all, what are you? Harper's girlfriend?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Azprint (talk • contribs) 19:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy

Someone has put up a section of a controversy of "broken promises". While it has been a campaign theme used by the opposition parties, it is quite unneccessary to put that section as the first line of his page as it is not really a controversy. A controversy is more like a politician cutting taxes an industry that he privately owns businesses in. It should be noted that this "controversy" is not recent and the issues mentioned happened in a 4 year timespan, and quite conveniently added before a provincial election.


It says his brother is the mpp for ottawa south, yet at the bottom of the page it states he is the current mpp???????

No, it says his brother is the MP (federal parliament) for Ottawa South. Dalton is the MPP (provincial parliament). └ OzLawyer / talk ┐


This is a very fine document in many ways. The details are, for the most part presented clearly and I basically really like it. Just a few comments; however, regarding typos and clarifying statements: -the word "resignation" reverses the 'i' and the 'g' -the statement 'class size' should mention that it has to do with schools because international readers might not understand what you're refering to -the 'budget in an auto parts plant' is also ambiguous for those who didn't previously know about this. I suggest adding the word 'presentation' after budget or'was presented.' Perhaps a brief statement (in brackets) telling why this location was unsuitable will give readers a glimpse of what type of government was in place before McGuinty rose to power. Here again, this will give international readers and Canadians outside of Ontario a clearer picture.

Thanks for the terrific info.

Mary Dempster

The tax hike controversy is already discussed in the "First year in office" section in a more even-handed way. The section that the anon editor is adding repeatedly does not conform to WP:NPOV, and repeats what appears elsewhere in the article. It is contentious and not needed. And yes, the fact that it is being added during the election period indicates that someone is trying to promote a political agenda. Ground Zero | t 21:28, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

This is a legitimate current issue pertaining to Mr. McGuinty and it is controversial since he uses ignorance of the deficit as his sole line of defence for promise breaking when evidence clearly indicates otherwise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.6.102.57 (talk) 21:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

This definition of controversial comes straight out of Oxford English dictionary:

  Subject to controversy; open to discussion; debatable, questionable; disputed.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.6.102.57 (talk) 21:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

The point I'm making is that your "controversy" section does not met Wikipedia standards. It violates Wikipedia policy on maintaining a "neutral point of view":

  • it presents a lop-sided view of the facts in order to make an argument,
  • it contains original research (the part about presuming what McGuinty knew,
  • it gives undue emphasis to this issue over all other -- the rest of McGuinty's successes and failures are covered in chronological sections, while this is singled out.

Also, the section header you gave it violates the Wikipedia Style Guide.

I have moved the new sourced information that you added to the "first year" section and made it more factual and less argumentative in order to address these issues. I have also reorganized the discussion here to follow the Wikipedia style -- add comments to the bottom of a section on the talk page instead of creating new sections at the top. This makes it easier for other people to follow the discussion. thanks. Ground Zero | t 22:28, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I can live with this. Thanks for all your work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.6.102.57 (talk) 22:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I have added some information on Mcguinty's bio. Currently this read as a promo for Dalton McGuinty. It is not neutral. The information I have added is factual for it meets wikipedia's standards. If you require proof of the tax increase being the largest in Ontario history I will provide it. The Ontario Taxpayer Federation has which is a non partisan has been vocal about McGunity's tax increases and his spending thus he meets the definition of a tax and spend liberal not a fiscal conservative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.114.5 (talk) 17:40, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Terri McGuinty

In most cases the maiden name is indicated instead of the married name! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Realityhit (talk • contribs) 14:05, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Does Terri McGuinty need her own article? I don't think she is notable enough to have her own but should just re-direct here. Any one disagree? --YUL89YYZ 01:57, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

The article contains both double-speak.


On social issues, McGuinty holds progressive views. He supports abortion rights, although he is personally pro-life.

McGuinty is generally regarded as a moderate fiscal conservative.

McGuinty undertook a series of well-choreographed events, including signing a taxpayer's protection pledge not to raise taxes...

How can one be support abortion rights and be pro-life at the same time. Mr. McGuinty has certainly proven that he supports abortion rights, as Ontario tax dollars are currently being used to kill unborn human babies in the womb of their mother.

nice NPOV comment there, anon. 24.57.195.9 23:03, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Mr. McGuinty's record as a moderate fiscal conservative is also dubious. So far he has run two deficits in a row, and he has raised taxes despite his promise not to raise taxes. Richmondrk 02:52, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the NPOV notice -- the above comments are not sufficient grounds for its retention. CJCurrie 03:24, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
It's quite possible to put the wishes of one's constituents above the personal feelings held by a politician. What's unfortunate is that this doesn't happen more often. --Kickstart70-T-C 17:46, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
While I agree that Mr. McGuinty is a moderate fiscal conservative, I think this statement needs a citation. The Toronto Star recently called him (and John Tory) a "shrewd Bill Davis-style fiscal conservative of convenience" [1], but I'd like to find something a little less tongue-in-cheek. -- Gaius Octavius | Talk 22:07, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose merger (re: kitten-eating reptile). We've already been through this. CJCurrie 01:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
The real discussion is happening over at the other page. In any case, I see an AfD, which rightly failed as this is good content, but no signs of a previous merge proposal, so this has not been completely covered before. --Kickstart70-T-C 16:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the section calling McGuinty a moderate fiscal conservative. I have called him a tax and spend liberal. This is bias, it is the truth. I have used an article quoting budget FACTS about Dalton McGuinty by the non-partisan Canadian Taxpayers Federation as a reference. If anyone wishes to change this I would ask that they find a economic thinktank to back up any claim of being a fiscal conservative and not an article by a partisan newspaper like the Toronto Star. It is important this bio remain factual and balanced.[2] --69.158.114.5 17:57, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] McGuinty/Harper

Dalton McGuinty's nuanced comments on the 2007 budget are not prima facie evidence of a working relationship with Stephen Harper. Why GoldDragon continues to return this reference is a mystery to me. CJCurrie 21:42, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

There was no need to go the dubious route as I've modified the wording. Aside from that, why did CJCurrie make a big deal over "working relationship"? GoldDragon 14:57, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment

I have assessed this as B Class, given its amount of detail and organization, although it desperately needs more referencing and in-line citations. I have assessed this as mid importance, as I do feel that many people outside of Canada would be familiar with the subject of the article, although unlikely to have an in-depth understanding. Cheers, CP 23:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm curious as to why all other sitting First Ministers would not be given the same rating? --HJKeats 14:00, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Websites

If the page for Tory has his websites and that of the PC, I think the same should be done to Mcguinty and other leaders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.49.9.8 (talk) 21:24, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] proposed paragrafs

Its interesting to note that Dalton McGuinty is a Roman Catholic himself which could explain why he has nothing against status quo of Ontario education inequality. Canada's approach to religious education has sometimes been criticized as inconsistent. Catholic education public funding is mandated by various sections of the Constitution Act, 1867 and reaffirmed by Section Twenty-nine of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The United Nations Human Rights Commission declared in 1999 that Ontario was in violation of the international covenant on civil and political rights by only funding Catholic schools and not other faith-based schools. Newfoundland withdrew Catholic funding in 1996, via legislation that required approval from the Canadian House of Commons. Quebec abolished religious education funded by the state through the Education Act, 1998 which took effect on July 1st of that same year.


If such a act of Antisemitism and discrimination, against any other religion, is permissible for Dalton McGuinty the premier of the most populous province of Canada, how could Canada condemn other countries like Russia or China about human rights or religious freedom??? How could we force someone to listen to United Nations if we don’t listen??? Is Canada a good example??? There is no other western democratic country which violates the rights of its citizens just because they are minority and are not big percentage of electorate! John Tory was the only leader who maid a point to do something right and not just something that will help him to win an elections! here are the links:

here is the official un website saying it Decisions of the UN Human Rights Committee

and here is alink to wikepedia site saying the same thing (look under education)

and here is another one from wikepedia

and the fact that dalton mgcinty is a catholic you could see on this wikepidia site by his biografy what do you think Ntb613 06:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Related discussion can be found at WP:EAR. Adrian M. H. 11:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)