Talk:Dajjal

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Please Fix this contradiction!!!

From Wikipedia article: "He will be physically misshapen, and see everything only with his left eye. His right eye will be present but it will be dark (black) and he will be unable to see through it."

From http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/masdaj.html (linked from Wikipedia article) "Hadhrat Huzaifah (R.A.) says, Dajjal will be blind in his left eye. He will have very thick hair on his body and he will also have his own type of Jannat (Heaven) and Jahannam (Hell) with him: Although his Jannat will appear as Jannat, in reality it will be Jahannam and likewise though his Jahannam will appear to be Jahannam, in reality it will be Jannat. (Hadith: Muslim)"

I think you noticed the difference. First one states that right eye will be dark but second one says that he will be blind in his left eye.

please fix this as soon as possible!!!! --Atamyrat 22:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Dajjal is mentioned in the Quran. There is an entire sura (verse). The verse is about seeking protection against the Dajjal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IHusain (talk • contribs) 20:10, July 25, 2006 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Clean up of Talk page?

This page has become something of a dumping zone for strange ideological comments and rants in non-standard English. Is there anyway we clean up the Talk page? It should only be for how to better the article, not a place for expounding one's own religious interpretations... Sigil7 (talk) 11:30, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Neutrality?

This article reads like something the Muslim equivalent of a Jehova's Witness might hand out to readers. It looks like the entire section entitled "Protection from the Dajjal" needs deleting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.61.62.13 (talk • contribs) 16:52, July 16, 2006 (UTC)

[edit] It's What We Believe

For the clean-up you could just write that muslims believe the stuff there because, we do, I don't see you saying that stuff sounds fictious or dubious or conspiratorial on the other pages, the fact is that when it comes to pages about religons, the stuff on them is only really believed by the followers of that religon and most people of other religons read it to find out about common beliefs of that religon and don't actually think that they may take it seriously, although us muslims do. But I do agree that some of the information may need to be changed to reflect the more common beliefs of the followers of that religon, like when one website says something and another says another. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheDalek (talk • contribs) 15:37, July 26, 2006 (UTC)

The Story of Dajjal is actually not meant to be taken literally. Dajjal is the deciever and he controls the earth's resources much like a nation controls resources, and he rides a donkey much like an airforce. you see if back in Muhammed's (pbuh) time they would have said airplane no one would have understood.. Back then donkeys were a main part of the transportation so a donkey with huge ears moving as fast as the wind is the only way people back then would have understood an airplane. Dajjal's main way of communicating his deception to the masses will be the media. His blind eye may mean he cannot see the truth. When Dajjal has what he calls paradise and offers it to you, it is actually like earthly pleasures that he can give you but will lead to HELLFIRE. 71.172.17.32 08:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hadith

I think there should be hadith from Bukhari and Muslim and other books regarding Dajjal, rather than fancy stories from other people. TruthSpreaderTalk 06:23, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dajjal is the anti-christ of christianity

in the summary it says "He is similar to the Antichrist in Christianity" but according to Islam the Dajjal IS the anti-christ in Christianity. it doesn't say that they are similar. it says he IS. i don't have sources thats why i didn't change it.

)

[edit] Antichrist is in Quran too

Antichrist is mentioned in Quran but not by name , [7:175-176].

And recite (O Muhammad) to them the story of [him]to whom We gave Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations), but (peeled ,cast them aside), so Shaitan (Satan) followed him up, and he became of those who Cause to seduce With that knowledge We could have raised him to new heights, had We so wished. But he clung to the ground and yielded to his whims and wishes. His example is that of a dog! Whether you shoo him away or leave him alone, a dog will (always) stick out his tongue and pant. That is the similitude of those who reject Our (signs and) revelations. Keep relating to them these stories (faoqsusi alqasasa ); perchance they may reflect [007:175-176]


Some scholars say it is the false prophet named "Balaam " mentioned in the bible [book of Numbers 22] ,but that is the scholars point of views .The Fact is there is NO ONE Hadith of (Muhammad) himself says that Balaam exist, let alone reciting his story, knowing the fact that the verse Start with {And recite (O Muhammad) to them the story of [him]} an order to to keep telling them a bout him.86.147.252.83 13:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Dajjal = Cyclop?

Considering that Dajjal has one eye, does Dajjal actually appear to look like that of a Cyclop? --Fantastic4boy 06:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC).


The fourth Chief of Staff of the Israel Defense Forces (1953-1958) Moshe Dayan Has One eye..and the other one is off...DO you call someone like Moshe Dayan a Cyclop?..Dajjal is someone like Moshe Dayan..Has One Eye

Actually...If you look at the the Great seal of the United states.....you see the "one eye of the god " on the TOP of the Unfinished Pyramid , see also that one all seeing Eye of this god on the one Dollar bill paper.

Prophet muhammad PBUH said: You should know that the Antichrist is one-eyed, and LORD is not one-eyed."

This One eye God is the symbol of the Antichrist who claim himself to be the LORD.86.146.199.169 17:25, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dajjal's Donkey

It seems that all mention of Dajjal's mythical donkey has been gradually downplayed and, as of http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dajjal&oldid=100293328, has been completely eliminated from the article -- I would say that it's a pretty crucial element, embarrassing as it may be. The story is actually quite explicit in detail about this remarkable beast, whose ears span one mile, and is capable of traversing oceans with single steps. I feel that omitting this albeit humorous detail does a disservice to wikipedia. As funny as this backwards-ridden Superdonkey may sound, its omission reads to me as an attempt to lend false credence (for fear that anachronistic Islamic tradition will come off as absurd) to the prophecy of Dajjal, or Islam as a whole. -Etafly 10:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


Nothing embarrassing ..at all  ! Actually we should put this into the Dajjal Article, and see how is it related to Current present world state. We don’t talk about Dragons and 7 headed beast , little horn with eyes , whore of babylon , or even a bout a god that walk long walk and been defeated by man named Jacob after a wrestle... that continued all night long..and named himself lord jealous exodus 34:14....etc...as book of Daniel and book of revelation , or the bible keep talking about. ...We talk about facts

The Super donkeys are airplanes..like jumbo jets that are capable of traversing oceans with single steps, without stopping.

The beasts ears that span one mile.. are the Radars mesh mash with link satellites systems that spay across miles of lands.. from his single aircraft.

An example of this EAR is well manifested in system called ECHELON that describe a highly secretive world-wide signals intelligence system that hear your phone speech, read your e-mails and even see your daily activity through credit and bank cards social security numbers.. etc . see ..in another word total BIG -Dajjalic-anti brother anti christ control system . see this web site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Thank you very much...great Idea…we should add this too

81.153.30.157 17:41, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, lets not put speculation or unattributed information in there. That said, I think that inclusion of the donkey sounds like it could only improve the article, Etafly. Speaking of, can you recomend a good print hadith for someone interested in the folklore aspect of it? --mordicai. 19:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, all I can recommend is a google search. I originally learned of Dajjal and his extraordinary companion through stories I heard as a young muslim. It always aroused my curiosity as much as it tickled my ulnar nerve! -Etafly 04:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
81.153.30.157, If that's supposed to be sarcasm, it's lost on me. As stated above, his donkey is quite pertinent with regards to the lore. As also stated above, I'm voicing my concern at the removal of this information, and the intentions behind said removal. Also note that this article has nothing to do with Christianity or the Bible, not that equating the absurdities in Islam with the absurdities in another religion furthers Islam's legitimacy. Your point is taken -- Neither holds more water than the other. But please, I'll go insane if I have to suffer another "But the Christians did it too!" justification. If you hold your religion to the same standard as another (that you deem blasphemous, no less), and consistently fall back on it for justification, then you may as well join the other religion, right?
Anyway, if a reliable source can be obtained, it should be added. Perhaps if it expands into its own article, you can include the claim that the donkey is actually a Jumbo Jet that utilizes ECHELON - Providing, of course, that you can cite reliable secondary sources on the matter! -Etafly 04:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps I've been too hasty in rushing to assume the logic behind said removal. What are the chances that someone simply thought that this was vandalism? -Etafly 17:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etafly and the Super Donkey

First of all .....it is not an absurd article at all .... It is you whom clamed it to be absurd by quote and quote {As funny as this backwards-ridden Superdonkey may sound}… { Islamic tradition will come off as absurd) …and then you finished your comment by a conclusion quote { its ...lend false credence (for fear that anachronistic Islamic tradition will come off as absurd) to the prophecy of Dajjal, or Islam as a whole }.

With providing my explanation which it could be false since it is not a doctrine, I did not put the word "absurd" in my answer when I have mentioned the biblical stories

Secondly ...Although The False Christ ( Dajjal ) described in Quran ,as a Lier one ...his name in Hadith ...is defined as the Imposter Christ = Massseh al Dajjal, ..It is Important to know that...the story of the Donkey is not mentioned in the Holy Quran , it is in the traditions., and the traditions are not infallible could be subjected to the Textual criticism (depending on its relation to Quranic text ....if it contradict or comply with Quran,... and its Realtion to The Current Factual events that we see at Present Time...which in this peticular case Sound Alarmingly RIGHT and Valid...ECHELON..airplanes..the one eye of god in the dollar bill ..great seal of USA..etc..etc.).


However These Stories that I have quoted from the bible which you think to be “Absurdities” ..are not in Jewish Traditions ( Talmud ), BUT in The Sacred text of the Bible itself….it is a CORE belief Issue.

The Story of YHWH Elohim whom named himself to be Lord jealous Ex 34:14 and gave Mosses a peek at his "back parts." Exodus 33:23 was being beaten by man named Jacob in Gen32:22-28 is in the sacred text of Torah

The story of of 14400 virgin Israelites men whom only out of all Humanity will be redeemed rev 14 :4, have a seal of God on their foreheads rev 7:3



Thirdly ..........I do put Quran and Bible in to same standard when it comes to the cross examination texture test, however how valid the Jewsish and Christians answers are . These answers Have to be subjected to the Literal biblical texture and it is context, and see if they are valid or not..FIRST..and then relate them to the current events. In this respect I will ignore all forms of speculation and "hearsay" concerning either Books( including Quran), and instead focus on textually-hard and testable evidences, and linking the evidence together ...that is far more better..than going to Google looking for websites to see people's OWN point of view or a hear saying Fallacy regarding any subjects

And then .....Finaly ....you should ask the question … Why you should (or must) believe in the Qur’an. The same opportunity will be available to you to provide any convincing counter evidence as to ‘why I should believe in the Bible ?81.153.30.157 13:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

You seem to misunderstand what I've written. I never stated that the article was absurd. I said that the removal of dajjal's donkey from the article was orchestrated for fear that it may seem absurd. With regards to 'why you should believe in the Bible', I never told you to do so. I won't waste time repeating what I said -- The section I created above was for the purpose of reintegrating Dajjal's donkey into the article about Dajjal. This section, however, clearly has nothing to do with the article, and will serve no purpose to that end (Unless of course you're planning to integrate -me- into the article!). On that note, I shall close by saying that if you have anything to contribute to the article regarding this topic (Dajjal's Donkey), please do so. -Etafly 16:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Etafly

When I say article I mean the traditions that you made mockery of them and you applied that to whole Islam as abusrd faith..by saying { its ...lend false credence (for fear that anachronistic Islamic tradition will come off as absurd) to the prophecy of Dajjal, or Islam as a whole }.. That what I mean sorry for not making it Clear

These Traditions are Not Absurd .at all …and not "embarrassing" ..as you claim ...by saiyng I would say that it's a pretty crucial element, embarrassing as it may be ..They are Factual. …even being just traditions not Holy Quranic texts.. they are even more factual than these stories being told in the bible that because of them we have wars in Middle east..only just ..to justify the bible ...that iself has textual problems as i have showns to you before.


Since you have said ..“But the Christians did it too!" justification”...YES ..same as jews when it coms to story like jacob and god..….and the Jewish chronology that dates of the start of cosmos Creation from September 25 or March 29, 3760 BC....but are they Valid justifications?

I gave a suggestion method for testing all these "justification" ..if they are factual or Not ..that is by exposing them to the Literal biblical texts and compare them to testable Scientific evidences available.

Have to be subjected to the texture and it is context, and see if these "justification" are valid or not....and then relate them to the ...scientific physical facts/(current events if they are Prophecies).

This method should be applied to all faith or ideologies, and even Atheism But It is either all Faith and Ideologies ( atheism included) are WRONG…or just one of them is Right….and that is for you to examine.

I don’t justify Quran Credibility because of the fallacy of others…But I justify the Quran by the examining It and put it to the SAME standards and Scientific Scrutiny Criteria ( in regards to all subjects that Quran mention ) ..Same as I do to others ..be it Faith based texts or Atheist ideology Theories (like Evolution " , and there shall be NO Mercy ..either it past the test or Fail it.

217.44.222.210 18:01, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dajjal and 666 beast in the bible

Quran [006:112] Thus have We appointed unto every prophet an adversary - devils of humankind and jinn who inspire in one another plausible discourse through guile. If thy Lord willed, they would not do so; so leave them alone with their devising;

It means there are DEVILs among Human Race , and the Chief is the Antichrist (who is seed of serpent ...whom will be Crushed by seed of Woman who is Jesus As Gen3:15...and that what it meant by jesus when he said Before Abraham I am John 8:58..it means that he was Prophesized before Abraham existence)

The Other kind of the Devils are among the Jinn Race whom their Chief leader is ...Lucifer (Iblis the satan..the morning star Isa14:12..whom ironically and Falsely gave and attached this title the morning star to jesus in Rev22:16))

The two heads/leaders of the evils united together to plan and inspire each other plausible discourse and guile .

To explain this .....The Unfinished Pyramid in which the all seeing Eye of the Antichrist the Chief devil of Human Race on top of it, is just one side of another Reverse Pyramid of Lucifer(morning star) ( from the Jin kind) the unseen Chief Jinn devil(or the Satan).

These two Pyramids Joined together ( UNITED as it is Explained in Quran [6:112] ) ,to Form the SIX Pointed Star ……..Hence The six pointed Star is 6 Triangles 6 Heads 6 sides... which is the number of the beast (though in some text it is 616) mentioned in the bible. ..It could be true ..why Not ?.. ...that is just an explanation ..I am not saying its right.. since I don’t like the idea of linking Quran with the bible at all.

There is No one proof from Quran that Antichrist is an Israelite...Actually..there is a belief/HINT ..from Quran that Antichrist..been in EXISTANCE..since the time of Prophet Noah PBUH217.44.222.210 21:12, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation Significance?

Hey, hope I'm doing this right, I'm new to contributing to the 'pedia. Here's an issue I came across:

Top of the page, the article says "It is rather interesting to note the similarities between "Dajjal" and "Devil" when spoken."


Hunh? I don't see what that has got to do with anything. If they share some linguistics background, cool, that should be included, ut if it's just a "hey, these words rhyme, isn't that neat," which is what it reads like to me now, that doesn't seem encyclopedia-worthy.

JordanPhillips 05:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Classic WP:OR. Removed. -Etafly 05:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
The remote similarity in sound is not significant. Daǧǧāl would be a loan from Syriac daggālā 'false, deceitful,feigned'. (This is, BTW, the correct transliteration, I think, no deghala). The root DGL means 'to lie, pretend, be false'. The word devil, on the other hand ultimately derives from Greek diabolos 'the accuser, slanderer'. No relation there. --Simha (talk) 12:21, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dajjal is Antichrist?

I don't really think that the Antichrist of Christianity is the same or even similar to Dajjal. While both are said to come before Resurrection Day and bring trouble, the idea of Antichrist relies on being anti-Christ (as Christ is viewed as God and Messiah in Christianity), the enemy of Christ; Dajjal is not Antichrist in that he won't claim to be Jesus Christ, as Christ is not viewed in Islam as being God. Please correct me if I'm wrong. C-Cheat 16:35, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Though "Christ is not viewed in Islam as being God", the dajjal is the antichrist in Islam because (in Islam) the Dajjal will claim to be Christ (though islam says he is not) and will be an enemy of good and will be killed by Christ. The Dajjal & Antichrist seem to be similar but it is Christianity's & Islam's perception of Christ that differs.[[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 15:01, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Dajjal in Arabic (roughly) means liar or trickster. Some muslims believe that he will claim to be Jesus (PBUH) the son of mary (Christ) and in doing so, he is the Anti-Christ. User: cs1kh

[edit] External Link

One of the external links is to a site of rather poorly supported conjecture, some theories which to my knowledge have no popular, expert, or otherwise notable support, it is also filled with judenhaas. I'm removing it. S. Martin 04:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Out of Place Intro Paragraph

I made a quick edit of the page to remove a paragraph at the top (before the actual intro) that was very POV and, anti-semitic. I'm assuming whoever added the paragraph will put it back up at a later date and then flame me so this discussion post is my side of the argument in advance. Eno-Etile 00:31, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


Today’s dajjal fitna is combined of all previous Prophecies time fitnas and present Muslim peoples also adopted and emerged into those fitnas now they called this is part of life or secular life so who is first for Azab-e-Allah… kafir who were they already kafir or who were Muslims now they adopted kafir culture. Dajjal is fitna and big lair presently its in your home can you stop watching movies I don’t think so, can you be able to stop cheating each others only for one day I don’t think so, can you share your facilities to other poor brothers for one day nop can you put hajjab on your eyes for one day nop, can you stop thinking make more money nop, did you give the food to poor person last 30 days nop, so you are materialistic and you are under siege by dajjal who created this atmosphere for you and who interrupt them they will destroyed physically and also mentally, your brains economically siege by yahood economists because you are fare from Islam.

Dajjal has one eye to look world one eye not spiritual eye like satellite cameras, GPS, Radars and media they are dajjal predator eye, dajjal heaven his own place like his countries and systems they are look like peaceful places he called them heaven but actually they are traps and take you in hell because these countries law against Islamic rules and who will effected by dajjal like dajjal killed them those Muslims get shahadeth (shaheed) that dajjal called hell but its not hell peoples get shahadet.

Zulkarnan Allah Salaam said (Allah mention in Quran) Dajjal will appear that time when Iron and Copper will fly on earth surface and Yajuj and Majuj (Gog and Magog) will fight each others, Now this is the time all flying machines dependant on copper and iron with out these elements not possible to fly on earth surface even cannot move.

Communism and Christianity (Yajuj and Majuj ) collapse each others when they strength down than Islam sun will rise in whole world not with these present Molvies educations, there will be new system will rise that system only for poor peoples and they will crush the both Communism and Christianize systems then poor peoples faith convert into Islam and churches will convert into Masjjid (Mosques). I don’t believe present Molvies, Ulma and Umma but soon you will also don’t believe them just believe on Quran and read if you don’t understand read again and read again Allah give you the right path Allah most merciful, Allah give everything who request from Allah.

[edit] Gog and Magog

[edit] Yajuj and Majuj

[edit] Turkish "Deccal"

I was trying to find info on the Turkish "Deccal" very few sources on the web. (also happens to be the Turkish name for Neitzche's Antichrist). It can be difficult to find the arabic origin of Turkish words because of vowel and other phonetic changes. (very rarely does turkish have a double c). I created a redirect from Deccal to here. I was wondering if anyone was interested in putting this info Deccal = Dajjal in the article (maybe on top with the rest of the transliterations) ? Ygraber (talk) 20:13, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning of masīḥ

'Linguistically, the reason for his name being al-Masīḥ ad-Dajjāl is simply because masih is a title given to one who travels extensively to increase their influence in the world.' Since when does "masīḥ" mean that? According to Masih, it means "anointed one" (as its cognate forms in Hebrew and Aramaic do). 71.90.131.109 (talk) 05:10, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Depends on your sources & interpretations. From what I have read and learnt, he will claim to be Jesus (al-Masih) but he isnt (so he is a Dajjal - with all the other lies he makes) together that would be Al-Masih al-Dajjal!

[edit] Dajjal is not satan

This will be changed by me (a muslim). (according to Islam) Dajaal is not satan (Iblis), he is an evil person that will impersonate Jesus. According to Islam (which is what this page is to be based on) Dajaal & satan are 2 seperate entities.[[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 17:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Though I have changed it back (again), there seems to be someone that is changing the page to state that muslims say that the Dajjal is the Devil, when this is incorrect. (it may be the belief of some/minority of Muslims - but this belief is incorrect and is not the belief of Islam). [[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 12:10, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but this policy is clear that your opinion (point of view) is not a consideration here; even if it's entirely correct. What's required is that you provide a reference from a published source to state ANY opinion. Notwithstanding, your contribution could be better worded if you do provide a source. Just adding "incorrectly" is kind of a harassing phrase. Please find a source, and these views will not get reverted. If you are familiar with sources, this whole article could benefit from them. There's only two right now, and one's pointing to a website for the Hadith. This article is a mess, and someone could justifiably come along and cull everything in it that's unsourced; basically all of it save two sentences. Can you provide some of the references it needs and improve this? Baha'i Under the CovenantJeff 18:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Would (searching for &) stating a source from the Koran that states that (god states that) the devil is a enemy to all humans till the end of time. And since Hadith/muslims says/belives that Dajjal will be killed, shows that the 2 people cannot be the same? (as one dies while humans are alive and one dies after all humans!) be sufficient?
Anyway, your wording "some CLAIM the Dajjal is the devil" has improved it from the original which stated that muslims believe that the dajjal IS the devil [[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 08:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I have changed 'Incorrectly' to 'though this should not be the case', I am hoping that this is less harrasing a phrase?[[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 09:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

This page really is a mess, the closer one looks at it. It seems to be one entirely unsourced research paper. WP:OR is about what's called "original research", and is to be avoided in almost all circumstances. What you're proposing Cs1kh is just your own original research. The most ideal solution would be if there were secondary publications being provided where the author/research/scholar had made reference and comments like these ones. Simply providing links to a primary source like the Koran don't really fix anything, but they are an improvement. With religious interpretations the scriptural source is considered the "primary source", and its generally accepted that a "secondary source" provides the interpretations, and not the contributing editor (see WP:PSTS. It's great that you're going to help improve this article. Are you aware of any type of valid secondary sources? Baha'i Under the CovenantJeff 16:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I am trying to improve it and fix any obvious mistakes that I may find. I did not create the document, so I did not create the 'mess' that you claim (though I admit, I am not very good at creating pages myself).
Anyway, I have provided a source from the Koran that says that the devil has respite from death (by God) till humans are resurrected and I have provided a book reference that states a well known Muslim hadith that says that Jesus will kill the Dajjal. These 2 sources of information contradict each other if a Muslim believes that the Dajjal is the Devil but are clear in stating/implying that the two are separate beings.
- Remember, what I am stating is the Dajjal in Islam and not what other religions believe.
Regarding 'valid secondary sources', I am aware of books that state what I am claiming or state the two parts separately and so allow the person to deduce (the way that I have stated on the page) the information (but I dont know if they are classed as 'valid'! - they are printed books, but they are mostly printed in Arabic!)![[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 09:04, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe I accused you for the mess that is this page; I was just noting it's a mess. It has but one source, and very little content. Again, your contributions are not meeting any of the policies and guidelines which govern Wikipedia. Maybe you could familiarize yourself with the policies I provided links to on your talk page. Everything you're contributing is WP:OR. It has nothing to do with whether you're correct; contributions need to come from published verifiable sources and not from compiling verses you have hand picked from the Koran. Also, your section heading "Dajjal is not Satan", or derivitives thereof are not germane, as nothing in the article states that anyone believes he is. It makes no sense to state what Dajjal isn't, when nothing here says it is, see?

what I am trying to state is a common misunderstanding of what people think Muslims believe! As I have had people say that muslims believe that the Dajjal is the Devil, and when I said that that is incorrect (me being a Muslim), they would quote wikipedia directly as their evidence and state that Wikipedia's Dajjal page has heavier weighting than what I said muslims believe (though me speaking being muslim, reading the relevant books & speaking to Imams know what muslims believe) and that I should request that the page be changed if I think it is incorrect! [[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 09:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I would have cited your sources correctly for you, but I have no idea where to start with what you provided. See how to cite sources to get yourself in the ball park. Please don't begin to take anything personally. We can likely use what you've brought forward, but it has to come from a published source to use it; it can't be a compilation of your ideas. Baha'i Under the CovenantJeff 05:59, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Nothing personal taken, I also request that you dont take anything personally. I have undid your change BUT I removed my translations. What is left is a direct copy from a English/Arabic Koran, and another direct copy from the Major signs of Judgement Day book. Hopefully that should be OK? all I am doing now is quoting directly from 2 books and stating the obvious contradiction that occurs! I have read the WK:OR page but if what is left at the dajjal is not the devil section is still not allowed, then I cant work out how far the limits are on what people can conclude from evidence from quoted documents [[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 09:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, my basic understanding is that editors can't make any conclusions; this is an encyclopedia not a soapbox for ideas and conclusions (see WP:NOT). Conclusions regarding interpretations of religious texts and doctrines need come from secondary sources, as we cannot provide our own clever conclusions. The section title itself is original research, as nothing provided reaches the conclusion being offered. Just find an author who states Dajjal is not the Devil. Again, no one said Dajjal is the Devil, yet you opened the section with "Some Muslims believe (or people believe that Muslims believe) ...", and leave it uncited. Who believes this, exactly? Isn't there one published source that reaches the conclusions and connections you've derived? What's been offered is original research, so we should find a way to improve it. Baha'i Under the CovenantJeff 19:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
It is not a conclusion from personal research, I am a Muslim and I am trying to state the beliefs of (the majority of) Muslims. Muslims Believe that the Dajjal and the devil are 2 different/seperate beings. The Dajjal & devil are very rarely menioned in the same book because of the very different scenarios that is stated about each (it would be the equivalent for a book to have to say that Moses and Jesus are not the same). To state the very different scenarios of the Dajjal & Devil as direct quotes from 2 different books (without stating directly that they are different beings should be OK?). Regarding 'Who believes this, exactly?' have you ever used 'Answerbag? ("http://www.answerbag.co.uk/") go in (you can be anonymous) and type in the question "Who is Dajjal". when I wrote this for you, the question was still valid - select it when it appears. The Top answer states Dajjal is Devil, below his answer select 'Show all comments' and you will find that (one of) his source(s) is Wikipedia! - which is what I am trying to sort out! Anyway, Please note: I am not trying to annoy you and I am not trying to edit war with you! [[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 08:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

OK, I will provide 2 direct quotes from the same published book (Islamic dictionary definitions) of 'Dajjal' and 'Devil'. how I complete the section with a sentence that says Muslims dont believe the two are the same? I dont know? Any Ideas from you is more than welcome.[[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 09:48, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

I have placed some quotes from the Koran & 2 books, but I do not know how to make the small numbers (to create reference numbers), if anyone can change the text that states the source of infomation into proper proper references & numbers, that would be appreciated.

I would have cited your sources correctly for you, but I have no idea where to start with what you provided. See how to cite sources to get yourself in the ball park.Baha'i Under the CovenantJeff 06:00, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
Thankyou, the Difficulty was the full stop at the end that I kept missing![[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 10:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peshitta MSS evidence POST-DATES the Qur'an!

"The term al-Masīḥ ad-Dajjāl (Arabic for "the false messiah") is a literal translation of the Syriac term Mšīḥā Daggālā, which had been in the common vocabulary of the Middle East and adapted into the Arabic language 400 years prior to the Qur'an via the Peshitta (which uses that term instead of the Greek "Antichristos")"

This is nonsense which cites no references at all! All manuscript evidence of the Peshitta POST-DATES the manuscript evidence of the Qur'an. So on what basis does the author say that "Masih al-Dajjal" was adopted from Syriac? This Wiki entry is a mess and in serious need of cleanup in the article as well as the melee in the Talk section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.208.0.200 (talk) 02:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)