User talk:Dafoeberezin3494

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Contents 1 Thanks! 2 Welcome! 3 List of notable works by Vincent van Gogh 4 Your revamping of the "Composer" catagories 5 Thanks for the Van Gogh template 6 Composers 7 New Grove 8 VG 9 Machlis Book and my edits on these pages 10 Template talk:Vincent van Gogh 11 List of uncategorized composers 12 List of composers by name 13 Thanks 14 List of Romantic Composers 15 May I offer you 16 Jackson, MI 17 Wikiproject: Vital Articles 18 Germaine Tailleferre 19 Account & page deletions 20 RE: Talk page

[edit] Thanks!

Thanks for your work in merging Friedrich Seitz to Fritz Seitz...sorry I didn't realize there was already an article for him before I wrote that one! But you did a nice job, and I just wanted to thank you for that...and, since I see you haven't really been "welcomed" yet, here's an official one...although, it looks like you quite have the way of the wiki already! Best wishes, and thanks again! --ViolinGirl^♪ 21:44, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome!

WELCOME!! Hello, Dafoeberezin3494! I want to personally welcome you on behalf of the Wikipedia community. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you haven't already, you can put yourself in the new user log and the list of users so you can be properly introduced to everyone. Don't forget to be bold, and don't be afraid of hungry Wikipedians...there's a rule about not biting newcomers. Some other good links are the tutorial, how to edit a page, or if you're really stuck, see the help pages. Wikipedia is held up by Five Pillars...I recommend reading about them if you haven't already. Finally, it would be really helpful if you would sign your name on talk pages, so people can get back to you quickly. It's easy to do this by clicking the button (next to the one with the "W" crossed out) one from the end on the left. If that's confusing, or if you have any questions, feel free to drop me a ♪ at my talk page (by clicking the plus sign (+) next to the tab at the top that says "edit this page")...and again, welcome!

[edit] List of notable works by Vincent van Gogh

Hey, that was neat! Tyrenius

[edit] Your revamping of the "Composer" catagories

Hello. I've been noticing quite a few edits and deletions of certain catagories relating to composers. While there is certainly quite a bit of cleaning up to be done in these catagories, I've been noticing that some potentially useful catagories have been deleted. I've left a comment on the music portail noticeboard and am wondering if you might be able to react to what I've left there : [[1] ] Thanks in advance. Cordially Musikfabrik 20:53, 12 August 2006 (UTC)--ViolinGirl^♪ 21:44, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the Van Gogh template

Nice work! Thanks. Stumps 17:20, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Highly welcome, really great! --RPD 17:41, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Composers

Regarding your response :

• If your goal with this revamping of the whole "composers" genre is to make one neat list, I'm afraid that this is completely unrealistic. If you're eliminating lists now, they're going to eventually be needed when all of the people who have articles are finally on the site. These catagories WILL have to be established at some point, so they should be here to be used. Eventually this combined page is going to turn into a huge monster, and probably sooner than you think.
• Whether or not the list of composers whose names start with "S" should have been deleted or not is not the problem from my vantage point. What I'm seeing is that the useful structure that was here is now being taken out and that the structure being put in place will soon be even worse than it was before. I'm wondering if you might consider discussing this with the "composers" project at [[2]] before you do all of this editing, since it appears that a lot of things are being decided there which go against what you're doing here, at least as I've read the discussion. I noticed that you weren't part of this project, but since you're working on the same thing, you might perhaps want to run these things by them first, since they're doing the same things...They might even appreciate some of your ideas.
• There are no ways of completely avoiding POV issues in dealing with any aspects of anything really, but the whole idea of encylpedic thought, according to the French 18th century tradition (Diderot and Voltaire etc) was to avoid making hierarchies and saying that "X is better than Y". An encylopedia just presents the fact, without making judgements about whether they are good or not. The idea of making levels goes against the whole point of an encylopedia in the first place, at least as the idea was intended by the people who first came up with the idea.
• I dug out my orchestral score of Peer Gynt Suite No. 1 which I've conducted many times before and my edition just says "Morgan" which means "Morning" in English. I've noticed that this title has been used before, but perhaps it's only this edition. It's a fairly reliable German edition, however.....
• I'm happy to see that Category:Zarzuela composers was not deleted. That would have been a pity.

cordially Musikfabrik 20:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• The small lists are small not because there isn't anything to be put there : there ARE composers in every country of the world who deserve articles. I could make a list of important composers from Azerbaidjan and double the length of your page (with the corresponding articles) in just a few days. This would make it appear that there are more composers in Azerbaidjan than in Germany (actually, these days, that's probably true....) and would appear to create a hierarchy where none exists. Is this what you're trying to do?
• The "information nuggets", from my point of view, do hurt things because they only give people what they're expecting to see. An encylopedia should not just tell people what they already know: it should tell people something about what's there. The whole point of the Encyclopédistes in 18th century France was that the Church and the State had build up an entire artificial structure which explained the Universe. The objective of the Encyclopédistes was to try to describe the contents of the Universe, but outside of this imposed structure. The "information nuggets" impose the structure which people expect to see.
• However, if you turn your logic around, saying that these items "don't hurt"....couldn't you say the same thing about the pages that you're trying to delete, such as "List of Irish Composers"? It's true that they don't help, but they don't hurt either...Cordially Musikfabrik 08:58, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Grove

Since you asked, here is the link to the New Grove online dictionary. [3]. You can probably consult it for free at the University of Michigan Library. Cordially Musikfabrik 23:44, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VG

Stumps is also an active contributor to VG. I'm mainly doing style tidying now.

Re. Notable works. Hmm. How does one get citations for these. I dare say there are books that state it. OK, at first inspection, works that I think don't belong are Falling Autumn Leaves, L'Allée des Alyscamps, Starry Night Over the Rhone, Portrait de l'artiste sans barbe (there are far more notable self portraits), Thatched Cottages by a Hill and Peasant Woman Against a Background of Wheat. They are not his real classics, reproduced as such in books, for example.

Some that are missing: Vincent's Chair with Pipe, Portrait of Pere Tanguy, Fishing Boats on the Shore at Saintes-Maries, Portrait of Joseph Roulin, La Berceuse, Self Portrait with Bandaged Ear and Pipe (Chicago), Self Portait with Bandage Ear (Courtauld Institute), Self Portrait (1889, Musee D'Orsay).

What do you reckon? Feel free to copy relevant portions to article talk page.

Tyrenius 04:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Machlis Book and my edits on these pages

I know this book: it's a textbook generally used to teach Music Appreciation classes for non-music majors in American Universities. It's very useful for that purpose, but it's not exactly "cutting edge" scholarship since it only provides basic information. There are many other books which go into these subjects with more depth, and a good basic resource which is the New Grove Dictionary. They generally ask the top scholars on each subject to write the articles and while it's not complete by any means, it's usually the best "basic" information out there and adds quite a bit of advanced information in quite a few subjects. I'm suggesting it because it should be easy to consult in a University setting.

• If you note on your nomination of "List of Romantic composers" as a featured list, someone else has picked up the POV issues as they are presented in the comments on these lists. Terms such as "the greatest", "the most significant", "the most important", and even "the first" (almost always impossible to prove) should be avoided in this context. The problem is that you create these terms on one list, and then you export them to many others. To be consistent, I was changing the POV statements which were on several lists. I was following your edits, trying to catch all of these. Since you're generating so many of these lists, all with the same POV issues, that this had to be addressed before it got out of hand....if it hasn't already.
• Please remember that none of these pages, other than personal pages and attached talk pages are the property of any one person. While there are examples of "selective" pages which are sucessful here, you will note (as is quite evident on the List of major opera composers if you have a look at the talk page), they are generally done as part of a group decision-making process in which all of the decisions are put to a vote by people participating on that page. What I perceive here is that you are generating the content of these lists using your own views on the subjects. While this is a valid expression of your own tastes, it's perhaps not ideal for an encylopedia.
• In the light of this, I really think that it would be a good idea for you to interact with the composers project that I mentioned to you earlier. I noticed that you added a few catagories to their structural list, but didn't see any introductions made. I believe that, in the long run, if your work here is to be successful, it has to be in the context of this sort of collegial decision-making process and not just arbitrary decisions made by one individual.
• Please do not perceive this as an attack on you personally. I'm simply trying to give you ideas for improving the quality of your work here. Musikfabrik 08:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template talk:Vincent van Gogh

I've started a discussion on the template. Would you be able to centre the orange title on the bottom two. It was always intended to be centred (which is best, as you pointed out), but I've just tried numerous code variations and still can't do it! Thanks. Tyrenius 01:14, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of uncategorized composers

I noticed that you were the one who originally merged this with List of composers. What was the reasoning behind this? I was just wondering, because I've now suggested splitting it off again, and don't want to go against whatever consensus was behind the merge. Rohirok 19:01, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

What do you think about splitting it out again, or moving it to a project page under List of composers? After all, it is a sort of project page which you are gradually working through to categorize composers.

I don't see the advantage of any sort of general and solely alphabetical list, even if the letters are split into separate lists. Making such a list would be a massive undertaking, especially if it is to include all those normally referred to as songwriters, and I believe such a list would qualify as an indiscriminate collection of information, which Wikipedia is not supposed to be. Rohirok 03:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of composers by name

Thank you for adding so many composers this list in just 24 hours. I appreciate that. I think that it's probably better that we not add "songwriters" until the RFC has been discussed by others, but please feel free to add your comments (negative or positive, as it's about finding consensus) to that section of the talk page. Cordially Musikfabrik 20:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

First year of music school at the school you're going to can get pretty intense. Don't forget to practice either! It's probably the only time in your life where you'll have time to put in long practice hours and that's where you build up your technique for later. Good luck! Musikfabrik 09:27, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Romantic Composers

I'm afraid I don't have a source as such, but if I might make a suggestion, why not just take a few standard books and encyclopedias about music or more general encyclopedias, read the sections on romantic composers, note down names mentioned in the articles/sections, then compare? It'd probably work. Adam Cuerden ^talk 15:06, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] May I offer you

		The Template Barnstar
		message RPD 23:19, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

for your Van Gogh template, with best wishes for your start in real life and the hope that you will be back, as soon as your time allows? --RPD 23:19, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jackson, MI

I'm not sure what an FA is as I'm a sporadic editor with little knowledge of all of the nuances and such of the site, but I thought I'd add the chart. Thanks. --Criticalthinker 01:58, 16 December 2006 (UTC) OK so why did you start the Jackson High Michigan Link?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joeyd3119 (talk • contribs) 01:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject: Vital Articles

What ever happened to your proposal to start the Vital Articles WikiProject? I feel like the point of the list is so that those articles can be brought up to featured status as quickly as possible. I would support such an endeavor if one got underway. -Selket ^Talk 00:00, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Germaine Tailleferre

Hello Dafoeberezin3494, as you edited the Category:Works_by_Germaine_Tailleferre, I would like to get your input on moving it to what I believe is the standard name. The discussion is here: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_May_8#Category:Works_by_Germaine_Tailleferre. Regards, gidonb 23:59, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Account & page deletions

In reply to your question on my talk page, see Wikipedia:Account_deletion#Deleting_your_account. I took care of deleting your sandbox for you. List of composers by nationality is the main article space and other users have contributed to it, so I see no reason for deleting it. Hope this helps, -- Infrogmation 00:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Talk page

No, it's not... I actually didn't use the conventional deletion method, but I'll get on deleting the talk pages too. :-) —[[Animum | talk]] 21:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Y Nuked —[[Animum | talk]] 22:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)